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| Mithhaike Singapore. May 06 2012 22:07. Posts 825 | Profile Blog # |
On May 06 2012 12:43 Mithhaike wrote:
Actually the maths point that their all about the same. Example 15% of $200 = 30.
2 x (15% of $100) = 30.
EDIT: In fact i think trying to cash out one big sum from Bnet acc to Paypal will incur larger losses. Its harder to convert a large sum without THE CHANCE of taking losses on the market to put into paypal.
If you sell every single item into Paypal, chances are you will get the full value of the items each time., instead of trying to offload a whole bunch of items to change ur accumulated Bnet balance into Paypal...offload a whole bunch of items/gold increases the chances you may have to take losses undercutting the others on the AH....or it may just take time.
i've decided to quote myself as a lot of you guys seems to be not seeing it. The maths point that if you want to cash out to paypal, the difference between one big payout vs multiple sales isn't that much. chances are you take a bigger hit trying to cash out the one big amount you've been accumulating offloading items/gold.
As for the fees, i dont get the whining here. We're basically earning money off a virtual item in a virtual game. You've paid 60USD for the game,this possibility of earning money was basically thrown in. So what if they get a cut? Your still using THEIR game to make money just by playing the game you've paid for.
With enough time, this game will quite possibly pay for itself....in other words its going to be free once u break even, anything else is just profits. Seriously....i dont get why people talk about 15% as money leeching apple corp like. Your still getting money from nothing to be honest.
Any other perspective of looking at this is just pure greed in my opinion.
You want full profits from something blizzard has put in time n effort negotiating with countries, time money and effort into creating...which your just using as a means to further ur own purposes? Whats wrong with them taking a cut? For your info, the fact that Bnet is free means this money actually helps to keep it free.
Infact i rather blizzard take the 15% cut rather than giving what 3%? 10%? to external 3rd party website who has no part in Diablo3 in the 1st place. Infact why should they even take a cut,according to those greedy people's reasoning. They only introduced me to the client! I can find clients myself!
See what i did there?
TLDR:
Maths say that multiple small auctions going straight into Paypal will incur lesser losses over time, compared to storing one big sum on bnet balance and then trying to convert into Paypal. Reasoning is in the self-quote
Whining about the 15% cut is just greed speaking. Get some perspective. Talking about using 3rd party website and taking a smaller cut etc....still greed. |
| | Due to the fact that xy will be in Japan on a holiday with his family, we have no plans as all hopes are lost. You can’t morph without having 5 power rangers.. - iceiceice on their chances of winning IG |
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| ToT)OjKa( United Kingdom. May 06 2012 22:25. Posts 2053 | Profile Blog # |
| But greed makes the world go round |
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| Skwid1g United States. May 06 2012 22:35. Posts 918 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 23:15 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Fee is fine, Blizzard are running a Blizzness not a Blizzharity. I know everyone feels they are entitled to make bucks for free but really.....Some of you are probably upset it RMAH doesn't come with a free hooker, 3 lines of coke and a car.
...? They're getting money from doing nothing either way, they're just making smaller items basically worthless to put on the RMAH. I'd rather a higher % but no (or smaller) flat fee tbh. |
| | NaDa/Fantasy/Zero/Soulkey pls |
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| Dralin Germany. May 06 2012 22:56. Posts 11 | Profile # |
tl-dr: When wanting to sell a item that costs more then the rmah limit, you will want to trade it item for item and not item for gold on the normal ah.
and then sell the smaller items on the rmah.
Example: (lets say 1 US$ = 1000 Gold for this example)
Selling a Windforce worth 1000 US$ for 1000k Gold you will get 1000k Gold *0.85 = 850k Gold (ah)
then selling the 850k Gold for 850 US$ you will get 850 US$ *0.85 = 722,5 US$ (rmah) [no need to split for this math because a*x+b*x = (a+b)*x]
after that if you chose the cashout option you will get 722,5 US$ * 0.85 = 614,125 US$ on your paypal
total for this method would be 61,4% of the price goes to you and 38,6% goes to blizzard
(if you trade the item for gold without the ah you get 1000 US$ * 0.85 * 0.85 = 722,5 US$ or 72,25% on your palpal (thats a 27,75% cut from blizzard)
When trading your Windforce for 4 SoJ worth 250 US$ you dont have to mess with the normal ah so that saves one layer of cuts.
then you sell your 4 SoJ on the rmah where you get 4 * (250 US$ - 1 US$) = 996 US$
cashing that money out to paypal you will get 996 US$ * 0.85 = 846,6 US$ on your paypal
total for this method would be 84,7% goes to you and 15,3% to blizzard
this difference is so big for high value items, that many will try to skip the ah and only use the rmah to sell high value items but not big amounts of gold, which promotes the use of "SoJ"-Items instead of gold (blizzard wants gold to be the main currency ingame)
so they set the system of fees up in a way that contradicts one of the stated goals
also i realy hope that there will be a simple trade screen (didnt find it on google / didnt think to look in the open beta, a link to something would be nice) or we will have to
- alway pay the extra 15% fee on the gold ah
- deal with the insane amount of scamming involved in trading by dropping the stuff to the groundLast edit: 2012-05-07 01:07:13 |
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| Count9 China. May 06 2012 23:18. Posts 3713 | Profile Blog # |
| Activison + marketing department strikes again. Yeah, the pricing model is completely retarded. It's been shown over and over and over again (mostly through facebook games) that you want to keep the min price low to have a very low bar of entry into spending real money. And once you're in you're willing to spend more and more. If the lowest price is $10, 1/6th of a full game, there's going to be substantially less money poured into the auction house and substantially more money into private auction sites. |
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| NotSorry United States. May 07 2012 00:15. Posts 5370 | Profile Blog # |
| Love how so many try to blame this solely on Activision and fanboiing that Blizzard has no part in all these terrible mistakes over the last 8-10years, like they arn't 2 dicks in the same asshole. There is only ActivisionBlizzard at least put the blame where the blame is due. |
| | We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell |
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| SiLeNtDeViL United States. May 07 2012 00:38. Posts 28 | Profile # |
Lets recover some points I made in my post, since it appears people are still quite unaware.
1st:
When trading your Windforce for 4 SoJ worth 250 US$ you dont have to mess with the normal ah so that saves one layer of cuts.then you sell your 4 SoJ on the rmah where you get 4 * (250 US$ - 1 US$) = 996 US$ in your bnet balance
cashing that money out to paypal you will get 996 US$ * 0.85 = 846,6 US$ on your paypal
total for this method would be 84,7% goes to you and 15,3% to blizzard
This is just wrong. You cannot convert your bnet balance to paypal, without going back through the auction house.
2nd:
i've decided to quote myself as a lot of you guys seems to be not seeing it. The maths point that if you want to cash out to paypal, the difference between one big payout vs multiple sales isn't that much. chances are you take a bigger hit trying to cash out the one big amount you've been accumulating offloading items/gold.
One big vs multiple smaller sales I agree with. But, sending it to paypal is only true if you never plan on buying. If you buy things, you will have already incurred the 15% fee, and then when you resell those items, you will incur it again. If you plan on working the market at all, buying things that are priced too low, selling them higher, then you'll want your balance in your battle.net account, so you don't keep getting the 15% fee. Then if you need some of the money, buy and sell something fairly constant, and have it then go to paypal. You might incur the 1$ fee more, but if we're talking about anything significant, that shouldn't be much of an issue.
On May 06 2012 07:10 SiLeNtDeViL wrote:I'd like to believe that you are right, but reading it again makes me think it's the other way around. If you’re auctioning your item in the real-money auction house, use the drop-down to choose how to receive the proceeds of your auction if it succeeds. Choosing Battle.net Balance will send the proceeds to Battle.net Balance on your Battle.net account, to be used on future real-money auction house purchases or select Blizzard Entertainment digital products on Battle.net. In certain regions, if a PayPal™ account is linked to your Battle.net account and you’ve enabled Mobile Alerts on your Battle.net account (see below), you can have the proceeds sent to your PayPal account (a 15% transfer fee applies if you choose this method, calculated based on the amount being transferred). For further details, check out the FAQ.http://us.battle.net/d3/en/services/auction-house/how-toCan I convert my Battle.net Balance into cash?
Any amount you add to your Battle.net Balance, either through an approved payment method or by adding Diablo III auction house earnings to your Battle.net Balance, will not be refundable (except as otherwise provided by law), and you are not able to convert that Balance into cash. Battle.net Balance can only be used to buy designated Blizzard Entertainment products and services or to acquire items from Diablo III's currency-based auction house. In certain regions, Diablo III players may choose to receive cash, rather than add to their Battle.net Balance, from the sale of an item from the currency-based auction house. Those players will be able to do so via PayPal for an additional fee. Players will need to determine which method they wish to use at the time they post their auction. For more information on the currency-based auction house, see the Auction House FAQ.http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/battle-net-balance-frequently-asked-questions-faq#q5
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| Dralin Germany. May 07 2012 01:03. Posts 11 | Profile # |
On May 07 2012 00:38 SiLeNtDeViL wrote:Lets recover some points I made in my post, since it appears people are still quite unaware. 1st:
Show nested quote + When trading your Windforce for 4 SoJ worth 250 US$ you dont have to mess with the normal ah so that saves one layer of cuts.then you sell your 4 SoJ on the rmah where you get 4 * (250 US$ - 1 US$) = 996 US$ in your bnet balance
cashing that money out to paypal you will get 996 US$ * 0.85 = 846,6 US$ on your paypal
total for this method would be 84,7% goes to you and 15,3% to blizzard
This is just wrong. You cannot convert your bnet balance to paypal, without going back through the auction house.
I was not aware that you need to chose cash out or bnet balance directly, but my point about fees still stands.
As the max bnet balance is 250 US$ you would need to chose cashout anyway, when selling expensive stuff like in the example.Last edit: 2012-05-07 01:19:13 |
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| Xapti Canada. May 07 2012 06:46. Posts 2211 | Profile # |
On May 06 2012 12:59 rezoacken wrote:
I'm surprised not more people cry about:
-The fact you cant cash out the [battle.net cash] balance
Oh I didn't know that until now. I didn't understand what you meant until I read the description.
This reminds me of forum gold — except decaying too (fees)? I guess forum gold decayed technically too, but only due to inflation, right? (I don't really know much about it). I guess there's a big difference in that you can make purchases to cash out, which FG doesn't allow (even though you can do it anyway).
On May 06 2012 12:59 rezoacken wrote:
-You need a mobile phone to cash out
WTF? that's ridiculous. Why?
On May 06 2012 22:07 Mithhaike wrote:
As for the fees, i dont get the whining here. We're basically earning money off a virtual item in a virtual game. You've paid 60USD for the game,this possibility of earning money was basically thrown in. So what if they get a cut? Your still using THEIR game to make money just by playing the game you've paid for.
With enough time, this game will quite possibly pay for itself....in other words its going to be free once u break even, anything else is just profits. Seriously....i dont get why people talk about 15% as money leeching apple corp like. Your still getting money from nothing to be honest.
Any other perspective of looking at this is just pure greed in my opinion.
Whining about the 15% cut is just greed speaking. Get some perspective. Talking about using 3rd party website and taking a smaller cut etc....still greed.
People wanting fair prices isn't greed. Making unfair prices is the greedy part. Complaining about the fees isn't greed talking, it's buyers and sellers and players in general talking. These buyers and sellers and players will just go somewhere else if the rates aren't reasonable, and it's not really greed, it's just not giving to someone who is being greedy. Is it greedy to not give money to bank robbers? is it greedy to not give money to the poor? Is it greedy to not give money to a company just because they ask to? That's what it sounds like you're saying.
Also, it's not just 15%. It's 15% plus 1USD (or more depending where you live), or 27.75%.Last edit: 2012-05-07 07:09:18 |
| | "Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!" |
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| dmfg United Kingdom. May 07 2012 08:32. Posts 566 | Profile # |
On May 07 2012 06:46 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 12:59 rezoacken wrote:
I'm surprised not more people cry about:
-The fact you cant cash out the [battle.net cash] balance
Oh I didn't know that until now. I didn't understand what you meant until I read the description. This reminds me of forum gold — except decaying too (fees)? I guess forum gold decayed technically too, but only due to inflation, right? (I don't really know much about it). I guess there's a big difference in that you can make purchases to cash out, which FG doesn't allow (even though you can do it anyway). WTF? that's ridiculous. Why?
Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 22:07 Mithhaike wrote:
As for the fees, i dont get the whining here. We're basically earning money off a virtual item in a virtual game. You've paid 60USD for the game,this possibility of earning money was basically thrown in. So what if they get a cut? Your still using THEIR game to make money just by playing the game you've paid for.
With enough time, this game will quite possibly pay for itself....in other words its going to be free once u break even, anything else is just profits. Seriously....i dont get why people talk about 15% as money leeching apple corp like. Your still getting money from nothing to be honest.
Any other perspective of looking at this is just pure greed in my opinion.
Whining about the 15% cut is just greed speaking. Get some perspective. Talking about using 3rd party website and taking a smaller cut etc....still greed.
People wanting fair prices isn't greed. Making unfair prices is the greedy part. Complaining about the fees isn't greed talking, it's buyers and sellers and players in general talking. These buyers and sellers and players will just go somewhere else if the rates aren't reasonable, and it's not really greed, it's just not giving to someone who is being greedy. Is it greedy to not give money to bank robbers? is it greedy to not give money to the poor? Is it greedy to not give money to a company just because they ask to? That's what it sounds like you're saying. Also, it's not just 15%. It's 15% plus 1USD (or more depending where you live), or 27.75%.
1. There's nothing about the RMAH cuts that is "unfair". On the contrary, they apply to everyone equally. They are the very definition of fair. It's not like Blizzard is trying selling their own items without any RMAH fee (which would be unfair).
2. If you don't like the fees then don't use it. But if you're trying to actually trying to make money by selling in any significant amount of volume, you will be hurting your own profit by not using it since you'll sell slowly and end up with a huge pile of inventory you just don't get enough customers to sell. This alone will show that the RMAH is mutually beneficial to both sellers and Blizzard.
There's nothing about the RMAH that will stifle money making in any way - only make it even easier, at the cost of a portion of your margin. All complaining is trying to do at this point is increase the margin further. That's greed to me. |
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| Mithhaike Singapore. May 07 2012 12:13. Posts 825 | Profile Blog # |
People wanting fair prices isn't greed. Making unfair prices is the greedy part. Complaining about the fees isn't greed talking, it's buyers and sellers and players in general talking. These buyers and sellers and players will just go somewhere else if the rates aren't reasonable, and it's not really greed, it's just not giving to someone who is being greedy. Is it greedy to not give money to bank robbers? is it greedy to not give money to the poor? Is it greedy to not give money to a company just because they ask to? That's what it sounds like you're saying.
Also, it's not just 15%. It's 15% plus 1USD (or more depending where you live), or 27.75%
Complaining about the fees is still greed. If you boil the reasons down to the core...basically you want more money of a virtual item. Wanting more money than what your going to get is called greed.
It isn't buyers/sellers/players talking in general.
I revert back to my point that without Blizzard creating the game/creating the RMAH in the 1st place....there wouldnt be any talk right now. I am fine with them taking 15%+1USD(or what 27.75%)... im still earning money off my virtual item thats found in a Blizzard game....and for free(minus off the $$ i paid for the game itself, i was willing to pay that amount for the game itself without the AH in the 1st place) Bnet is free.
Oh i agree with both points dmfg says  |
| | Due to the fact that xy will be in Japan on a holiday with his family, we have no plans as all hopes are lost. You can’t morph without having 5 power rangers.. - iceiceice on their chances of winning IG |
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| SoulWager United States. May 07 2012 13:19. Posts 461 | Profile # |
On May 07 2012 12:13 Mithhaike wrote:
Show nested quote +People wanting fair prices isn't greed. Making unfair prices is the greedy part. Complaining about the fees isn't greed talking, it's buyers and sellers and players in general talking. These buyers and sellers and players will just go somewhere else if the rates aren't reasonable, and it's not really greed, it's just not giving to someone who is being greedy. Is it greedy to not give money to bank robbers? is it greedy to not give money to the poor? Is it greedy to not give money to a company just because they ask to? That's what it sounds like you're saying.
Also, it's not just 15%. It's 15% plus 1USD (or more depending where you live), or 27.75%
Complaining about the fees is still greed. If you boil the reasons down to the core...basically you want more money of a virtual item. Wanting more money than what your going to get is called greed. It isn't buyers/sellers/players talking in general. I revert back to my point that without Blizzard creating the game/creating the RMAH in the 1st place....there wouldnt be any talk right now. I am fine with them taking 15%+1USD(or what 27.75%)... im still earning money off my virtual item thats found in a Blizzard game....and for free(minus off the $$ i paid for the game itself, i was willing to pay that amount for the game itself without the AH in the 1st place) Bnet is free. Oh i agree with both points dmfg says
So what if it's greed, it's a huge time investment farming those items. The auction fees far exceed the competition and cost of holding the auction.Last edit: 2012-05-07 13:26:13 |
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| noD May 07 2012 21:56. Posts 2122 | Profile Blog # |
This is a question
that site that ends with jsp (dunno if its permited to link) let u sell the goods of d2 with their gold
and there is an option to buy gold
but how do sellers get their gold to become real dollars ? |
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| SolHeiM Sweden. May 07 2012 22:20. Posts 1260 | Profile Blog # |
On May 07 2012 21:56 noD wrote:
This is a question
that site that ends with jsp (dunno if its permited to link) let u sell the goods of d2 with their gold
and there is an option to buy gold
but how do sellers get their gold to become real dollars ?
You can sell gold on the RMAH. What gold will be worth is unknown at this point, and impossible to speculate on because you don't know how much gold monsters will drop in Hell or Inferno. |
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| fighter2_40 United States. May 07 2012 22:45. Posts 366 | Profile Blog # |
No taxation without rep.
Tristram tee party?
Also, if anybody has taken economics... d3's system where you can easily look for all sales at once of a particular item means that its really close to a perfect market system. Transaction fees that are large proportionally to the total cost of the item (anything over 10% imo) will cause a lot of dead weight loss, resulting in fewer transactions in the open market.
Thus... 3rd parting trading sites go up. Blizzard you literally are accomplishing the opposite of what you want to do because you're too greedy. |
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| SoulWager United States. May 08 2012 01:42. Posts 461 | Profile # |
| If blizzard actually wants people to use their AH for large items, they'll need to reduce fees to something like 5% on RMAH. Last edit: 2012-05-08 01:42:50 |
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| Dubsy Canada. May 12 2012 06:54. Posts 186 | Profile # |
Yeah the fee is insane. No one is selling anything worth less than $5 or more than $50 on the RMAH if they have some sense.
Taking a 20+% haircut ain't cool. |
| | With a right-left, right-left you're toothless, And then you say "Goddamn they ruthless!" |
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| Leporello United States. May 12 2012 07:07. Posts 1703 | Profile # |
My guess is ppl will be willing and able to spend an extra dollar or two for the convenience and security that the RMAH provides.
People think a couple percentages/dollars are going to drive people to untrustworthy 3rd party websites? I doubt it highly.Last edit: 2012-05-12 07:10:45 |
| | (\/) (;,,;) (\/) More GG, more White-Ra, more TLO |
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| justinpal United States. May 12 2012 07:51. Posts 3253 | Profile # |
| Don't worry there will be reliable third party sites. |
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| storkfan May 12 2012 08:06. Posts 425 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 13:18 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:16 KillerSOS wrote:
Low price items won't be sold much. This is intentional.
Why wouldn't they want people selling items for low prices?
More money = larger cut for blizzz.. its about making money, my friend. |
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