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| _Darwin_ United States. May 01 2012 13:12. Posts 2227 | Profile # |
On April 30 2012 18:55 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Basically, the only way I lose in this matchup with this strategy, is if I play someone who is 647 times better than me and literally never misses a macro mechanic.
YES ANOTHER UNBEATABLE STRATEGY VIA TEAMLIQUID
IM GOIN TO MLG, THEN IPL, THEN GSL, PYAAAAOOOOOOOOOH
User was warned for this post |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 13:18. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 13:12 _Darwin_ wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 18:55 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Basically, the only way I lose in this matchup with this strategy, is if I play someone who is 647 times better than me and literally never misses a macro mechanic.
YES ANOTHER UNBEATABLE STRATEGY VIA TEAMLIQUID IM GOIN TO MLG, THEN IPL, THEN GSL, PYAAAAOOOOOOOOOH
This is not funny. I never said the strategy was unbeatable, I said I only lose to much better players, and not because there is a skill ceiling with the composition or micro that I can find, but simply because I am too slow and my macro is much much worse than my opponents. This means I think it's a pretty good strategy, worth exploring, and worth improving upon so I came to this community to share my thoughts.
Thanks for treating my post and ideas with respect.Last edit: 2012-05-01 13:22:26 |
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| _Darwin_ United States. May 01 2012 13:24. Posts 2227 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 13:18 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 13:12 _Darwin_ wrote:
On April 30 2012 18:55 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Basically, the only way I lose in this matchup with this strategy, is if I play someone who is 647 times better than me and literally never misses a macro mechanic.
YES ANOTHER UNBEATABLE STRATEGY VIA TEAMLIQUID IM GOIN TO MLG, THEN IPL, THEN GSL, PYAAAAOOOOOOOOOH
This is not funny. I never said the strategy was unbeatable, I said I only lose to much better players, and not because there is a skill ceiling with the composition or micro that I can find, but simply because I am too slow and my macro is much much worse than my opponents. This means I think it's a pretty good strategy, worth exploring, and worth improving upon so I came to this community to share my thoughts. Thanks for treating my post and ideas with respect.
Nah, you said you only lose if your opponent is over 500 times better than you and literally never misses a macro mechanic. It's like that "unstoppable" proxy rax thread. Tired of kids exaggerating about their builds. |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 13:33. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 13:24 _Darwin_ wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 13:18 Fogetaboudit wrote:
On May 01 2012 13:12 _Darwin_ wrote:
On April 30 2012 18:55 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Basically, the only way I lose in this matchup with this strategy, is if I play someone who is 647 times better than me and literally never misses a macro mechanic.
YES ANOTHER UNBEATABLE STRATEGY VIA TEAMLIQUID IM GOIN TO MLG, THEN IPL, THEN GSL, PYAAAAOOOOOOOOOH
This is not funny. I never said the strategy was unbeatable, I said I only lose to much better players, and not because there is a skill ceiling with the composition or micro that I can find, but simply because I am too slow and my macro is much much worse than my opponents. This means I think it's a pretty good strategy, worth exploring, and worth improving upon so I came to this community to share my thoughts. Thanks for treating my post and ideas with respect.
Nah, you said you only lose if your opponent is over 500 times better than you and literally never misses a macro mechanic. It's like that "unstoppable" proxy rax thread. Tired of kids exaggerating about their builds.
I'm, sorry if you were mislead and did not realize I was exaggerating.
First of all, the proxy rax is not unstoppable, however, I would argue it's very powerful, and unlike my build afaik it has a pretty clear skill ceiling, and stops working, where the players scout very small details and respond quickly and accurately to what they see. (11rax, SCV cuts, etc)
My build afaik does not have a skill ceiling that I have observed, mostly because I'm just not a good enough player to play the best zergs with it and see how it could be exploited.
In a climate where lots of Protoss are having trouble establishing their third I was thinking a strategy like this might be helpful for some people to explore, if you have a problem with this then feel free to go away.
Last edit: 2012-05-01 13:38:37 |
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| iokke United States. May 01 2012 13:44. Posts 692 | Profile Blog # |
Never mind him, not sure why he lashed out at you, if he had put any thought in the OP while reading instead of looking for something to nitpick about, im sure he wouldnt have posted that.
When reading your post I didnt think you were presenting us with unbeatable strat, it simply said at your level its very strong and you are looking for discussion about viability at higher levels. When I get a chance Ill be trying this as well, thanks. Always fun to mix it up & lookin forward to some blue responses. Last edit: 2012-05-01 13:46:34 |
| | Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie the f*** down. rerereredit.. I never get it right the 1st time |
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| MrLlama United States. May 01 2012 13:57. Posts 446 | Profile # |
midmasters zerg, I'd be willing to face you and try my best to take down your build.
PM me if interestedLast edit: 2012-05-01 13:57:20 |
| | www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos |
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 SpecFire United States. May 01 2012 14:09. Posts 1681 | Profile # |
Uhm.. wtf do you do if they build...
Corruptors?
Hydras?
This build just doesn't seem to work. |
| | •|SlayerS_MMA| • Ryung • Fin • Puzzle • |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 14:16. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 14:09 SpecFire wrote:
Uhm.. wtf do you do if they build...
Corruptors?
Hydras?
This build just doesn't seem to work.
?
This has obviously been asked and addressed. Infestor support is vital, otherwise your army is just better than pure corruptor or hydra, go play around in a unit tester if you don't believe me. And if the zerg has infestor tech you might not be able to win a strait fight but you can cleave through expos and recall against chain fungals, you can't really be broken anywhere that there are cannons.
On April 30 2012 22:24 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 22:17 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote:
there are more problems than chain fungals, mass infested terrans and hydra dps seems good vs mass vr, but anyway its worth trying out
In small numbers you are absolutely correct, but we are trying to max out with this army, kinda like how 10 marauders beats 5 tanks but 30 marauders loses to 15 tanks (I'm not Terran but you understand what I'm saying) Void rays in large numbers are just absurd, they literally counter Hydras when they are stacked, especially off creep and engaging near edges. Infested terrans actually get mostly sniped up during the hatching.
Last edit: 2012-05-01 14:25:44 |
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| phyren United States. May 01 2012 14:29. Posts 907 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 09:51 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 04:06 phyren wrote:
I have to go, so I won't write much. Still, I watched the first replay, and it proves nothing about the viability of this build. Your opponent went for a 2 base lings all in, and you blocked it.
Yes I'm aware this game is not that helpful, because of the ling all in, which is why I apologized in the OP. I just posted it mostly to show the composition (lol) the defense (cannons ftw) and the recalls and stuff. The second/ third replay is a much better game and shows the build against a normal econ.
what about the rest of my post? When do you get your gasses? your mothership? your third? Is it a standard timing or do you do something different based on your scouting? When do you add more stargate, get upgrades add a second cyber core, etc.? Can you be more specific then mass void rays and get a mothership? |
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| monk United States. May 01 2012 14:40. Posts 6824 | Profile Blog # |
| I don't think anyone has pointed out the biggest reason this shouldn't work. You can't take your 3rd when doing this build. Roach ling can can deny the 3rd base indefinitely since you have no gateway units. Even if you don't factor in burrow, this is a huge problem. |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 14:42. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 14:29 phyren wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 09:51 Fogetaboudit wrote:
On May 01 2012 04:06 phyren wrote:
I have to go, so I won't write much. Still, I watched the first replay, and it proves nothing about the viability of this build. Your opponent went for a 2 base lings all in, and you blocked it.
Yes I'm aware this game is not that helpful, because of the ling all in, which is why I apologized in the OP. I just posted it mostly to show the composition (lol) the defense (cannons ftw) and the recalls and stuff. The second/ third replay is a much better game and shows the build against a normal econ.
what about the rest of my post? When do you get your gasses? your mothership? your third? Is it a standard timing or do you do something different based on your scouting? When do you add more stargate, get upgrades add a second cyber core, etc.? Can you be more specific then mass void rays and get a mothership?
I think I've touched on all of these but the answers are scattered throughout the thread.
Gasses: as fast as possible without cutting into probe production, teching, or cannon safety.
Mothership: Lately I've been going 1 Stargate strait to Fleet Beacon, strait to MS. With constant VR production from the 1 Stargate and Start the mothership as soon as you can afford it.
After MS is started add second Stargate as soon as you can afford it, but never cut VRs.
Third: Not sure exactly, probably 12ish minutes depends on what you scout with your Void Rays poking around.
Adding stuff: After the third is stable, Add 2 more stargates, and a second core. |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 14:48. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 14:40 NrGmonk wrote:
I don't think anyone has pointed out the biggest reason this shouldn't work. You can't take your 3rd when doing this build. Roach ling can can deny the 3rd base indefinitely since you have no gateway units. Even if you don't factor in burrow, this is a huge problem.
How could roach ling deny the third, lol. Have you ever denied a third you couldn't see, protected by units you cant attack.
Detection is sometimes a problem, normally you have enough cannons to spook the zerg form doing a ton of burrowing but I could see a zerg sniping a few buildings and burrow moving into your main and sort of running around trying to cause damage. While you chase his speed roaches and try to throw up cannons to provide detection everywhere, lol. He can't unburrow and snipe because you've got a mothership, but he could burrow move somewhere else so it can get a little tricky... I've had some games like this but its very very rare.Last edit: 2012-05-01 14:53:23 |
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| monk United States. May 01 2012 14:56. Posts 6824 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 14:48 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 14:40 NrGmonk wrote:
I don't think anyone has pointed out the biggest reason this shouldn't work. You can't take your 3rd when doing this build. Roach ling can can deny the 3rd base indefinitely since you have no gateway units. Even if you don't factor in burrow, this is a huge problem.
How could roach ling deny the third, lol. Have you ever denied a third you couldn't see, protected by units you cant attack. Detection is sometimes a problem, normally you have enough cannons to spook the zerg form doing a ton of burrowing but I could see a zerg sniping a few buildings and burrow moving into your main and sort of running around trying to cause damage. While you chase his speed roaches and try to throw up cannons to provide detection everywhere, lol. He can't unburrow and snipe because you've got a mothership, but he could burrow move somewhere else so it can get a little tricky... I've had some games like this but its very very rare.
Max roach/ling and mass overseers while hitting 2 places at once. You won't have enough units/cannons to defend both and you can't have the mothership at both places. This is Stephano's response to double stargate. |
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| Zidane United States. May 01 2012 15:03. Posts 1511 | Profile Blog # |
| Technically voidrays can just snipe the overseers. If your 3rd is that much later that is. |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 15:06. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 14:56 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 14:48 Fogetaboudit wrote:
On May 01 2012 14:40 NrGmonk wrote:
I don't think anyone has pointed out the biggest reason this shouldn't work. You can't take your 3rd when doing this build. Roach ling can can deny the 3rd base indefinitely since you have no gateway units. Even if you don't factor in burrow, this is a huge problem.
How could roach ling deny the third, lol. Have you ever denied a third you couldn't see, protected by units you cant attack. Detection is sometimes a problem, normally you have enough cannons to spook the zerg form doing a ton of burrowing but I could see a zerg sniping a few buildings and burrow moving into your main and sort of running around trying to cause damage. While you chase his speed roaches and try to throw up cannons to provide detection everywhere, lol. He can't unburrow and snipe because you've got a mothership, but he could burrow move somewhere else so it can get a little tricky... I've had some games like this but its very very rare.
Max roach/ling and mass overseers while hitting 2 places at once. You won't have enough units/cannons to defend both and you can't have the mothership at both places. This is Stephano's response to double stargate.
Do you have any Vods of this? I would love to see this, and I'm pretty curious.
I've had to cancel my third before but honestly its not an end of world deal imho. The third is just going to go up, eventually, guaranteed. It's just a question of how early can you stabalize, everything, and how much damage have you taken. Because you are never trading your army, your army is snowballing and his is getting traded for some amount of damage.Last edit: 2012-05-01 15:07:33 |
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| monk United States. May 01 2012 15:09. Posts 6824 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 15:06 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 14:56 NrGmonk wrote:
On May 01 2012 14:48 Fogetaboudit wrote:
On May 01 2012 14:40 NrGmonk wrote:
I don't think anyone has pointed out the biggest reason this shouldn't work. You can't take your 3rd when doing this build. Roach ling can can deny the 3rd base indefinitely since you have no gateway units. Even if you don't factor in burrow, this is a huge problem.
How could roach ling deny the third, lol. Have you ever denied a third you couldn't see, protected by units you cant attack. Detection is sometimes a problem, normally you have enough cannons to spook the zerg form doing a ton of burrowing but I could see a zerg sniping a few buildings and burrow moving into your main and sort of running around trying to cause damage. While you chase his speed roaches and try to throw up cannons to provide detection everywhere, lol. He can't unburrow and snipe because you've got a mothership, but he could burrow move somewhere else so it can get a little tricky... I've had some games like this but its very very rare.
Max roach/ling and mass overseers while hitting 2 places at once. You won't have enough units/cannons to defend both and you can't have the mothership at both places. This is Stephano's response to double stargate.
Do you have any Vods of this? I would love to see this, and I'm pretty curious. I've had to cancel my third before but honestly its not an end of world deal imho. The third is just going to go up, eventually, guaranteed. It's just a question of how early can you stabalize, everything, and how much damage have you taken. Because you are never trading your army, your army is snowballing and his is getting traded for some amount of damage.
Nope, only seen it on his stream and also in interviews. |
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| Lafer United States. May 01 2012 15:18. Posts 112 | Profile # |
Do you have any replays of you losing to a push while taking a third at all, or does every Zerg you play try to come up with a composition to beat it and abandons the Stepaho style push?
I'm sorry if I sound odd asking for replays of losses, I just feel like I, along with many others, can learn a lot more about this build by seeing it beat. It just seems too easy, lol.
If you don't have a replay, maybe you can play a custom and have someone try to break it with the Stephano style? |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 15:31. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 15:18 Lafer wrote:
Do you have any replays of you losing to a push while taking a third at all, or does every Zerg you play try to come up with a composition to beat it and abandons the Stepaho style push?
I'm sorry if I sound odd asking for replays of losses, I just feel like I, along with many others, can learn a lot more about this build by seeing it beat. It just seems too easy, lol.
If you don't have a replay, maybe you can play a custom and have someone try to break it with the Stephano style?
Of course you don't sound odd asking for replays of losses. Unfortunately I dont have any replays from more than about 10 days ago. I think they autodelete? And I don't have that SC2 gears thing (lol noob)
I will continue to ladder toss though now in an attempt to get some more good replays for this thread, but my games lately are not that intersting because terran (and trying some new hotkey setups) tanked my MMR to high diamondish, and PvZ is pretty easy there. |
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| esaul17 Canada. May 01 2012 16:38. Posts 542 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 15:31 Fogetaboudit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 15:18 Lafer wrote:
Do you have any replays of you losing to a push while taking a third at all, or does every Zerg you play try to come up with a composition to beat it and abandons the Stepaho style push?
I'm sorry if I sound odd asking for replays of losses, I just feel like I, along with many others, can learn a lot more about this build by seeing it beat. It just seems too easy, lol.
If you don't have a replay, maybe you can play a custom and have someone try to break it with the Stephano style?
Of course you don't sound odd asking for replays of losses. Unfortunately I dont have any replays from more than about 10 days ago. I think they autodelete? And I don't have that SC2 gears thing (lol noob) I will continue to ladder toss though now in an attempt to get some more good replays for this thread, but my games lately are not that intersting because terran (and trying some new hotkey setups) tanked my MMR to high diamondish, and PvZ is pretty easy there.
A few masters Z asked to play you in this thread, why not give that a shot if your MMR is low. |
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| Fogetaboudit United States. May 01 2012 17:06. Posts 232 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 16:38 esaul17 wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 15:31 Fogetaboudit wrote:
On May 01 2012 15:18 Lafer wrote:
Do you have any replays of you losing to a push while taking a third at all, or does every Zerg you play try to come up with a composition to beat it and abandons the Stepaho style push?
I'm sorry if I sound odd asking for replays of losses, I just feel like I, along with many others, can learn a lot more about this build by seeing it beat. It just seems too easy, lol.
If you don't have a replay, maybe you can play a custom and have someone try to break it with the Stephano style?
Of course you don't sound odd asking for replays of losses. Unfortunately I dont have any replays from more than about 10 days ago. I think they autodelete? And I don't have that SC2 gears thing (lol noob) I will continue to ladder toss though now in an attempt to get some more good replays for this thread, but my games lately are not that intersting because terran (and trying some new hotkey setups) tanked my MMR to high diamondish, and PvZ is pretty easy there.
A few masters Z asked to play you in this thread, why not give that a shot if your MMR is low.
already did  I want to practice and figure it out.
Last edit: 2012-05-01 17:07:30 |
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