| ChosenSC2 United States. May 04 2012 11:42. Posts 379 | Profile # |
| The Overlord speed thing is fine, giving Protoss map-hack sooner wasn't really needed, and the Queen energy buff is retarded. If they are going to do that they need to make Queens cost 200 instead of 150. Cuz now for Z early game 2 queens = 4 queens. |
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| s3rp Germany. May 04 2012 11:43. Posts 2968 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 11:39 Ballistixz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:34 Alexstrasas wrote:
On May 04 2012 11:24 Ballistixz wrote:
On May 04 2012 11:12 teamhozac wrote:
On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:
On May 04 2012 10:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Wtf the queen range upgrade is just another Terran nerf. Now we can't kite queens with hellions/ marines/ reapers.
whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. u guys already whined to the point that they reverted the energy buff, this compensates for it. if they revert this change then the only other option is to buff spines, which ppl will also QQ about.
Whats really sad is your completely biased troll job youve done throughout this entire thread. Maybe people are arguing against this because THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON FOR IT! Do you really feel like queens need a buff? Since when has this even been an issue, I am just flabbergasted at this whole thing.
the reason for the changes is to buff zergs early game defenses...... queen buffs are the most logical because they are early game defensive units... the only other defensive unit(structure) zerg has is spines, shall we buff spines instead of queens? no because ppl will bitch about that to. there is no pleasing you ppl. this is why blizz needs to stop asking for feed back from randoms in the community and instead go to the top lvl players FIRST. they need to grow a pair, release the patch for about a month, and if it not as they intended then revert it. that is the best way to test something IMO instead of have it out for a single day and listen to a bunch of gold-low master QQ and then revert it all in 24 hours.
And zerg needed an early game defense buff because ... ?
please read instead of asking those kinds of questions. they are balancing it based on the PRO levels. this is patch is meant to effect them and not anyone lower than that. at those levels zerg needs a buff.
But especially at the pro-level this is not as big of an issue as other stuff. ( at least from what i see in pro-game ) This didn't need to be adressed as drastically as this. Seriously rarely do Zergs take big damage unless they get overly greedy and play unsave or completely fuck up.
Last edit: 2012-05-04 11:45:38 |
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| FLuE United States. May 04 2012 11:46. Posts 819 | Profile # |
The thing with the queen energy buff is that it was a passive change.
I have said in this thread a few times I like that approach to balance. Basically, in lower leagues the energy buff will be less useful than in higher leagues. In lower leagues people aren't spreading creep as well anyway, aren't using up energy efficiently, etc. Changes like the queen energy scale with higher level skill, which I think is a good way to approach balance.
Instead everyone complained and blizzard went back to their old ways of just increasing the range attack. Boring. Lame. And that change helps the weakest player to the best player.
So good job community, being short sighted and not realizing that the energy change would have made the zerg early game more dynamic and opened up some more options while really not affecting the game that greatly could have been a nice subtle change that wouldn't affect most people in this thread. Instead now we get a stupid direct buff that although nice and helpful does nothing to increase skill level or strategy within the game, if anything it just dumbs it down more. |
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| templar rage United States. May 04 2012 11:46. Posts 1333 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 11:22 LRObot wrote:
HAHAHAHA.
Is this strong enough evidence that Blizzard is 'balancing' at the whim of the community? This game is becoming such a farce if so.
Probably worded too strongly, but I agree. It's pretty silly that 60 pages of whining here (and however much on Bnet/other forums) was all it took for Blizzard to try something else. This exact kind of shitstorm of baseless theorycrafting happens every single time a patch has announced. And not only do the majority of the changes go through anyway, they don't even break the game like everyone thought. I didn't agree with the change (and I might disagree even more with the range buff), but what I disagree the most with is not even giving it a legitimate chance. |
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 teamhozac May 04 2012 11:49. Posts 404 | Profile # |
| Still no one is even addressing the question, why are any of these changes needed? |
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| Ballistixz United States. May 04 2012 11:51. Posts 1269 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 11:49 teamhozac wrote:
Still no one is even addressing the question, why are any of these changes needed?
maybe because the question is answered in the OP...........? |
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 Zelniq United States. May 04 2012 11:53. Posts 6957 | Profile Blog # |
Where the queen anti-ground range upgrade from 3 to 5 will be most useful:
All matchups:
- Queens will sit further behind your army when defending attacks, in a safer area. It will be noticeably easier to keep them alive.
- The unique situations where you built many queens to defend vs air, and you didn't take much damage, and then decide to counterattack because they're vulnerable (often they are depending on their air units to keep them temporarily alive, which is where your queens come in). Well now if you attack with army + queens, queens can probably hit ground stuff now.
ZvT:
- Queens are quite a bit better at pushing back a hellion 'contain' (so you can safely spread tumors)
- Can help defend bunker rushes (attacking scvs building bunkers, marines).
- Hellions (range 5), marines (5), and reapers (4.5), can no longer kite queens without taking hits.
ZvP:
- Stalkers (range 6) harassing queens will be slightly easier on the zerg
- Defending zealot harass slightly better
- Very situationally help vs cannon rushes (particularly the 3 pylon wall can be slowly pecked at by a queen now even with a cannon behind it)
- Just generally be a little more useful at fending off early rushes or small attacks.
ZvZ:
- When you've 2 queens blocking ramp while lings attack your spine/s, now your queen can often attack back while standing there.
- Queens are better at denying baneling runbys
- A bit better at dealing with ling harassment
- Situationally vs roaches (queens will outrange them), like when they're on hold position behind your mineral line when they went around your spines.
- Some zvz attacks involve roaches/queens/infestors (usually vs muta builds) so they may be marginally more useful there (though they're mostly for antiair and transfuse still).
here is a useful list of the Ranges of all units/spells
Last edit: 2012-05-04 11:53:50 |
| | Blame yourself or God |  |
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| dde Canada. May 04 2012 11:54. Posts 702 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 11:51 Ballistixz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:49 teamhozac wrote:
Still no one is even addressing the question, why are any of these changes needed?
maybe because the question is answered in the OP...........?
Do you work for blizzard? just curious. because it seems like uve posted atleast 100 comments on this thread already :D |
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| phiinix United States. May 04 2012 11:57. Posts 1126 | Profile Blog # |
| I wasn't aware that hellions weren't suppose to be able to control creep tumors ): |
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| BlueKatz May 04 2012 12:00. Posts 68 | Profile # |
| I agree with Range change but it should be Range 4, not 5. Marine should be able to kite Queen but Hellion and Reaper should not. |
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| Bidj France. May 04 2012 12:01. Posts 97 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 11:54 dde wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:51 Ballistixz wrote:
On May 04 2012 11:49 teamhozac wrote:
Still no one is even addressing the question, why are any of these changes needed?
maybe because the question is answered in the OP...........?
Do you work for blizzard? just curious. because it seems like uve posted atleast 100 comments on this thread already :D
Nope, just search his name on sc2ranks.
And to contribute to this thread, I think that the range buff is far better than the energy one, but that's is still a move in direction of a "simpler" game. |
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| FLuE United States. May 04 2012 12:04. Posts 819 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 11:53 Zelniq wrote:Where the queen anti-ground range upgrade from 3 to 5 will be most useful:All matchups:- Queens will sit further behind your army when defending attacks, in a safer area. It will be noticeably easier to keep them alive.
- The unique situations where you built many queens to defend vs air, and you didn't take much damage, and then decide to counterattack because they're vulnerable (often they are depending on their air units to keep them temporarily alive, which is where your queens come in). Well now if you attack with army + queens, queens can probably hit ground stuff now.
ZvT:- Queens are quite a bit better at pushing back a hellion 'contain' (so you can safely spread tumors)
- Can help defend bunker rushes (attacking scvs building bunkers, marines).
- Hellions (range 5), marines (5), and reapers (4.5), can no longer kite queens without taking hits.
ZvP:- Stalkers (range 6) harassing queens will be slightly easier on the zerg
- Defending zealot harass slightly better
- Very situationally help vs cannon rushes (particularly the 3 pylon wall can be slowly pecked at by a queen now even with a cannon behind it)
- Just generally be a little more useful at fending off early rushes or small attacks.
ZvZ:- When you've 2 queens blocking ramp while lings attack your spine/s, now your queen can often attack back while standing there.
- Queens are better at denying baneling runbys
- A bit better at dealing with ling harassment
- Situationally vs roaches (queens will outrange them), like when they're on hold position behind your mineral line when they went around your spines.
- Some zvz attacks involve roaches/queens/infestors (usually vs muta builds) so they may be marginally more useful there (though they're mostly for antiair and transfuse still).
here is a useful list of the Ranges of all units/spells
All these reasons are why I hate the range change. It has little to do with making the game more difficult. A lot of these situations that will be changed by the range are ones that aren't a real problem in the game.
If you think of the queen starting with 50 energy, most of the above is still viable. The 50 energy change is a change that is only useful if you can still micro well enough to spread creep, and hit your injects. Otherwise, your average player in your average game will see no real difference. Yeah you get an instant transfuse well you need to micro to get it off in time.
They say they are trying to balance at the highest levels, well the energy change really only helps the highest levels as lower leagues can't micro well enough to take advantage anyway. The range change is stupid, it helps all levels and waters the game down even more.
All the people complaining about queen energy change would have seen no difference in 95% of their games. Anyone in plat and below would see no change. Those are the leagues where queens have 50+ energy a few minutes into the game, injects are missed, and there is no creep spread anyway. I hate that they are listening to a group that is theory crafting and would see no difference. Now we get a stupider change that waters down the game vs. a nice change that would have made the game better at a higher level. |
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| Madkipz Norway. May 04 2012 12:09. Posts 1553 | Profile Blog # |
| Queen, range or energy won't mean a damn thing against hellions because hellions can't kill spines, and queens take ages to kill hellions. |
| | "16 scv + 1 mule equals income of 24 (fully saturated) workers" |  |
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| SarcasmMonster May 04 2012 12:13. Posts 2907 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 12:09 Madkipz wrote:
Queen, range or energy won't mean a damn thing against hellions because hellions can't kill spines, and queens take ages to kill hellions.
Except pros do use Queens to shoo off hellions. +2 range will help and will mean a damn thing. |
| | MMA: The true King of Wings |
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| backtrakker Canada. May 04 2012 12:13. Posts 13 | Profile # |
| Queen`s at range 5 will almost completely deny scouting with a probe inside the main once a queen is out which makes scouting for all-ins really difficult. |
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| HypernovA Canada. May 04 2012 12:14. Posts 446 | Profile # |
Wow this game is such a joke now its not even funny
5 range queens?
Queens are already good enough.
And Blizzard said that TvP is perfectly balanced? LMAO, I want some of the stuff they are smoking.Last edit: 2012-05-04 12:14:35 |
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| SuperYo1000 United States. May 04 2012 12:15. Posts 718 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 12:13 backtrakker wrote:
Queen`s at range 5 will almost completely deny scouting with a probe inside the main once a queen is out which makes scouting for all-ins really difficult.
this is exactly it....this really worries me. |
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| Ballistixz United States. May 04 2012 12:16. Posts 1269 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 12:09 Madkipz wrote:
Queen, range or energy won't mean a damn thing against hellions because hellions can't kill spines, and queens take ages to kill hellions.
queens do fairly good dps against hellions. more then enough to push them back
Last edit: 2012-05-04 12:16:26 |
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| MegaFonzie Australia. May 04 2012 12:18. Posts 1077 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 12:14 HypernovA wrote:
Wow this game is such a joke now its not even funny
5 range queens?
Queens are already good enough.
And Blizzard said that TvP is perfectly balanced? LMAO, I want some of the stuff they are smoking.
It says literally nowhere in the OP that Blizzard thinks TvP is perfectly balanced |
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| worldsnap Canada. May 04 2012 12:19. Posts 222 | Profile # |
| Can you nerds calm down for 10 seconds and realize that none of these are implemented permanently yet. These are tests they could just do internally, but instead they are letting the community try them out. they might try a few things. It's not a "Farce". grow up. |
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