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| UncleSam Spain. May 24 2012 22:09. Posts 60 | Profile # |
3. If you are fit, do you have negative perspective towards overweight people?
In my case i DO when this person is aware of his overweight and DOES consider it a problem for him. Its not about obesity specificly, but about people being lazy to archive their goals. When somebody is lazy enough to not make any progress on their goals they are not to be respected |
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| Zoesan Switzerland. May 24 2012 22:21. Posts 140 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 21:23 peacenl wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 20:50 Zoesan wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:42 peacenl wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:21 squattincassanova wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:14 peacenl wrote:
On May 24 2012 15:55 squattincassanova wrote:
On May 24 2012 06:15 Ercster wrote:People are just too fucking sensitive. I've been made fun of because of my weight before, and you know what, fuck those people. They can say all the stupid shit they want, and I will never give a fuck. That being said, discrimination of any type should be abolished. We are too evolved as a society to still be discriminating.
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. ![[image loading]](http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2011/08/02/11053072/profilepic/18nQBoJmKKD31IVIfdSu7caRrNRJ30309p.jpeg) I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself.
You either only assume that the only way you can be fat is by being lazy, or you're just casting judgment on people before you've even meet them. Either way, you're a ignorant fuck, and you should be sterilized so you can't bring any more discriminating people into society.
" I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness." I didn't say "fat = laziness". Big difference in comprehension. I studied in chemical / bio engineering. I think I know a bit more factors involving in obesity than you.
You did say obese people are lazy: "I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say " I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself." Please don't kid yourself, youre basically contradicting yourself in one post. Don't make stupid assumptions either: "I studied in chemical / bio engineering. I think I know a bit more factors involving in obesity than you."
Making assumptions is an inherent nature of humans. War, stock markets, meeting new people, scientific hypothesis, all start with assumptions. If you couldn't make a choice unless you had ALL the facts for everything, guess what? The world wouldn't move forward. Why do you think we make assumptions? Not enough time in the world. Its survival instinct. Most of them are lazy. *Most*. Bro, the gene pool doesn't evolve / change over one generation. The statistical changes are clearly heavily impacted by life style changes.
The environment has changed the last decades, you would be quite blind not to see that foods, types of work and past time activities have changed regardless of someone being lazy. I think many people would classify your definition of 'lazy'. Many people don't lift a finger every week and take the easy route and go for fastfood, are they all fat? No. So whats the reason for some still being overweight, you can not say lazy because thats only one factor out of perhaps 40. So person A that is overweight is eating diet pills and excersising every week, while person B is thin doesn't excesise and eats excessively. This happens alot in practice where the metabolism rate is very different. So can someone say that the majority is just lazy? It's quite an insult as there are so many other factors at play. It's like saying to someone that contracted throatcancer "you must have been drinking a lot, you stupid drunk".
My workout buddy is a ridiculous ectomorph, he can eat absolutely anything and will never ever gain any fat. I only have to look at a sundae to gain 5 pounds. Yet, I'm currently sitting around 10% body fat. I don't even mind people that are a little big, but there is no excuse for being fat, other than a severe genetic defect. None. It's not that hard to not eat fast food, drop the ice cream and chocolates and only drinking water instead of soft drinks. It really isn't.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Anti-Depressants and other medications, poverty, sleep deprivation, eating disorders, social disorders, prepared foods (no alternatives that are still normally priced), slow metabolism rate, insuline resistance, musclar disease just to name a few scientific findings that how been shown to increase the risk of overweight. Sure I won't disagree that excercising and eating too much is the major factor but you are just plain ignorant.
And yet, if your calorie burn is higher than your calorie intake, you wont gain weight.
Also, I was considering both insuline resistance and muscular disease genetic, didn't think far enough on that. |
| | Suffer the pain of discipline or suffer the pain of regret |
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| Hertzy Finland. May 24 2012 22:21. Posts 253 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 21:23 peacenl wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 20:50 Zoesan wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:42 peacenl wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:21 squattincassanova wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:14 peacenl wrote:
On May 24 2012 15:55 squattincassanova wrote:
On May 24 2012 06:15 Ercster wrote:People are just too fucking sensitive. I've been made fun of because of my weight before, and you know what, fuck those people. They can say all the stupid shit they want, and I will never give a fuck. That being said, discrimination of any type should be abolished. We are too evolved as a society to still be discriminating.
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself.
You either only assume that the only way you can be fat is by being lazy, or you're just casting judgment on people before you've even meet them. Either way, you're a ignorant fuck, and you should be sterilized so you can't bring any more discriminating people into society.
" I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness." I didn't say "fat = laziness". Big difference in comprehension. I studied in chemical / bio engineering. I think I know a bit more factors involving in obesity than you.
You did say obese people are lazy: "I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say " I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself." Please don't kid yourself, youre basically contradicting yourself in one post. Don't make stupid assumptions either: "I studied in chemical / bio engineering. I think I know a bit more factors involving in obesity than you."
Making assumptions is an inherent nature of humans. War, stock markets, meeting new people, scientific hypothesis, all start with assumptions. If you couldn't make a choice unless you had ALL the facts for everything, guess what? The world wouldn't move forward. Why do you think we make assumptions? Not enough time in the world. Its survival instinct. Most of them are lazy. *Most*. Bro, the gene pool doesn't evolve / change over one generation. The statistical changes are clearly heavily impacted by life style changes.
The environment has changed the last decades, you would be quite blind not to see that foods, types of work and past time activities have changed regardless of someone being lazy. I think many people would classify your definition of 'lazy'. Many people don't lift a finger every week and take the easy route and go for fastfood, are they all fat? No. So whats the reason for some still being overweight, you can not say lazy because thats only one factor out of perhaps 40. So person A that is overweight is eating diet pills and excersising every week, while person B is thin doesn't excesise and eats excessively. This happens alot in practice where the metabolism rate is very different. So can someone say that the majority is just lazy? It's quite an insult as there are so many other factors at play. It's like saying to someone that contracted throatcancer "you must have been drinking a lot, you stupid drunk".
My workout buddy is a ridiculous ectomorph, he can eat absolutely anything and will never ever gain any fat. I only have to look at a sundae to gain 5 pounds. Yet, I'm currently sitting around 10% body fat. I don't even mind people that are a little big, but there is no excuse for being fat, other than a severe genetic defect. None. It's not that hard to not eat fast food, drop the ice cream and chocolates and only drinking water instead of soft drinks. It really isn't.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Anti-Depressants and other medications, poverty, sleep deprivation, eating disorders, social disorders, prepared foods (no alternatives that are still normally priced), slow metabolism rate, insuline resistance, musclar disease just to name a few scientific findings that how been shown to increase the risk of overweight. Sure I won't disagree that excercising and eating too much is the major factor but you are just plain ignorant.
However, most of that, unless arising from a severe genetic defect, can be worked around. |
| | "What's going to happen is, Hyun is going to find the 1 and the A keys on his keyboard, and all hell is going to break loose" -Kibbelz |
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| Zorkmid Canada. May 24 2012 23:01. Posts 3858 | Profile Blog # |
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself. User was temp banned for this post.
You look like you're about 5'5". How could you look down upon anyone over 15?
Also, just because someone is comfortable with a larger than average body, doesn't mean that they're not also trying to get in shape.Last edit: 2012-05-24 23:02:40 |
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| See.Blue United States. May 24 2012 23:04. Posts 2293 | Profile Blog # |
| Employers usually include health care, which implies that obese people have are more likely to require payouts, necessitating higher rates for employers to ensurers for obese workers. It has a direct influence on the finances of employers thus it's probably ok. |
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| Zorkmid Canada. May 24 2012 23:19. Posts 3858 | Profile Blog # |
On May 24 2012 23:04 See.Blue wrote:
Employers usually include health care, which implies that obese people have are more likely to require payouts, necessitating higher rates for employers to ensurers for obese workers. It has a direct influence on the finances of employers thus it's probably ok.
There is also the issue that when your employees are sick or injured, which could occur more for unhealthy people, you have to pay overtime to the rest of your workers at a 1.5x rate (or more). There are people I work with with base salaries under 80k that make more than 100k due to this specific issue. |
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| Ercster United States. May 25 2012 03:03. Posts 492 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 15:55 squattincassanova wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 06:15 Ercster wrote:People are just too fucking sensitive. I've been made fun of because of my weight before, and you know what, fuck those people. They can say all the stupid shit they want, and I will never give a fuck. That being said, discrimination of any type should be abolished. We are too evolved as a society to still be discriminating.
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself.
You either only assume that the only way you can be fat is by being lazy, or you're just casting judgment on people before you've even meet them. Either way, you're a ignorant fuck, and you should be sterilized so you can't bring any more discriminating people into society.
" I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness." I didn't say "fat = laziness". Big difference in comprehension. I studied in chemical / bio engineering. I think I know a bit more factors involving in obesity than you.
I don't give two shits about what you studied in college. It means nothing in a thread asking for opinions.
You said, "I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness" and ""I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy." You cast judgment on these individuals before even meeting them. So why should I believe that you're any different to everyone else?Last edit: 2012-05-25 03:04:11 |
| | “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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 AlphaWhale Australia. May 25 2012 03:27. Posts 321 | Profile # |
Obese people may be late to work due to their weight.
Obese people may not work as often or as hard due to a likelier chance of snacking.
Employers are not anthropologists, not even amateur anthropologists and employees are not seen as people. No matter how rancid or righteous their first impression might be, it will be the most determining factor of an interview. I'm not talking fat or chubby, we're talking about obese. Huge, breathy, prone to sweating obese.
Your mention of new Texas hospital regulations makes me wonder if they're doing this because a fat person may take up too much room in a hallway which could be a terrible thing as someone is being rushed to an ER or if a doctor/surgeon needs to operate immediately but is too slow.
In response to the questions:
1. I had a job that utilised my amazing ability of standing for eight+ hours, occasionally opening a door or helping somebody. My department was really a decoration that occasionally helped out, and thus I was somewhat self conscious. In the sense that we were all there to appear a certain way and make the patrons feel a certain way.
2. Not with the work I've done, I could see it happening. eg. I've never seen a fat teenage kid work at a juice bar or similar.
3. No, but say if I meet a fat person who goes on and on about how horrible being overweight is as they continue shovelling shit into their mouth then I can't be that sympathetic. Eating disorders and other factors aside, obviously. |
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| plogamer Canada. May 25 2012 04:21. Posts 880 | Profile Blog # |
I think everyone here has to make a distinction between overweight and obese. And even more importantly, try to reach a consensus on exactly what about 'obesity' would cost/hinder the employers.
I think health coverage has been covered as an issue. But if obesity caused an illness, I don't know if Health Insurance provided by employers will cover it - due to obesity being a 'pre-existing' condition.
Performance - Would physically fit people be too busy admiring themselves and have higher likelyhood of romantic entanglement with co-workers? Really, doesn't that sound silly?
It should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Yeah, there are plenty of people who are obese and just lazy, maybe it comes with the territory. But what about people who are obese, but also hard-working? Not doing exercise isn't necessarily a sign of laziness. I'm not obese but I don't like doing exercise. Why do manual labour without the pay? I work very hard at my day job though.
Another thing to consider is the job requirement. Can't imagine an obese person in construction. But at a desk-job? Yeah, that's do-able. Some could argue that obese people would be most productive at a job that requires them to stay sitting in one spot for long hours. |
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| frontliner2 Netherlands. May 25 2012 07:41. Posts 682 | Profile Blog # |
Overweight is a very broad definition.
There is 50 pouns overwheight and there is 500 pds overwheight. Don't throw everyone on 1 pile. Some people have shitty thyroids that mess with their hormone balance. Some people burn faster than others and would stay skinny for eating the same as someone who get's fat. It's a lot less black & white.
Also mentality counts hugely. Not everyone who is overwheight is lazy and doesn't give a rats ass if requirements are met.
That boaster with the o so desirable body (and the temp ban lol) is such an arrogant prick imho, and epsecially hatefull. I don't mind a few extra pounds honestly if I happen to love someone that is a given. Same goes for some pounds of underwheight, not everony who is skinny is annorectic and should 'just eat more, you weakling'! Love is more than looks bro. I think this guy just wanted to show off how hot and awesome he is. I can actually be happy for you that you are fit and respect that but boasting doesn't help, it annoys people.
Stop the hate. People who are truly obese, you know the extreme cases should indeed seek to lose weight (imho) because their health is indeed in the red zone, we know the risks. The reason they should is not because I feel they need to conform to the beauty standard but because it will cause problems and thus cause them suffering. This weighs more heavily (lol no pun intended) than financial reasons even. I hate to see humans suffer.
The boaster probably loves to see 'the weak' suffer so he can laugh and feel superior. I detest that attitude.
~frontliner out |
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| frontliner2 Netherlands. May 25 2012 07:49. Posts 682 | Profile Blog # |
On May 24 2012 20:00 Kickboxer wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself. User was temp banned for this post.
Too bad weights can't reshape your face, eh  User was temp banned for this post.
Was it really necessary for the mod to temp ban this reply? squattincassanova kind of asked for it. With all due respect to the mods I urge you to unban him, I thought it was a sharp reply and it gave me a sense of justification. Sorry if I'm crossing a line here! |
| | Starcraft is a very nice game and has great character. Pro games are great fun to watch! |
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| Dark.EX United States. May 25 2012 07:58. Posts 1504 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2012 07:49 frontliner2 wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 20:00 Kickboxer wrote:
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself. User was temp banned for this post.
Too bad weights can't reshape your face, eh User was temp banned for this post.
Was it really necessary for the mod to temp ban this reply? squattincassanova kind of asked for it. With all due respect to the mods I urge you to unban him, I thought it was a sharp reply and it gave me a sense of justification. Sorry if I'm crossing a line here!
It would be better to post that in website feedback. |
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 AceDSS Canada. May 25 2012 08:02. Posts 33 | Profile # |
| obesity is your own fault go to /fit/ ffs even neckbeards keep there shit together |
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| zobz Canada. May 25 2012 08:02. Posts 2130 | Profile # |
| There is no distinction between discrimination and freedom of association. If I own a business, I own the business, which means it is as much mine to do with as I please as my house or my body, barring any terms to voluntary contracts to the contrary. Employment is like sex; you have a right to both, but that right is limitted to your ability to find a consenting partner, where anybody is free to not consent according only to his personal judgement. |
| | "That's not gonna be good for business. That's not gonna be good for anybody..." |
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| Dekoth United States. May 25 2012 08:07. Posts 491 | Profile # |
Some things that need to be considered.
Generally a manager who is in a hiring position is being forced to judge a candidate over a few minutes of conversation and a piece of paper. I have been a hiring manager so I can give some insight as to how the thought process works. A candidate who comes in that is obese (Please note there is a clear and defined difference between someone who is overweight vs someone who is obese) has a distinct disadvantage due to a number of reasons;
1) If you are unwilling to care about your personal well being by putting time and effort into yourself. It lends credibility to logic stating that you are just as lazy in your professional life.
2) Obese people are a higher health liability for a company. This is indisputable and as a direct result companies are paying more for health insurance.
3) An obese worker is going to on average take more sick days and generally not be nearly as productive as a healthy person. This again is indisputable fact.
Don't get me wrong, these criteria do not apply to every single obese person. However they are applicable enough of the time that an obese candidate walks in the door with a tougher challenge to land the job. It boils down to simple pros and cons for a company. |
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| beg May 25 2012 08:11. Posts 654 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself. User was temp banned for this post.
i dont understand why all the people who share your opinion cant just be happy with not being lazy themselves and having a cool life.
people's opinions here keep seriously surprising me. |
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| zobz Canada. May 25 2012 08:34. Posts 2130 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 08:11 beg wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself. User was temp banned for this post.
i dont understand why all the people who share your opinion cant just be happy with not being lazy themselves and having a cool life. people's opinions here keep seriously surprising me.
It seem to me that he finds laziness appalling, and thinks the world would be a better place with more virtuous people. To have to live among others with self-destructive tendencies is debilatating to anyone who wishes to trade positive values, and is logically a resentable fact of life. It's not that hard to understand. |
| | "That's not gonna be good for business. That's not gonna be good for anybody..." |
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| Ghostcom Denmark. May 25 2012 08:40. Posts 2496 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 21:23 peacenl wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 20:50 Zoesan wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:42 peacenl wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:21 squattincassanova wrote:
On May 24 2012 19:14 peacenl wrote:
On May 24 2012 15:55 squattincassanova wrote:
On May 24 2012 06:15 Ercster wrote:People are just too fucking sensitive. I've been made fun of because of my weight before, and you know what, fuck those people. They can say all the stupid shit they want, and I will never give a fuck. That being said, discrimination of any type should be abolished. We are too evolved as a society to still be discriminating.
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself.
You either only assume that the only way you can be fat is by being lazy, or you're just casting judgment on people before you've even meet them. Either way, you're a ignorant fuck, and you should be sterilized so you can't bring any more discriminating people into society.
" I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness." I didn't say "fat = laziness". Big difference in comprehension. I studied in chemical / bio engineering. I think I know a bit more factors involving in obesity than you.
You did say obese people are lazy: "I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say " I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself." Please don't kid yourself, youre basically contradicting yourself in one post. Don't make stupid assumptions either: "I studied in chemical / bio engineering. I think I know a bit more factors involving in obesity than you."
Making assumptions is an inherent nature of humans. War, stock markets, meeting new people, scientific hypothesis, all start with assumptions. If you couldn't make a choice unless you had ALL the facts for everything, guess what? The world wouldn't move forward. Why do you think we make assumptions? Not enough time in the world. Its survival instinct. Most of them are lazy. *Most*. Bro, the gene pool doesn't evolve / change over one generation. The statistical changes are clearly heavily impacted by life style changes.
The environment has changed the last decades, you would be quite blind not to see that foods, types of work and past time activities have changed regardless of someone being lazy. I think many people would classify your definition of 'lazy'. Many people don't lift a finger every week and take the easy route and go for fastfood, are they all fat? No. So whats the reason for some still being overweight, you can not say lazy because thats only one factor out of perhaps 40. So person A that is overweight is eating diet pills and excersising every week, while person B is thin doesn't excesise and eats excessively. This happens alot in practice where the metabolism rate is very different. So can someone say that the majority is just lazy? It's quite an insult as there are so many other factors at play. It's like saying to someone that contracted throatcancer "you must have been drinking a lot, you stupid drunk".
My workout buddy is a ridiculous ectomorph, he can eat absolutely anything and will never ever gain any fat. I only have to look at a sundae to gain 5 pounds. Yet, I'm currently sitting around 10% body fat. I don't even mind people that are a little big, but there is no excuse for being fat, other than a severe genetic defect. None. It's not that hard to not eat fast food, drop the ice cream and chocolates and only drinking water instead of soft drinks. It really isn't.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Anti-Depressants and other medications, poverty, sleep deprivation, eating disorders, social disorders, prepared foods (no alternatives that are still normally priced), slow metabolism rate, insuline resistance, musclar disease just to name a few scientific findings that how been shown to increase the risk of overweight. Sure I won't disagree that excercising and eating too much is the major factor but you are just plain ignorant.
Anti-depressants don't meddle with your weight, you are thinking of anti-psychotics (like Leponex and Zyprexa). Also, insuline resistance usually doesn't happen out of nowhere... |
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| Knap4life Slovenia. May 25 2012 08:50. Posts 322 | Profile Blog # |
The problem is that "FAT = LAZY" is false. However "FAT = bad eating habits" would be more accurate. I agree that exercising is a form of staying in shape but if you eat bad food no amount of exercise is going to help you lose fat or just stay in shape.
The problem lies in the food , when you enter a store , there is about 80% of food products containing sugar.A high dooze of sugar ends up in weight gain due to sugar being poisoning in the blood veins and the body has to release insuling to convert sugar into fat and store it in your fat cells.
I have gone a bit off-topic with this and i am sorry for that but it is related in some way and i just had to put this out because i saw a few people post some outrageous posts about the fact if your fat , your just lazy.
I used to be fat and it was not because i did not exercise , i played football every weekend , every evening for 3 hours , and done plenty of "exercise" outside when i was a kid during the week and i was still fat.I love my mother and my father but they fed me some gross shit that made me fat and kept me that way.
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| Ercster United States. May 25 2012 09:24. Posts 492 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 08:34 zobz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 08:11 beg wrote:
On May 24 2012 05:37 squattincassanova wrote:I look like this and yes, I look down upon fat people who are fat because of laziness. I hate going on online dating sites and these chicks say "I'm curvy, deal with it" or "Take me as I am". Stfu, you're lazy. Respect yourself. User was temp banned for this post.
i dont understand why all the people who share your opinion cant just be happy with not being lazy themselves and having a cool life. people's opinions here keep seriously surprising me.
It seem to me that he finds laziness appalling, and thinks the world would be a better place with more virtuous people. To have to live among others with self-destructive tendencies is debilatating to anyone who wishes to trade positive values, and is logically a resentable fact of life. It's not that hard to understand.
I have a problem with that a little bit. I am a lazy person, however, when I work(job work), or do things that are required of me as a member of society, I am very hard working. So to be mad or discriminate against those who choose to be lazy on their free time is stupid. |
| | “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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