TvP Lategame comment from Blizzard

Good players know enough to target my vikings (note, vikings are usually really clumped up when firing at objects) and split their forces enough so at least a few high templar and archons survive my EMP bath, which they can do (pre-splitting seems to be getting a bit more common than last year). There's also the good chance of me missing the templars with the EMP blast. Vikings are very brittle, and unless you have really good micro, you can't really dodge storms and blink stalkers + archons forever, maintaining distance and trying to pick off colossi while you also maintain control of your main army that's being decimated by colossi, archons, HT storms and chargelot warp-ins.

I honestly find TvP more hopeless in the late-game than I do TvZ.

You don't have to. If all his ranged stuff is shooting at your vikings, they should take out at least two of the colossus anyway if you have 14+, meanwhile his units have less shields, specifically his archons, his zealots all died, and now he has colossus/stalker effectively against marine/marauder/medivac/ghost with full upgrades, hmmm......

You assume that all the EMPs hit the whole army with nothing spared. That's hard to do, in my humble opinion. You also have to take into account that in late-game, Protoss usually has at least 10 gates for insta-replenishing supply that just disappeared.

Now if you could control 4 groups at the same time like Bisu does, I'm pretty sure you can take down the colossi while avoiding storms and EMPing at the same time, stutter-stepping the bio and retreating the ghosts, then spreading all the bio out into wide arcs to maximize damage potential while minimizing the risk of getting hit by AOE. I'm not sure if your average joe could do that though.

It's not really that hard when you have 30 EMP's at your fingertips. Notice that I said 14 vikings will take down a couple of colossus, while stutter stepped Bio will take out the Zealots, leaving a few colossus and some stalker/archon ripe for EMP's. Also, if you can play TvZ late-game, you can absolutely play TvP late-game. It's not actually that hard, most Terran players just don't know the right way to go about doing it.

I guess that means MMA, Taeja, jjakji, and MVP don't really know the right way of going about it huh.

Also, yes, it wouldn't be that hard if you had 30 EMPs. But what if you don't? Most of the time you don't, unless somehow the Protoss never bothered attacking you until the 20 something minute mark. Vikings are usually shift clicked onto individual colossus according to distance so you can actually focus on your main army not getting destroyed (which I do, because I don't have enough APM to actually control 3+ unit groups at the same time), or your ghosts dying before they get their EMPs out.

But anyways, I'm sure you can do all that and more. I, the average joe on the other hand, struggle to micro 2 control groups while minding my structures, upgrades and unit production.

TvZ on the other hand, you can just put 4 different full medivacs to 4 different zerg bases while paying attention to your siege line and vikings for the brood lords, as well as patrolling with your marines for infestors and corruptors. So much less intensive on the APM that I don't have.

See the latest Day9 daily on TvP found here: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-456-p1-dselect-vs-vilestate-6122025

In this daily, there are two periods described where people die most often: The 8-12 minute mark is where Protoss often die to a Marine/Marauder/Medivac timing, while 13-17 minutes is where Terran players often die to a colossus or Templar timing attack. After those two periods, Terran is favoured.

To not die in the 13-17 minute time period, use the scouting information gained from your push, and determine if he's going for HT's, or Colossus, or both. If HT's, then get a ghost academy and pump ghosts. If Colossus, get double starport and pump vikings. If both, get a double starport and a few ghosts. Just make sure to not-die.

The funny thing is, I don't have a problem with early and mid-game. I'm talking about late-game. But anyways, go on and ignore me.

You said that 'what if protoss attacks before you have critical mass of ghosts and vikings'. I said how to beat that and what time they usually push at. Are we on the same page here?

No we are not. I implied that ghosts would be using their energy for cloaking and EMPs constantly in battle, so the possibility of them having 30 EMPs ready and being able to shoot all of them out (without getting feedbacked in succession by a few HTs as well) during the time you actually face the death ball isn't that high commonly. Unless you keep your ghosts away for the length of time to get them all to max their energy, which would be absolutely retarded, because you have to utilize the ghosts strengths as much as you can whenever they're available.

I guess I should have spelled that out.

Anyway, you're really not helping regarding what to do when it's already the late-game. And to begin with, I only popped up in this thread to laugh at how futile full-mech was on TvP.

So thanks, but no thanks. Also, the people above were being sarcastic if you didn't notice. It probably stemmed from you sounding like a smartass thinking that you know better.

Good day.

T_T

Sorry, I'm bad at seeing sarcasm in black and white text.

Where dem replays at??

Dark.EX United States. May 05 2012 09:33. Posts 1504

Profile Blog #

On May 05 2012 09:28 SupLilSon wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2012 07:59 Fencer710 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On May 05 2012 05:09 KanoCoke wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2012 05:00 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:59 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:56 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:51 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:40 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:32 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:26 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:23 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:05 Fencer710 wrote:
[quote]
Are you.... EMPing and focusfiring colossus with vikings?

The funny thing is, I don't have a problem with early and mid-game. I'm talking about late-game. But anyways, go on and ignore me.

You said that 'what if protoss attacks before you have critical mass of ghosts and vikings'. I said how to beat that and what time they usually push at. Are we on the same page here?

T_T

Sorry, I'm bad at seeing sarcasm in black and white text.

Where dem replays at??

I'm not sure what you're talking about. :\

In reference to a previous post, those Terran players who are having trouble in TvP late-game and believe it is 'imba' if you will, I have posted a guide in the strategy section: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=335051

zEnVy United States. May 05 2012 09:36. Posts 445

Profile #

On May 05 2012 04:30 NexCa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Glad that a Grandmaster Terran knows what he's speaking about

Cloud things late game TvP favors Terran therefor it must be true.

Too bad ClouD is wrong about just about everything. He's too busy whining about how much money he doesn't make too put thought into much else.

aznball123 May 05 2012 09:40. Posts 2721

Profile #

I don't really blame Terrans for doing 1 base all in builds. The only way they can keep up with toss during the mid to late game is if they harass with multiple drops which requires a lot of apm and multi tasking, but most toss now a days sits a few stalkers or zealots to just deflect the drops easily and go for that 2 base all in.

Mmm, what to watch.

desarrisc Canada. May 05 2012 09:41. Posts 225

Profile Blog #

On May 05 2012 07:50 NHL Fever wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2012 07:32 desarrisc wrote:

On May 05 2012 06:49 NHL Fever wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On May 05 2012 06:18 desarrisc wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2012 06:02 NHL Fever wrote:

[B]
Just refuting your point that 1 ghost can't decide a battle as much as 1 high templar can, which is utterly ridiculous

Ghosts counter Protoss unit compositions easily as much as high templar counter Terran unit compositions.

As a random player, I find this argument pretty silly. It's pretty obvious templars are easier to you use and more effective than ghosts, at least in my experience. It's not hard to figure out why, but the basics are this:

1) Storm area is WAY bigger than emp. It is far harder to dodge a storm than an emp. Diameter is at least 2-3x larger, total area probably 6-7x or more.
2) Templar are overall cheaper.
3) There are multiple units that need specific and precise targeting by ghosts - sentries, templar, archon and depleting shields of stsrong units. This is hard to do on a busy battlefield, and it's very hard to pull of without dying, and useless if you screw it up even a little bit. For storm you just aim for any decent chunk of the army and it works, you are never confused as to what you aiming at. The only way storm is bad is if you completely miss everything. With ghosts you could hit large chunks of the toss army with emp but miss a couple key units, and you're dead.
4) Ghosts die after use. They need to be in front for range and get killed, and they can't run away cause their slow. Templar transform into a very strong unit after use = recyclable.
5) Ghosts take a long time to build, templar are insta-build from anywhere. Its much easier and faster to work templar into your composition when needed, as a result.
6) Templar are extremely good both in army, and defending in base. Ghosts not so.
7) Ghosts needs racks with tech lab, which will probably be 50-60% of players rax. Templar can be made from any available gate.
8) Ghosts also need obs to be killed, which is very hard to do when there are a ton of units around even if you have detection. Even pros seem to have trouble with this.

I have been frustrated with T as P, and with P as T, I understand where you are coming from. But ghosts are as good as templar? No way. They are both not as good and harder to incorporate because of basic game mechanics.

1) Currently Storm area = EMP area. They are both 1.5 radius. (Liquipedia) Please check your facts before stating them as facts.

2) Templars cost heavier on gas, and overall is "cheaper" but Ghosts have passive attack ability, higher movespeed, researchable cloaking and anti-caster snipe.

3) Overgeneralization. Ghosts usually need to lead the terran army in engagements, scan to kill obs, then cloak and EMP. That way you guarantee hitting the major units.

4) Untrue. Snipe observers, then cloak. Protoss has no secondary detection method. Also, high templar into archon formation separated from main army equates to dead archons as well. Your logic, i'm sorry to say, is non sequitor in this case.

5) True, but High templar takes additonal 40 in game seconds to storm, whereas ghosts spawn with enough energy to EMP with the energy upgrade.

6) True, but different units are different. Templar can hold off drops, but same goes for small army of MM in base denies protoss drops too.

7) Tech lab builds relatively quickly and is cheap. The price of add-on is to accomodate for terran building's ability to float.

8) Somewhat true, but if the obs is in the centre of deathball, EMP-ing the army is easier because of the vision deficit. If observer is out too front of army, it is easy to kill the observer with scan and shoot.

I'm sorry, different units may be different, but HT is not necessarily "better" than the ghost.

1) Ok fair enough, I'm mistaken.

2) Passive attack capability is useless for ghosts. If you are close enough to use it, you are about to lose all your ghosts and they are too valuable for general duty. No pros make any significant use of regular attack. Passive attack occurs in one circumstance - after you just lost your whole army, are getting overrun and ghosts could not run away. In such a circumstance, I'm not sure if they kill a single unit.

3) Its very hard to scan to kill obs when obs is within other army units. Usually you will die to collosus or zealots before close enough

4) Observers are not bio, snipe does work on them. It rarely matters that archon formation cannot move, as terran army is generally moving backwards during battles to kite, not forwards. I cannot remember the last time I lost any significant amount of archons while forming.

5) This is far outwieghed by the length of time it takes to build ghosts and get them to the battle. Fewer building make them, they need to build, then they need to walk there...slowly with no stim.

6) Yes but the sacrifice in units is less, and you need to kite your units if the drop is anything larger than 3 zealots taking up apm.

7) A rax has only 1 add-on at a time. If you constantly switch, you still only have as many tech lab as you built. If your idea of quick ghosts is to take time and tons of apm to suddently lift all rax from reactors, find space for them on the map, build tech labs, build ghosts (long), then bring ghosts to battle.....well you obviously don't play terran. Shift-spam hotkey for templar is scientifically speaking...about a million times faster than that. Which I happily benefit from when I get toss

8) No doubt I've emp'd my share of clumped deathballs. But the point is that if you emp 95% of the entire army, but miss a 2 or 3 key units elsewhere, you lose that battle. If you hit ANY decent chunk of terran ball with storm, that's a win folks.

9) I should add that ghosts need 2 upgrades, while templar need only storm to be extremely useful

Anyway I'm not trying to apologize for terran, I don't care which race the game randomizes me too. I'm just saying that obviously players who play a certain race with ALWAYS see all the advantages of the other guys units, and I know from routine experience that templar are both easier to make and easier to use. Maybe with more time if I become expert, that gap may narrow. But jugding from gsl's the past few seasons, pros are finding the same thing.

2)/4) My terminology for use of "snipe" was to indicate regular attack by the ghost. It 3 shots obs with regular attack. My apologies. Also, a couple of vikings with scan takes obs out in 1 shot i believe.

3)/8) Seems to address a same point. I think this is an overstatement, and it depends on how the armies engage. That 2/3 units missed = lost game. It's matter of where you engage the protoss force. If you engage at a choke, you will lose even if you EMP everything and the protoss has colossi. If you engage in open space, you will win even if protoss has multiple storms left over. If the situation is bad, terran force can outrun protoss army.

5) is still a non point. Different race mechanics doesn't mean one is better than the other. Zerg can make 10 infestors at once with larvae saved up. And insta fungals when out. Fresh warp in HT needs energy to storm. Fresh made ghost rallys to the army, then has EMP energy and a bit more (travel time).

6) is still non logic. HT only completely denies drops when the medivac has more energy than it has it has hp. Otherwise warp in cycle is needed to deny the remainder of units inside. You'll need to tie up at least 8 supply (3 zealot warp + 1 ht) to counter the drop. If you tie up 8 supply of mm, you essentially have same counter to warp prism drop (which is significantly weaker relative to medivac drop, unless playing risky storm drops/immortal drops)

7) Pro Terrans in late game get ridiculous number of barracks and addons. (good late game terrans get upwards of 7 reactor rax and 7 techrax on 4 base.) Your comment of lifting/switching rax is only done early/mid game, and not practical late game. Easier to throw down multiple rax in advance with the MULE mechanic giving large surplus of minerals. And late game terran post ups doesn't require a lot of gas, so gas cost is irrelevant.

9) This is simply wrong. To get HT: You need gate->cyber(warp gate)->twilight council -> templar archive-> storm upgrade
To get ghost: You need barracks(and tech lab) -> ghost academy -> ghost energy -> ghost cloak ->(optional factory ->nuke)

Full High Templar with all the upgrade takes longer and still costs more after the Full ghost tech. Also, it's heavier on gas, which is vital to any strong protoss play (Robo/upgrades/Templar)

So based on what the pros are saying, and what those of us who play both are saying, what is your theory as to why we find templar easier than ghosts? Other than the obvious reasons, do you have a thought as to why this would be? If so I would love to hear it, because I wouldn't mind winning a TvP late game once in awhile, and I would likewise enjoy the challenge of PvT late game that involves something more than me hitting shift+t-t-t- a-move, pylon, win. Because right now, this is how it goes 80-90% of the time.

Late game TvP is basically Terran picking away at the power units and hitting where the death ball isn't. Terran army is superior in smaller number relative to the smaller number of protoss "death ball."

You use vikings to pick away at colossus from a good point (over chasm/over cliffs). And use ghosts to snipe away any Parting style HTs (Individual HTs just roaming and storming the main army).

Well you may argue that this is implausible because the deathball is always moving together. That's why you send small number of forces (25 supply or so: 12ish marines, 4 marauders and 2 medivacs, this is about the supply count you can replenish within one cycle of production off the raxes on 3 saturated base, and you can usually save the medivacs.) to make the deathball to move around. Since HT/Collosi move slower than the rest of the army, it gives you opportunities to kill those key units. IF the protoss plays it safe and tries to keep the deathball together, your 25 supply or so of MMM can easily snipe a nexus/key structures. Also, 25 supply of MMM is hard to kill with one warp in cycle of equivalent gateway units.

Another scenario is a base race. MMMVG kills protoss base faster than terran can, but this turns out to who plays smarter since terran can save more production facility/OCs with floating and resume production quicker. And this is quite fair PvT imho.

So basically late game TvP is a match of how you engage, and current plays seen by a lot of unsuccessful Terrans is trying to straight up fight Protoss deathball to Terran ball. It's tough to pull that off. (mass EMP + target firing colossi with vikings +good kiting with MM) You have to pull a Thorzain and kill the protoss with a spoon in an agonizing gruesome death by doing small hitsquads to keep protoss contained, while you get more bases and production. Almost a Zerg-esque late game mentality.

"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]

Genome852 United States. May 05 2012 09:44. Posts 790

Profile Blog #

^I would never want to base race against a toss in TvP. Sure you can lift buildings... but you would be eventually forced into a direct confrontation which will probably end badly for you. You won't be able to produce units because your supply cap would be too low and in the red.

Anyways, all matchups should be balanced at all points in the game IMO... that doesn't mean they have to be symmetrical. There should be tactics for every race to have a 50% win ratio against equally skilled players at any point in the game.

Last edit: 2012-05-05 09:47:25

Snoodles May 05 2012 10:06. Posts 393

Profile #

At this point blizzard has made it clear that they wont do anything until the numbers talk. If there were a sudden significant reduction in Terrans on the ladder, like a boycott, you'd have your buff in a week. Otherwise, keep banging your head against a brick wall.

VPCursed May 05 2012 10:11. Posts 1038

Profile Blog #

I'm a gm terran and laid a comment out earlier about making tanks 2 supply to give terran a slight buff against toss and zerg in the late-game.. any thoughts? If they were 2 supply they wouldn't cut into the composition nearly as much vs P and would allow for imho a strong transition in the later mid-game to help set up for late-game.. would also help vs z as they like to switch between brood/ultra a'lot and this would just help terran create a more balanced army instead of being lopsided with tanks when they need vikings or so

Last edit: 2012-05-05 10:12:05

NHL Fever Canada. May 05 2012 10:18. Posts 81

Profile #

On May 05 2012 09:41 desarrisc wrote:

So basically late game TvP is a match of how you engage, and current plays seen by a lot of unsuccessful Terrans is trying to straight up fight Protoss deathball to Terran ball. It's tough to pull that off. (mass EMP + target firing colossi with vikings +good kiting with MM) You have to pull a Thorzain and kill the protoss with a spoon in an agonizing gruesome death by doing small hitsquads to keep protoss contained, while you get more bases and production. Almost a Zerg-esque late game mentality.

No what you see is terrans trying to do that and it generally not working. With one templar and a round of warpin, a base is defended. Add a few canons even more so. Send 25 supply army to expansion....welcome to toss main army just moves into your base and camps production and its over. They lose a few units in the process, warp in at home and clean up the rest of the drop. Boy have I seen that rerun more than once....from both sides

There are more options when all of your units can do some kind of damage to all the other guys units. Obviously some combos are much stronger than others. But this is severely skewed for terran: If collosus, you need vikings. When collosus are gone, vikings are completely useless, costly units. Ghosts are only useful to emp casters or kill templar. In contrast, everything in toss army is useful at nearly all times vs terran army. Overmaking units for terran such as vikings, is much more costly than overmaking units for toss. Recall I play toss just like you. For terran the balance has to be perfect, for toss it just has to be not completely absurd, and involve templar.

Everyone knows that terran has medivac mobility. The problem is not that nobody has thought of that, the problem is that it doensn`t do much against good toss players. What you have suggested makes sense in theory, and its not impossible. Its just way harder to do than what toss has to do to get equal results. Hence the current pro results. Hence the current high-level race win ratios. Hence the distribution of races in the higher leagues. This is not imaginary, its just what is happening. When terran has rediculous snipe ability and huge emp fiield, I recognized that saw the results. Right now toss has the advantage.

But anyway the question was not what do you, who does not play terran, think should work in theory for terran. The question was why do people who play both find that templars are easier to produce and use than ghosts. Why is the upper level talk about protoss late game being too strong.

Last edit: 2012-05-05 10:24:18

pallad Poland. May 05 2012 10:21. Posts 1713

Profile #

Another balance topic...
I have one sugestion , maby everyone start post link to BN account ? that we all can see ladder league and points ?
So many stupid posts here omg ( yes yes i know that , someone gonna Quote me , and write my post is stupid , maby yes , maby no )

If you are bronze , silver etc... dont post in balance disscusion topic's , let this disscusion for player's that are masters+

SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD

Snoodles May 05 2012 10:26. Posts 393

Profile #

On May 05 2012 10:21 pallad wrote:
Another balance topic...
I have one sugestion , maby everyone start post link to BN account ? that we all can see ladder league and points ?
So many stupid posts here omg ( yes yes i know that , someone gonna Quote me , and write my post is stupid , maby yes , maby no )

If you are bronze , silver etc... dont post in balance disscusion topic's , let this disscusion for player's that are masters+

Do you mind brushing up the punctuation a bit? It doesn't need to be perfect, but right now it's very hard to read. My brain was stutter stepping.

SupLilSon Malaysia. May 05 2012 10:30. Posts 3166

Profile #

On May 05 2012 09:33 Fencer710 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2012 09:28 SupLilSon wrote:

On May 05 2012 07:59 Fencer710 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On May 05 2012 05:09 KanoCoke wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2012 05:00 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:59 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:56 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:51 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:40 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:32 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:26 Fencer710 wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:23 KanoCoke wrote:

On May 05 2012 04:05 Fencer710 wrote:
[quote]
Are you.... EMPing and focusfiring colossus with vikings?

The funny thing is, I don't have a problem with early and mid-game. I'm talking about late-game. But anyways, go on and ignore me.

You said that 'what if protoss attacks before you have critical mass of ghosts and vikings'. I said how to beat that and what time they usually push at. Are we on the same page here?

T_T

Sorry, I'm bad at seeing sarcasm in black and white text.

Where dem replays at??

You said you get stomped lategame PvT... but you're a Terran player? Also the guide is pretty elementary, you don't mention anything novel or unique to your style (except maybe getting all the building ups). Any part where you might have explained something you just linked to a Day9 video. Overall, everything in that guide is stuff any diamond+ Terran is doing.

Heavenlee United States. May 05 2012 10:43. Posts 673

Profile #

I loved complaining in the sad zealot days all the time (you know, when it was much more terran-favored than it is protoss-favored now) so I understand the appeal. I just hope you guys realize that your constant ten page extremely biased essays on the strength of high templar versus ghosts are meaningless and you're just doing it to hear yourself whine. You aren't going to convince anyone and in fact most of this thread is just a bunch of people complaining about protoss then other terrans going "yes, I agree, let me also expand on this point of why this game is RETARDED". It's just completely unproductive nonsense and anytime someone proposes anything it gets completely shut down with theorycrafting.

Also look into the possibility that you are just complete garbage at the matchup and all those people agreeing with you, are just because they are the vocal amount that are also bad at it.

Last edit: 2012-05-05 10:45:52

captainwaffles United States. May 05 2012 10:48. Posts 842

Profile Blog #

Such a demoralizing post from Blizzard. If they aren't going to try and balance the MU whats the point even playing it? Might as well just allin every game against toss since playing for the late game is clearly a big no-no.

Be excellent to each other. Party on, dudes!

Scila Canada. May 05 2012 10:56. Posts 1808

Profile #

They agree that late game Terran is weak, but say it's ok...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

IMoperator May 05 2012 10:57. Posts 1654

Profile #

On May 05 2012 10:43 Heavenlee wrote:
I loved complaining in the sad zealot days all the time (you know, when it was much more terran-favored than it is protoss-favored now) so I understand the appeal. I just hope you guys realize that your constant ten page extremely biased essays on the strength of high templar versus ghosts are meaningless and you're just doing it to hear yourself whine. You aren't going to convince anyone and in fact most of this thread is just a bunch of people complaining about protoss then other terrans going "yes, I agree, let me also expand on this point of why this game is RETARDED". It's just completely unproductive nonsense and anytime someone proposes anything it gets completely shut down with theorycrafting.

Also look into the possibility that you are just complete garbage at the matchup and all those people agreeing with you, are just because they are the vocal amount that are also bad at it.

There's been multiple terran pros that have been vocal about TvP so if they're "complete garbage" at the matchup I guess we shouldn't ever talk about balance right?

terran

Shiori May 05 2012 11:07. Posts 2816

Profile Blog #

On May 05 2012 10:57 IMoperator wrote:

Show nested quote +

There's been multiple terran pros that have been vocal about TvP so if they're "complete garbage" at the matchup I guess we shouldn't ever talk about balance right?

I'm genuinely curious as to who these pros are. I've yet to hear a top Korean complain in a serious interview. No, Ganzi trolling his chat on stream doesn't count

.

Not trying to flame you, as I really don't know who said what. Please let me know.

Sylfyre Australia. May 05 2012 11:08. Posts 217

Profile #

I think it's an interesting concept, that different races have to approach the match ups differently and all, but I feel like saying "terran have to do damage mid game or they are behind" locks the players into a certain playstyle, which kinda sucks because I think dynamic play is the best thing in sc2.

aZealot New Zealand. May 05 2012 11:09. Posts 1390

Profile #

I'd also be wary of taking pros' words at face value. They have a vested interest as they play that race for their livelihood. Of course they want a buff to their race and a nerf to others. This is not to say that all pros are like that - but it does mean that caution is advised when pros start talking about the state of the game. Some players seem to have the ability to rise above their race, see the whole picture and maybe suggest reasonable solutions - like say Nony, Stephano, Thorzain from the foreigner players. Their opinions on balance etc are probably worth taking on board. As for other players, probably not so much.

Last edit: 2012-05-05 11:13:37

"Consider fully, act decisively" - Jigoro Kano

captainwaffles United States. May 05 2012 11:17. Posts 842

Profile Blog #

On May 05 2012 11:07 Shiori wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm genuinely curious as to who these pros are. I've yet to hear a top Korean complain in a serious interview. No, Ganzi trolling his chat on stream doesn't count

.

Not trying to flame you, as I really don't know who said what. Please let me know.

Jinro
BeastyQT
Kas
qxc (although he also always follows up with "it doesn't matter, part of my job being a pro... etc")

Thats off the top of my head, can't think of anyone else atm but if you search you'll find more.

Be excellent to each other. Party on, dudes!