On May 04 2012 22:43 Br3ezy wrote: i dont really understand in TvZ, if zerg has trouble scouting early game, but terran's early game is considered to be the strongest...doesnt that sort of contradict each other that they are trying to give zerg easier scouting game against the strongest part of tvz play? Wouldn't that like be lowering the mana cost for snipe on ghosts to be able to counter zerg's late game arsenel of broodlords ultralisks and infestors?
This has been the case since the dawn of the game, we are supposed to be the "harass race" the "early pressure race" who needs to put pressure on our opponents in order to stay even/get ahead. Unfortunately blizzard has done everything possible in order to make it harder for us to actually apply this pressure effectively. Rax nerf, reaper nerf, bunker nerf, BFH nerf, bigger maps, etc. Now this bullshit, better scouting for zerg, increased queen range, Blizzard really hates Terran. Some goober (community manager) over on the Battlenet forums was saying how TvP late game "may be Protoss favored" unless the Terran "uses his early/midgame advantage to stay even" How are we supposed to do this if they keep nerfing us, making the maps bigger, giving zerg/protoss better defense/scouting... shit has just gotten out of hand.
Last edit: 2012-05-04 23:00:38
Umpteen United Kingdom. May 04 2012 22:54. Posts 1238
On May 03 2012 08:57 Toppp wrote: Pretty sad that they arent in touch with terrans current place.. I feel like they just took those complaints straight from the Battle.net forums.. 50 energy starting queen isn't taking into account late game creep spread which will be godlike and all queens will have a massive useless pileup of energy that will be spent mostly on pure creep tumors, which in return will have everyones creeps pread looking like seals..
In most games, creep spread actually tends to peak around the late midgame. Beyond that, P and T have enough detection and damage wandering around that it becomes hard for Zergs to push the creep out further unless they're really dominating.
Agree, adding more starting energy to get an earlier creep tumor is going to do very little for zerg in ZvT. The first 2 hellions will just kill it like usual.
Increasing overlord speed is a good idea or please just fix Korhal Compound. As it is right now Terran can get 2 marines out to kill the first overlord before it makes it safely behind the enemies natural.
I still think Thors are OP. Too easy for Terran to pump them off of 2 bases, A attack into any zerg composition and just stomp. Please reduce contaminate cost on overseers so at least zerg has a chance to delay thors from coming out. I cant remember the last time I even saw a pro use contaminate.
Thor OP? lol youve got to be kidding right?
He forgot zergs can make roaches against terran.
If you want to see Thors made to look properly stupid, bring two or three broodlords along with your roaches. The Thors get such a hard-on for killing the broodlords (which takes them ages) they completely ignore the roaches.
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On May 04 2012 22:43 Br3ezy wrote: i dont really understand in TvZ, if zerg has trouble scouting early game, but terran's early game is considered to be the strongest...doesnt that sort of contradict each other that they are trying to give zerg easier scouting game against the strongest part of tvz play? Wouldn't that like be lowering the mana cost for snipe on ghosts to be able to counter zerg's late game arsenel of broodlords ultralisks and infestors?
You are correct, "fixing" early game zerg is the first step, next one is "fixing" lategame terran. But terrans need to explore more, look at Morrow's TvZ for example, it's different, and brutal.
On May 04 2012 22:43 Br3ezy wrote: i dont really understand in TvZ, if zerg has trouble scouting early game, but terran's early game is considered to be the strongest...doesnt that sort of contradict each other that they are trying to give zerg easier scouting game against the strongest part of tvz play? Wouldn't that like be lowering the mana cost for snipe on ghosts to be able to counter zerg's late game arsenel of broodlords ultralisks and infestors?
This has been the case since the dawn of the game, we are supposed to be the "harass race" the "early pressure race" who needs to put pressure on our opponents in order to stay even/get ahead. Unfortunately blizzard has done everything possible in order to make it harder for us to actually apply this pressure effectively. Rax nerf, reaper nerf, bunker nerf, BFH nerf, bigger maps, etc. Now this bullshit, better scouting for zerg, increased queen range, Blizzard really hates Terran. Some goober (community manager) over on the Battlenet forums was saying how TvP late game "may be Protoss favored" unless the Terran "uses his early/midgame advantage to stay even" How are we supposed to do this if they keep nerfing us, making the maps bigger, giving zerg/protoss better defense/scouting... shit has just gotten out of hand.
Terran is the most efficiantly race and most succesful race since the release of the game. So please don't blame Blizz if they see some imbalance right there.
KangaRuthless United States. May 04 2012 23:30. Posts 298
On May 04 2012 22:43 Br3ezy wrote: i dont really understand in TvZ, if zerg has trouble scouting early game, but terran's early game is considered to be the strongest...doesnt that sort of contradict each other that they are trying to give zerg easier scouting game against the strongest part of tvz play? Wouldn't that like be lowering the mana cost for snipe on ghosts to be able to counter zerg's late game arsenel of broodlords ultralisks and infestors?
This has been the case since the dawn of the game, we are supposed to be the "harass race" the "early pressure race" who needs to put pressure on our opponents in order to stay even/get ahead. Unfortunately blizzard has done everything possible in order to make it harder for us to actually apply this pressure effectively. Rax nerf, reaper nerf, bunker nerf, BFH nerf, bigger maps, etc. Now this bullshit, better scouting for zerg, increased queen range, Blizzard really hates Terran. Some goober (community manager) over on the Battlenet forums was saying how TvP late game "may be Protoss favored" unless the Terran "uses his early/midgame advantage to stay even" How are we supposed to do this if they keep nerfing us, making the maps bigger, giving zerg/protoss better defense/scouting... shit has just gotten out of hand.
On May 04 2012 21:54 GrandSmurf wrote: they also acknowledged that broodlord - infestor 'might be a little too strong'. and we know how that turned out.
they also acknowledged that the marine is probably too good, but DK said there is not much they can do about it without completly redesigning huge parts of Terran
I'm really happy with the range change. Not only will it help kite early game aggression like zealots and help deal with hellions, but it will ultimately make that 3 pylon block (made possible by blizzard maps) that much easier to deal with! I feel like this is a really good idea!
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iAmJeffReY United States. May 05 2012 00:44. Posts 3388
On May 03 2012 08:57 Toppp wrote: Pretty sad that they arent in touch with terrans current place.. I feel like they just took those complaints straight from the Battle.net forums.. 50 energy starting queen isn't taking into account late game creep spread which will be godlike and all queens will have a massive useless pileup of energy that will be spent mostly on pure creep tumors, which in return will have everyones creeps pread looking like seals..
In most games, creep spread actually tends to peak around the late midgame. Beyond that, P and T have enough detection and damage wandering around that it becomes hard for Zergs to push the creep out further unless they're really dominating.
Agree, adding more starting energy to get an earlier creep tumor is going to do very little for zerg in ZvT. The first 2 hellions will just kill it like usual.
Increasing overlord speed is a good idea or please just fix Korhal Compound. As it is right now Terran can get 2 marines out to kill the first overlord before it makes it safely behind the enemies natural.
I still think Thors are OP. Too easy for Terran to pump them off of 2 bases, A attack into any zerg composition and just stomp. Please reduce contaminate cost on overseers so at least zerg has a chance to delay thors from coming out. I cant remember the last time I even saw a pro use contaminate.
Thor OP? lol youve got to be kidding right?
He forgot zergs can make roaches against terran.
If you want to see Thors made to look properly stupid, bring two or three broodlords along with your roaches. The Thors get such a hard-on for killing the broodlords (which takes them ages) they completely ignore the roaches.
Fuck bring ANY air unit lol. Thors auto targeting air has been the biggest joke in a long time. Making them almost worthless in some situations, as manual targeting with a unit that does such high DPS and murders things fast just sucks.
On May 04 2012 21:54 GrandSmurf wrote: they also acknowledged that broodlord - infestor 'might be a little too strong'. and we know how that turned out.
they also acknowledged that the marine is probably too good, but DK said there is not much they can do about it without completly redesigning huge parts of Terran
They never said it was too good, they said it would be hard to make changes to it because it's such a fundamental part of the terran army IF it ever got too good.
On May 03 2012 08:57 Toppp wrote: Pretty sad that they arent in touch with terrans current place.. I feel like they just took those complaints straight from the Battle.net forums.. 50 energy starting queen isn't taking into account late game creep spread which will be godlike and all queens will have a massive useless pileup of energy that will be spent mostly on pure creep tumors, which in return will have everyones creeps pread looking like seals..
In most games, creep spread actually tends to peak around the late midgame. Beyond that, P and T have enough detection and damage wandering around that it becomes hard for Zergs to push the creep out further unless they're really dominating.
Agree, adding more starting energy to get an earlier creep tumor is going to do very little for zerg in ZvT. The first 2 hellions will just kill it like usual.
Increasing overlord speed is a good idea or please just fix Korhal Compound. As it is right now Terran can get 2 marines out to kill the first overlord before it makes it safely behind the enemies natural.
I still think Thors are OP. Too easy for Terran to pump them off of 2 bases, A attack into any zerg composition and just stomp. Please reduce contaminate cost on overseers so at least zerg has a chance to delay thors from coming out. I cant remember the last time I even saw a pro use contaminate.
Thor OP? lol youve got to be kidding right?
He forgot zergs can make roaches against terran.
If you want to see Thors made to look properly stupid, bring two or three broodlords along with your roaches. The Thors get such a hard-on for killing the broodlords (which takes them ages) they completely ignore the roaches.
Fuck bring ANY air unit lol. Thors auto targeting air has been the biggest joke in a long time. Making them almost worthless in some situations, as manual targeting with a unit that does such high DPS and murders things fast just sucks.
My favorite is the massive overlord migration over your thors and then the zerg rushes in and rapes everything, its like the modern day dark swarm
On May 04 2012 22:43 Br3ezy wrote: i dont really understand in TvZ, if zerg has trouble scouting early game, but terran's early game is considered to be the strongest...doesnt that sort of contradict each other that they are trying to give zerg easier scouting game against the strongest part of tvz play? Wouldn't that like be lowering the mana cost for snipe on ghosts to be able to counter zerg's late game arsenel of broodlords ultralisks and infestors?
This has been the case since the dawn of the game, we are supposed to be the "harass race" the "early pressure race" who needs to put pressure on our opponents in order to stay even/get ahead. Unfortunately blizzard has done everything possible in order to make it harder for us to actually apply this pressure effectively. Rax nerf, reaper nerf, bunker nerf, BFH nerf, bigger maps, etc. Now this bullshit, better scouting for zerg, increased queen range, Blizzard really hates Terran. Some goober (community manager) over on the Battlenet forums was saying how TvP late game "may be Protoss favored" unless the Terran "uses his early/midgame advantage to stay even" How are we supposed to do this if they keep nerfing us, making the maps bigger, giving zerg/protoss better defense/scouting... shit has just gotten out of hand.
On May 04 2012 21:54 GrandSmurf wrote: they also acknowledged that broodlord - infestor 'might be a little too strong'. and we know how that turned out.
they also acknowledged that the marine is probably too good, but DK said there is not much they can do about it without completly redesigning huge parts of Terran
They never said it was too good, they said it would be hard to make changes to it because it's such a fundamental part of the terran army IF it ever got too good.
Marines are only as good as the player that uses them, there are plenty of counters to them, but perfect marine micro makes them super effective. Saying marines are OP is just stupid though
On May 04 2012 21:54 GrandSmurf wrote: they also acknowledged that broodlord - infestor 'might be a little too strong'. and we know how that turned out.
they also acknowledged that the marine is probably too good, but DK said there is not much they can do about it without completly redesigning huge parts of Terran
They never said it was too good, they said it would be hard to make changes to it because it's such a fundamental part of the terran army IF it ever got too good.
(David Kim) In the patch 1.4, Bionic units were very powerful. This is just as vague as "BL/Inf might be too good".
Neither of those units has been nerfed since their respective comments. (at least I think the BL/Inf comment was already after NP nerf)
I find it funny how people who play terran think blizzard hates terran and terran has become terrible. Play another race if terran is the worst race you will do better with a diffferent one. Also if massive amounts of players stop playing terran they will probably get buffed.
Although going based on pro scene terran has never been in danger preformance wise.
If you cant do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly
I like the overlord change,the queen change seems ok i guess and it will certainly help against 2 rax and early hellions(it will also come in handy in zvz). Maybe though blizzard should experiment with tuning the ghost up a little bit to help terran lategame against both races.
DooMDash United States. May 05 2012 01:23. Posts 841
On May 03 2012 08:57 Toppp wrote: Pretty sad that they arent in touch with terrans current place.. I feel like they just took those complaints straight from the Battle.net forums.. 50 energy starting queen isn't taking into account late game creep spread which will be godlike and all queens will have a massive useless pileup of energy that will be spent mostly on pure creep tumors, which in return will have everyones creeps pread looking like seals..
In most games, creep spread actually tends to peak around the late midgame. Beyond that, P and T have enough detection and damage wandering around that it becomes hard for Zergs to push the creep out further unless they're really dominating.
Agree, adding more starting energy to get an earlier creep tumor is going to do very little for zerg in ZvT. The first 2 hellions will just kill it like usual.
Increasing overlord speed is a good idea or please just fix Korhal Compound. As it is right now Terran can get 2 marines out to kill the first overlord before it makes it safely behind the enemies natural.
I still think Thors are OP. Too easy for Terran to pump them off of 2 bases, A attack into any zerg composition and just stomp. Please reduce contaminate cost on overseers so at least zerg has a chance to delay thors from coming out. I cant remember the last time I even saw a pro use contaminate.
Thor OP? lol youve got to be kidding right?
He forgot zergs can make roaches against terran.
If you want to see Thors made to look properly stupid, bring two or three broodlords along with your roaches. The Thors get such a hard-on for killing the broodlords (which takes them ages) they completely ignore the roaches.
Fuck bring ANY air unit lol. Thors auto targeting air has been the biggest joke in a long time. Making them almost worthless in some situations, as manual targeting with a unit that does such high DPS and murders things fast just sucks.
My favorite is the massive overlord migration over your thors and then the zerg rushes in and rapes everything, its like the modern day dark swarm
Yeah, but it doesn't work, because Thors don't do that. Plain and simple, Thors don't shoot OLs if there is something else to shoot. They don't even switch target from ground to air or air to ground, when a new combat unit comes in range.
teamhozac May 04 2012 22:54. Posts 404
