problem is they could get picked off by infesors, and it could force a muta switch if your building alot of thors and defense its a good idea. in alot of air space maps it could be good but zergs position their overlords well.
Xylarthen United States. May 04 2012 17:25. Posts 137
WOW! Almost every post ignored the fact that the OP said that if landed Vikings were used that they should/would be used in the back of the army to try to keep them alive. They have 1 more range than Marauders, so they would be a bit more back.
I agree with pretty much everyone that they are hilariously bad considering their cost, DPS, HP and the fact that their upgrades are in a different tree than what you're going for, but in the right context, putting them on the ground could add 60-100 DPS to a fight from a sorta protected position. They could be lifted off again if you're getting crushed, but if that happens and you're playing mech you're probably gonna lose anyway.
It's a good idea, but if they have Broods, they should be in the air to combat that and on the ground, but their DPS doesn't sync well with stutter-step, making them less effective while on the run from something like Ultras, which they would survive in the air anyway. Finally, FG is tremendous against them due to being armored. I would say that if I see grounded Viks that I would focus more on Broods rather than Ultras seeing as there's a chance I might catch them on the ground for a round or two of BL fire as well as having more Corruptors for when you pick them up.
Again, a good idea, but situational at best and unlikely to force a Zerg player to tech-switch because of seeing half a dozen lame/expensive Roach-like units.
He who becomes a beast forgets the pain of being a man.
On May 04 2012 11:43 Belial88 wrote: When I face mech, I feel like the terran is struggling to have enough tanks/thors to take/defend their third, that getting vikings like this would be way too costly. Wouldn't banshees/ravens be better anyways?
In ZvT I always go bl/infestor - I never make ultras. If T makes lots of vikings, I just go heavier on corruptur/infestor. In extreme lategame I 'counter' mass viking wih queens and mass spores ( I push creepp and pplant tons of spores, not so much spines). Id rather remax and remake bls then go into ultras. Ultras are not cost efficient enough when split map is a very real concern.
On ladder I have a 71% win rate against T in midmasters.
I play mech vs zerg and have no trouble with broodlord based armies. I started my game with a large amount of BF helions into mass thors with only three or so tanks. I then chill out and push when i see they making the transition to broods, this is the time when i take my 4th and are hitting maxed for the first time. If you keep the helions in the back and thoors up the front with just a few SCVs on repair broodlords simple dont have the DPS to kill you off, you really dont even need many vikings or ravens at all. So I think its a really cool idea but at the same time i think the problem can be sloved other ways. Also wouldn't it make you really really weak to heavy roach agression, which is something that people meching already have a hard time with.
DelugeSC United States. May 04 2012 20:30. Posts 96
On May 04 2012 12:51 Rumudiez wrote: Yeahno, landed vikings are a cute idea (DPS of a stimmed marine, armored, ~150 health), but you can't use medivacs with them, and that alone makes them rather inefficient versus zerg. I tried doing a combination of bio with landed and aerial vikings in TvT, but marine + medivac beats it. I think the main issue with landed vikings is their physical size--they're larger than a stalker with the same range and half the mobility; not really as good as other numbers would suggest. ~Masters terran for the record.
What about when you pull SCVs for mech pushes? Would repairing them have a medivac-like effect on them?
Rumudiez has a good point that they Vikings have the DPS of a stimmed Marine, but it should be taken into account that you pay WAY too much to achieve that DPS, for an equal cost you get several Marines as well as 75 gas (so call it 1 Marienes and a Marauder to round it off) which combined have a much greater ability to deal damage than 1 Viking.
DelugeSC does have a decent idea with the SCVs but I gotta say they really only work effectively in a fight when being used on something like a Thor and maybe a tank. The tank if it needs to survive sniping with Muta fire for example, the SCV adds a bounce target and the repair can let it get another shot or two off. A Viking, or Vikings on the other hand will probably die too easily or cost you far too many SCVs to be reasonable considering cost as well as lost harvesting time. To top this thought off, it works with a Thor simply because they have so many hit points that with repair-ers it takes a significantly longer time to kill them.
SEA KarMa, you won't scare/deter a Zerg from getting Broods by showing a few Vikings. As a Zerg, you WANT to get BLs and have the ability to out-produce another player in an AA race. I WANT to see Vikings because if I'm worried about anything with Broods it's Ghosts. (less so now after the snipe patch)
He who becomes a beast forgets the pain of being a man.
Clarity_nl Netherlands. May 07 2012 10:10. Posts 3283
On May 04 2012 15:19 sinisterrtheory wrote: problem is they could get picked off by infesors, and it could force a muta switch if your building alot of thors and defense its a good idea. in alot of air space maps it could be good but zergs position their overlords well.
On May 04 2012 15:19 sinisterrtheory wrote: problem is they could get picked off by infesors
Infestors arent that good against vikings, ignoring the fact that the vikings would be in the back of the army
On May 04 2012 15:19 sinisterrtheory wrote: and it could force a muta switch if your building alot of thors
Not only do I not understand the relevance, but how do a lot of thors force mutas?
On May 04 2012 15:19 sinisterrtheory wrote: in alot of air space maps it could be good but zergs position their overlords well.
For the price, I think vikings have a lower DPS and durability than marines with medivac. Going blind vikings as a counter to the BL you're expecting is fine, but getting them as a part of your ground army is not. They're just not worth it.
Edit: And they have upgrades that they share with no other unit (that are actually used).
Last edit: 2012-05-07 21:07:27
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CaptainCrush United States. May 07 2012 21:26. Posts 784
The reason you dont see them land very often in late game TvZ is becuase at that point, a zerg can remake broods far faster than you can make vikings after you land (and lose) the ones you already have. I dont think its worth it unless you are sure that the landed vikings will both survive the fight, and end the engagement quickly.