Exactly.. Should you be able to nueter a race's macro mechanic so easily?
Well I'm a terran, so my opinion on exactly this is quite uneffected by bias. Yes, yes you should. Seeing the sacrifice protoss makes to make the SG and any unit from it, it has to have some potential to reward it. I was however a bit hasty, someone pointed out correctly that VRs would do +20% dmg against queens if they were massive, so that *might* make it enough to balance the graviton beam not being usable(though admittedly I doubt it, seeing as the queen VR still can't touch spores, the queen can always just dmg it a bit and run back to the safety of the spore).
So where is my Zerg unit that drains all energy from your orbital?
Better yet.. where is my Zerg unit the turns your Orbital back into a CC?
They're called burrow banelings, or infestors!
Next question?!
The point is with ever other race you can "harass" their macro mechanic by killings its output Terran (Mule) Protoss (Probes). You don't actually destroy the macro mechanic. And before you say Contaminate or EMP on Nexus / Orbital think about the timing for ghosts
You're just wrong here. SO so so so so wrong. You don't completely destroy the macro mechanic by killing a queen. You shut it down for a short period of time because you invested in something that isn't that useful outside of harassment and vs mutalisks. If phoenix don't take out at least 1 or 2 queens and some drones they aren't worth the investment that you put into them. It's not hard to shut down a low number of phoenix anyways, put a spore crawler in each mineral line and they can't come in and pick stuff up because they'll die doing it.
if i kill a mule they dont have to morph a new orbital, if they kill a queen i have to make a new queen
Exactly, with the other races the energy / mana just rebuild you don't have to spend more minerals just be able to macro again.
They're not just trading energy they invested in the phoenix with at least 600 minerals and 450 gas. Also look at late game zerg and how that works. Trading energy and units that come from an attack trading for units that cost minerals and gas.
Your missing the point... What other race's macro mechanic can be affect that easy?
The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
It was already the case on Cloud Kingdom. Just that you needed to lift your rax up to finish killing that overlord. FYI, i remember MC saying that the first marine from a depot 11-12 and rax afterward get your first marine in 3:10. Add some travel time and you get roughly 3:15 at best, which is plenty of time for the overlord to survive until he gets there.
On the other hand, about Korhal, it's impossible to get there safely. But with the change ? Probably, I can't be sure without testing
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
TheDraken United States. May 05 2012 11:10. Posts 632
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
lol.
thank you for posting this. i've argued this point so many times when terrans whine about imba scouting from zerg.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
more koreans is a good thing! || Yᵒᵘ Oᶰˡʸ Lᶤᵛᵉ Oᶰᶜᵉ
SolidMoose United States. May 05 2012 11:26. Posts 1143
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
Because Terran was clearly made to spend 150 minerals and scv building time to make a building for scouting.
Different races were made differently for a reason. Do you expect Terrans can actually afford to do that kind of thing? It would put them way behind in every single opener. No.
ePLocust United States. May 05 2012 11:29. Posts 571
On May 05 2012 09:28 Zarahtra wrote: [quote] Well I'm a terran, so my opinion on exactly this is quite uneffected by bias. Yes, yes you should. Seeing the sacrifice protoss makes to make the SG and any unit from it, it has to have some potential to reward it. I was however a bit hasty, someone pointed out correctly that VRs would do +20% dmg against queens if they were massive, so that *might* make it enough to balance the graviton beam not being usable(though admittedly I doubt it, seeing as the queen VR still can't touch spores, the queen can always just dmg it a bit and run back to the safety of the spore).
So where is my Zerg unit that drains all energy from your orbital?
Better yet.. where is my Zerg unit the turns your Orbital back into a CC?
They're called burrow banelings, or infestors!
Next question?!
The point is with ever other race you can "harass" their macro mechanic by killings its output Terran (Mule) Protoss (Probes). You don't actually destroy the macro mechanic. And before you say Contaminate or EMP on Nexus / Orbital think about the timing for ghosts
You're just wrong here. SO so so so so wrong. You don't completely destroy the macro mechanic by killing a queen. You shut it down for a short period of time because you invested in something that isn't that useful outside of harassment and vs mutalisks. If phoenix don't take out at least 1 or 2 queens and some drones they aren't worth the investment that you put into them. It's not hard to shut down a low number of phoenix anyways, put a spore crawler in each mineral line and they can't come in and pick stuff up because they'll die doing it.
if i kill a mule they dont have to morph a new orbital, if they kill a queen i have to make a new queen
Exactly, with the other races the energy / mana just rebuild you don't have to spend more minerals just be able to macro again.
They're not just trading energy they invested in the phoenix with at least 600 minerals and 450 gas. Also look at late game zerg and how that works. Trading energy and units that come from an attack trading for units that cost minerals and gas.
Your missing the point... What other race's macro mechanic can be affect that easy?
It's easy to defend but if you don't invest to defend it you're gonna suffer. There are builds and there are responses. The response to phoenix is pretty damn easy.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
Because Terran was clearly made to spend 150 minerals and scv building time to make a building for scouting.
Different races were made differently for a reason. Do you expect Terrans can actually afford to do that kind of thing? It would put them way behind in every single opener. No.
I think they actually do do that if they're meching. ofc the flying rax also gives away your unit comp to the Zerg.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
Because Terran was clearly made to spend 150 minerals and scv building time to make a building for scouting.
Different races were made differently for a reason. Do you expect Terrans can actually afford to do that kind of thing? It would put them way behind in every single opener. No.
that video also shows the overlord doesn't actuallyh fly that much faster, still with 2-3 marines can still deny all scouting
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
lol.
thank you for posting this. i've argued this point so many times when terrans whine about imba scouting from zerg.
Yeah, I don't know why but it seems terran players like whining all the time.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
Because Terran was clearly made to spend 150 minerals and scv building time to make a building for scouting.
Different races were made differently for a reason. Do you expect Terrans can actually afford to do that kind of thing? It would put them way behind in every single opener. No.
Dude you have something called a SCAN... it' basically the only unstoppable form of scouting, let the Zerg' have something... they are struggling and are a tough race to play...
On May 05 2012 09:45 Integra wrote: The problem with early TvsZ right now is that Terran can win by a coinflip. It's not about the X strategy allin possibility like 2 base banshee. It is the fact that Terran can totally shut out any early scout and go for an allin that could be anything from mass hellions +marauders, Mass tanks, Marines+SCV allin or mass banshees. Each strategy requires a different response from zerg in order to defend which is fucking hard if you cannot scout it, and by the time you see it move out there is a good chance you are too late to actually defend against it, if you even made the right choice in the first place.
I think IdrA put it best when he was talking about it with Day[9]; that it could not be scouted and there wasn't one build that could defend against every variation Terran can come up with.
Exactly this. Zerg needed a buff in scouting for almost a year and only now Blizzard implement it .
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aksfjh United States. May 05 2012 12:29. Posts 3681
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
Because Terran was clearly made to spend 150 minerals and scv building time to make a building for scouting.
Different races were made differently for a reason. Do you expect Terrans can actually afford to do that kind of thing? It would put them way behind in every single opener. No.
Dude you have something called a SCAN... it' basically the only unstoppable form of scouting, let the Zerg' have something... they are struggling and are a tough race to play...
It's also immobile and the most expensive form of scouting.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
Because Terran was clearly made to spend 150 minerals and scv building time to make a building for scouting.
Different races were made differently for a reason. Do you expect Terrans can actually afford to do that kind of thing? It would put them way behind in every single opener. No.
Dude you have something called a SCAN... it' basically the only unstoppable form of scouting, let the Zerg' have something... they are struggling and are a tough race to play...
It's also immobile and the most expensive form of scouting.
Its still pretty good though. You can scan Z main and can see lair or hive timing and even see his tech easily . You can't deny terran from scanning.
On May 05 2012 11:04 hli wrote: The overlord speed increase may be imba based on map... Therefore I think they should approach it differently. For example... Metalopolis close spawns, the Overlord can get a whole scout of and back away safely and be completely sure of gas/gasless builds. Korhal and Cloud, the overlord is guaranteed to safely arrive at the high ground of opponents natural.
okay it's time to post this again..while talking about imba scouting.
hahaha that settles that, overlord change = fine
Because Terran was clearly made to spend 150 minerals and scv building time to make a building for scouting.
Different races were made differently for a reason. Do you expect Terrans can actually afford to do that kind of thing? It would put them way behind in every single opener. No.
Dude you have something called a SCAN... it' basically the only unstoppable form of scouting, let the Zerg' have something... they are struggling and are a tough race to play...
It's also immobile and the most expensive form of scouting.
Its still pretty good though. You can scan Z main and can see lair or hive timing and even see his tech easily . You can't deny terran from scanning.
You could always spend like 150 mins/150 gas to make a fake building though, because scans don't see inside eggs.
Scans really aren't that useful scouting TvZ unless you're checking spire/infestation pit timings, and even then zergs can just hide the buildings on creep somewhere..
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MechanicalGook Afghanistan. May 05 2012 10:39. Posts 7
