On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.
their ability to micro 2-3 different areas while macroing flawlessly.
this is an insane game bisu vs jaedong showing a first person view of bisu playing.
Is there the Jaedong POV?
Team Overklocked Gaming ! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
On May 08 2012 01:20 ppshchik wrote: MMA did say that Zero will do best in SC2 amongst all BW pros in an interview. Him as a former BW pro who doesn not following the "Flash" bandwagon means something. Zero must have a good understanding of SC2.
I doubt SC2 TvP and TvZ really reward Flash's turtling playstyle. Flash should play SC2 protoss so he can turtle til he has 3-3 voidray colossi or something
Way to dumb down one of the best Starcraft pros. if Zero was so damn good then why was he so mediocre in BW?
Because maybe he didn't have fast enough fingers? In BW, someone can know perfectly what to do in each situation, but still lose just because he isn't fast enough. That's also why Idra thinks Stork is going to be good at SC2, he doesn't have hands as fast as the younger ones, but he has a better understanding of the game.
On May 08 2012 01:20 ppshchik wrote: MMA did say that Zero will do best in SC2 amongst all BW pros in an interview. Him as a former BW pro who doesn not following the "Flash" bandwagon means something. Zero must have a good understanding of SC2.
I doubt SC2 TvP and TvZ really reward Flash's turtling playstyle. Flash should play SC2 protoss so he can turtle til he has 3-3 voidray colossi or something
Way to dumb down one of the best Starcraft pros. if Zero was so damn good then why was he so mediocre in BW?
Because maybe he didn't have fast enough fingers? In BW, someone can know perfectly what to do in each situation, but still lose just because he isn't fast enough. That's also why Idra thinks Stork is going to be good at SC2, he doesn't have hands as fast as the younger ones, but he has a better understanding of the game.
It's worth noting that Stork was still fucking amazing at BW.
On May 08 2012 01:20 ppshchik wrote: MMA did say that Zero will do best in SC2 amongst all BW pros in an interview. Him as a former BW pro who doesn not following the "Flash" bandwagon means something. Zero must have a good understanding of SC2.
I doubt SC2 TvP and TvZ really reward Flash's turtling playstyle. Flash should play SC2 protoss so he can turtle til he has 3-3 voidray colossi or something
Way to dumb down one of the best Starcraft pros. if Zero was so damn good then why was he so mediocre in BW?
Because maybe he didn't have fast enough fingers? In BW, someone can know perfectly what to do in each situation, but still lose just because he isn't fast enough. That's also why Idra thinks Stork is going to be good at SC2, he doesn't have hands as fast as the younger ones, but he has a better understanding of the game.
It's worth noting that Stork was still fucking amazing at BW.
On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.
their ability to micro 2-3 different areas while macroing flawlessly.
this is an insane game bisu vs jaedong showing a first person view of bisu playing.
Is there the Jaedong POV?
Just search for Jaedong fpvod on Youtube and you'll get a bunch. Also search for bnet attack here on TL and you have a whole thread with fpvods from progamers playing games vs randoms on the TV show bnet attack.
I like hockey.
Monasou United States. May 08 2012 02:32. Posts 218
On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.
their ability to micro 2-3 different areas while macroing flawlessly.
this is an insane game bisu vs jaedong showing a first person view of bisu playing.
This video is all the evidence I need to claim that BW pros are more talented than SC2 pros; unfortunately, the skill ceiling in sc2 might be a problem.
On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.
their ability to micro 2-3 different areas while macroing flawlessly.
this is an insane game bisu vs jaedong showing a first person view of bisu playing.
This video is all the evidence I need to claim that BW pros are more talented than SC2 pros; unfortunately, the skill ceiling in sc2 might be a problem.
(1) Disregarding 100s of pro player's skills, judging on 1 map: check (2) Questioning the skill ceiling of a rapidly developing 2-year old game which has not been reached yet: check (3) Calling SC2 noobish/a-movy/easy (choose other random discrimation) not checked
Congratulations, you are almost there. Continue on your path, and you, dear sir, pass the test and deserve to call yourself a true BW elitist!
On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.
their ability to micro 2-3 different areas while macroing flawlessly.
this is an insane game bisu vs jaedong showing a first person view of bisu playing.
This video is all the evidence I need to claim that BW pros are more talented than SC2 pros; unfortunately, the skill ceiling in sc2 might be a problem.
"Talented". They have played a stable game much longer. Their ability to micro so much, so well has been also aided by BW being slower than SC2. Aside from these details, yes, they truly are amazing and their consistency across the years is evidence that they have the skill to sit at the top of SC2 if they try hard enough.
slappy United States. May 08 2012 03:26. Posts 1257
On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.
their ability to micro 2-3 different areas while macroing flawlessly.
this is an insane game bisu vs jaedong showing a first person view of bisu playing.
This video is all the evidence I need to claim that BW pros are more talented than SC2 pros; unfortunately, the skill ceiling in sc2 might be a problem.
I think he's trolling, and I think he's the reason sc2 fans think BW fans are bashing sc2 (because sc2 fans are trolling each other) *sigh*
jaedong imba
sluggaslamoo Australia. May 08 2012 03:28. Posts 3496
On May 08 2012 01:20 ppshchik wrote: MMA did say that Zero will do best in SC2 amongst all BW pros in an interview. Him as a former BW pro who doesn not following the "Flash" bandwagon means something. Zero must have a good understanding of SC2.
I doubt SC2 TvP and TvZ really reward Flash's turtling playstyle. Flash should play SC2 protoss so he can turtle til he has 3-3 voidray colossi or something
Way to dumb down one of the best Starcraft pros. if Zero was so damn good then why was he so mediocre in BW?
Because maybe he didn't have fast enough fingers? In BW, someone can know perfectly what to do in each situation, but still lose just because he isn't fast enough. That's also why Idra thinks Stork is going to be good at SC2, he doesn't have hands as fast as the younger ones, but he has a better understanding of the game.
Yep both Stork and Savior were incapable of being good at Starcraft because they only had 200apm.
Oh wait weren't they the fucking most consistent and dominating players of all time?
Also the irony is that much of Savior's success was due to abusing the highly mechanical aspects of the game, even though he had one of the lowest APMs in the league.
As it appears at first glance, this situation is one of the most inexplicable mysteries of any finals. How could Nada let three lurkers devastate his only army and not react for 9 seconds!? Lack of scan energy is also not valid explanation as Nada would have stimmed and organized his units first. Pressure is not valid as Nada is the definition of clutch. No, Nada had not reacted at all. Why?
The cause.
The important point to notice is the exact timing of Savior's actions. He moves the 3 lurkers in attack range half a second before his muta/ling backstab comes into vision at Nada's natural.
The only plausible interpretation of the above sequence is that Nada was so surprised at Savior's backstab that it did not even come to mind that his army could be attacked during this time. Nada clearly reacted immediately to the backstab, pulling SCVs to surround the bunker. Yet normally Nada could have defended and macroed and we would never have noticed he wasn't moving his main army. Nada must have been so distracted that he did not even move his army forward to siege Savior's natural, much less do anything else. It wasn't that Nada was overrun by necessary tasks for 9 seconds; he had completely forgotten about his main army in the face of immediate and unexpected danger. Nada quit multitasking and focused all of his efforts on defending his base for those key seconds. A horrific mistake to be sure, but then again, no opponent ever played Savior and did not make glaring forced errors.
Why else would Savior potentially suicide 3 crucial lurkers at that exact timing if not in anticipation of the events that followed?
On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.
their ability to micro 2-3 different areas while macroing flawlessly.
this is an insane game bisu vs jaedong showing a first person view of bisu playing.
Is there the Jaedong POV?
Just search for Jaedong fpvod on Youtube and you'll get a bunch. Also search for bnet attack here on TL and you have a whole thread with fpvods from progamers playing games vs randoms on the TV show bnet attack.
BNet attack isn't really a good example because its progamers smurfing, ShowMeTheMSL is a lot better because they are fpvods of proleague games.
Last edit: 2012-05-08 03:35:20
BW: Slugger[wOk] feel free to add | No Tidehunter
LTLgnuoy00 United States. May 08 2012 03:39. Posts 50
[QUOTE]On May 08 2012 01:38 YoiChiBow wrote: [QUOTE]On May 08 2012 01:30 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: Really excited, that Flash will play SC2 (no pun against BW, it is a really great game), but what exactly made / makes him the best in BW? I don't really follow the BW scene, but would be really interested what made / makes all the A-Pros the best of the best. So what made / makes Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and whoever is one of the best in BW the best? Brutal mechanics? Sharp decision-making? And how will it be transferable to SC2? Honest question here.[/QUOTE]
I think this question has been asked before in one of the bw forum... i can't find it. i remember one guy answering rather cleverly that if s/he was playing jaedong s/he would be scared to move out because s/he would know that jaedong would be able to attack him anywhere... as for playing bisu s/he would be annoyed because bisu is known for harass and he would sometime micro 4-5 place all around the map at the same time... flash is just flash and he'd win inevitably...
however, to answer your question more directly.... i've always seen flash as having a very deep understanding of trends... he's great at mind games and trying new things.... i honestly believe that when he was known as the "cheddar terran" that was just him asking "why CAN'T you win like this?" he challenges conventions which is why everyone has been following him ever since he started dominating.... his apm is nothing special but he is so precise and can pull of any build with unmatched efficiency....
i think that given time, he will be able to do very well in SC2.... that said, i think there is a big difference between SC2 and the current pro bw scene in korea... i don't know much about the SC2 scene but from what i've seen, i've seen so many pros open about their strategies and many of them stream.... i don't know how many current bw pros feel about this.....
So much on my mind that I can't recline, blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine
TSBspartacus England. May 08 2012 03:59. Posts 850
On May 08 2012 01:20 ppshchik wrote: MMA did say that Zero will do best in SC2 amongst all BW pros in an interview. Him as a former BW pro who doesn not following the "Flash" bandwagon means something. Zero must have a good understanding of SC2.
I doubt SC2 TvP and TvZ really reward Flash's turtling playstyle. Flash should play SC2 protoss so he can turtle til he has 3-3 voidray colossi or something
Turtly?
Standard response to 2 hatch lurker: OH SHI-, 2 bunkers, ebay, turrets, save scans and range upgrade or siege mode.
On May 08 2012 01:20 ppshchik wrote: MMA did say that Zero will do best in SC2 amongst all BW pros in an interview. Him as a former BW pro who doesn not following the "Flash" bandwagon means something. Zero must have a good understanding of SC2.
I doubt SC2 TvP and TvZ really reward Flash's turtling playstyle. Flash should play SC2 protoss so he can turtle til he has 3-3 voidray colossi or something
Way to dumb down one of the best Starcraft pros. if Zero was so damn good then why was he so mediocre in BW?
Since when was Zero mediocre at BW? He's an S class player and can beat anyone in the world and has. I don't call that mediocre
Zero only really has close to S-class TvZ, and he was completely outclassed by Flash who was on painkillers at the time and didn't even bother to use vessels.
Maybe you've missed Zero shiting countless time on protoss players such as Bisu and Stork to claim that only his ZvT is close to S - class . Zero only real weakness has been nerves . Thats why he has done poorly mainly in ZvZ when you need to have the nerves of steel . At his best his game is close to what Jaedong's was in his prime . Not to mention that he rarely ever uses cheese strategy to try and snap out an easier win . Flash beat Zero , because he is Flash and the no vessel use was actually what won him the series . He would have had harder time if he played more standart .
Last edit: 2012-05-08 04:27:59
"For the progamer of today and ad infinitum, there will always be the ceiling that is Ma Jae-Yoon. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair" -Xxio
setzer United States. May 08 2012 04:25. Posts 3271
People shouldn't expect too much until Oct. when Proleague is going full SC2. Double for the people still currently in the OSL who have to practice for that, Proleague maps and SC2.
FlyingDike United States. May 08 2012 02:50. Posts 221
TSBspartacus England. May 08 2012 03:59. Posts 850
