| ROOTheognis United States. May 04 2012 15:37. Posts 4409 | Profile Blog # |
On May 04 2012 15:21 SupLilSon wrote:
Time to start practicing those all-ins!
Where have you been? Should have been practicing those for atleast the past year :D |
| | If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me! |
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| DaemonX May 04 2012 15:38. Posts 525 | Profile # |
I couldn't get past the first page without responding to all the stupidity and fail being posted.
I can't believe the number of teamliquid posters who just cannot comprehend what they are reading - including the OP.
Blizzard didn't say that Terran can't win lategame. They didn't say this. Nor did their statement even entail that Terran had to all-in before 3-base.
They said that if you do NO damage and are completely passive, you will reach a point where you can't beat their army as terran.
This is not a fucking revelation.
It's self evident to anyone above Gold league. This is the same as TvZ! The eco ramp of the other races faster than than terran...we have always known this. Chrono boost and queen injects make workers faster than CCs, No duh. This is not news. This is not even noteworthy.
What Blizzard's statement means is simply "if you know how to play terran you can win as terran". As a terran I think that's pretty fair enough. Playing terran well doesn't mean bubbling your opponent out for 18 minutes then attacking with tier 3. This works for protoss.
I would fucking HATE if it worked for terran - then we would be back to season 1-2 fultech deathball all-ins after 15 minutes of NOTHING every BLOODY game, except now 4 base instead of 2. Fuck that, I say.
I'm happy to call Blizzard out when they are retarded, but this is not one of those times. |
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| SolidMoose United States. May 04 2012 15:39. Posts 1100 | Profile # |
Why do people justify imbalances because of past imbalances? That makes no sense. People want a balanced game, not a game that constantly favors one race or the other. But mostly everyone saying this is a protoss. |
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 Fission May 04 2012 15:40. Posts 730 | Profile Blog # |
What's the tvp win rate in code S this season? 5%? 10%? Less?
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| dragonchaser May 04 2012 15:40. Posts 1 | Profile # |
I think what Blizzard is saying is quite simple people: THEY WANT TO SEE THE PLAY EVOLVE A BIT BEFORE THEY START MAKING BALANCE CHANGES!!!
Making profound and deep changes to the very fundamental structure of the game are not something to be taken lightly. What is it with this new culture of people wanting everything now, NOW, NOW GODDAMIT! Shit, NOW isn't even soon enough anymore people want it even sooner.
Blizzard is doing the right thing here people. They are keeping their eye on the situation. I know people are all butt hurt because there aren't a million Terrans in this latest GSL but the non-sense being derived because of it seriously needs to be curtailed.
Honestly, in spite of how well Toss is doing I fear for what the future holds for us Toss players. Just as has happened with us and Terran, the game WILL evolve and soon we'll hear the all too familiar cries of TERRAN IMBA!!! WHaaaa!!!
Is it really that hard to notice the cyclical nature of the game here people? If Blizzard made a change every time the fan-base had one of their little shitfits god only knows how absurd things would be. Thank god Blizzard isn't that stupid. Why can't the fans exude a little most patience and understanding in the nature of a game as complex as Starcraft?
Changes that are too hastily made negatively impact the game in the WORST way because they don't allow the players the opportunity to do perhaps the most important aspect of the game: the continuously evolve strategies and tactics according to what the current meta game dictates. I'm not saying there are no scenarios where things need to be nerfed or buffed but Blizzard is WISELY choosing very, very carefully when to make these changes because, like I said, they WANT TO SEE THE GAME EVOLVE and making those changes doesn't give the best players their chance to evolve.
I also want to witness the evolution of the game. That is part of what separates Starcraft from every other game! Its continuous evolution! Only a game with the potential of SC could be enjoyed for over a decade, I don't care what country it is. Its the games ability to evolve that makes it so fucking amazing.
While I'm loving this era of Protoss dominance, it absolutely WILL NOT LAST. It cannot! As Protoss players we need to already start getting ready for the time when Terrans start having all the answers and win everything in sight again. Them or the bugs, we need to stay vigilant here people! Just because what we're currently doing is working, it won't always be so and if it is, then Blizzard is fully within their rights to make the appropriate fundamental changes.
Until then, lets sit back and let things evolve a bit more shall we? |
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 Aunvilgod May 04 2012 15:42. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
| I think it is too early to make any good changes. I would want to see next GSL´s results before I can say TvP is imbalanced. |
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| Wrongspeedy United States. May 04 2012 15:43. Posts 1521 | Profile Blog # |
On May 04 2012 15:39 SolidMoose wrote:Why do people justify imbalances because of past imbalances? That makes no sense. People want a balanced game, not a game that constantly favors one race or the other. But mostly everyone saying this is a protoss.
How exactly was it imbalanced before (And what has changed besides builds)? Protoss players knew they needed splash damage to deal with Bio. Some of them complained, some of them didn't. This thread needs to be retitled Terran QQ Thread.
Everyone saying TvP is imbalanced in this thread is Terran? What is your point? This thread needs to be closed because its full of whiney babies (not everyone, just finding it hard to pick them out) who want their race to be stronger so it will be easier for them to win games. God I'm having flashbacks to Battlenet forums.Last edit: 2012-05-04 15:48:06 |
| | It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill |
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| ant885 United States. May 04 2012 15:46. Posts 44 | Profile # |
Pretty sure protoss has to do some middish game agression to zerg, otherwise if both sitback and don't attack zerg has the advatange going into the late game...
Seems like blizzard is okay with it in pvz, as well as tvp |
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| nOondn May 04 2012 15:47. Posts 564 | Profile # |
Sound like blizzard is dumb enough to state that we need to do damage in midgame to take advantage in to lategame. Ok i will lecture you dumb blizzard nowadays with currant map pool it's easy for Protoss to defend the aggression from Terran (Drop,Multiprong Attack) with blink stalker,Ht,Cannon,FF etc that i experience from master level on kr server.So what can we doing damage dumb blizzard ? fake drop ? fake attack ? multiprong attack ? it doesn't work any more ,Becuase Protoss know how to play , They just defend in their base untill 3-3 with superior tech (HT,Colo) and start to destroy Terran.
So I guess,Next Season we'll see more cheese play from Terran to destroy P and it must be "FUN" to watch cough cough .. Naniwa Vs MVP
sorry for my bad english.
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| | Mid Master Terran @ kr server fighting !!! |
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| Alacast United States. May 04 2012 15:51. Posts 187 | Profile # |
Applying successful midgame pressure != going all in. There are plenty of ways to be active around the map and punish a complacent Protoss without sacrificing late-game strength. Obviously the onus is on the Terran player's shoulder to make something happen, which in turn gives the impression that the match-up is more difficult to play given equally-skilled opponents.
While this may be true to some degree, Starcraft isn't a game designed for complacency and a "good enough" mindset. There will always be ways you are forced to improve because there are literally thousands of people better than you. Sure, you may be a lower rank w/in your division comparatively, but none of that matters; what matters is that you are forced to improve your play every game you walk into. Yes it's frustrating to lose to what you perceive as an inferior opponent because "x is imba," but it just makes you feel even better inside when you crush them with your new-found skills! |
| | Let us not rail about justice as long as we have arms and the freedom to use them. -Frank Herbert |
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| dronefarm United States. May 04 2012 15:52. Posts 260 | Profile Blog # |
On May 04 2012 15:46 ant885 wrote:
Pretty sure protoss has to do some middish game agression to zerg, otherwise if both sitback and don't attack zerg has the advatange going into the late game...
Seems like blizzard is okay with it in pvz, as well as tvp
Nope, We see plenty of games where protoss takes a fast third and never attacks, gets a mothership, keeps expanding and shits on zergs that go BL. |
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| Belha Italy. May 04 2012 15:54. Posts 2350 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 15:12 dronefarm wrote:
Terran has been complaining about lategame protoss for a long, long ass time. Avilo, in fact, has ran a fucking political campaign about how terran is so useless lategame versus protoss since probably around a year ago.
Avilo was complaining about terran balance (for underpowered) since very earlier patches , when T have sick win%. So being honest, as a daily TL reader, i don't care what that guy says now that win% are much more balanced.Last edit: 2012-05-04 16:01:27 |
| | Please Blizz buff speevacs for TvP! |
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| Sif_ Brazil. May 04 2012 15:54. Posts 669 | Profile # |
i love how blizzard keeps mentioning ladder % when their system is built to deliver us a 50% winrate.
and i also feel like the matchup is hardest at low-mid masters, where players cant multitask or micro exceptionally well and that favors the protoss heavily in engagements |
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| foxmulder_ms United States. May 04 2012 15:58. Posts 130 | Profile # |
Well, nice look at the things. I see no balance issue at all. If anything, it is still damn hard to scout terran at early game so they have a very strong advantage compared to other two races at the beginning. Together with their massive options, it is a nightmare to figure out what terran is doing. When you are not expecting what's coming, you are in biiiiiiiiig trouble against terran.
So, basically, root of the balance issues in sc2 is the early terran option richness. They can do massive econ builds like three early CCs or massive rushes like 2 rax all ins. Banshees, hellions, marauders.... all viable and when not expected deadly.. |
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| Azzur Australia. May 04 2012 15:58. Posts 5839 | Profile Blog # |
Well, it's not surprising Blizzard's conclusion on TvP lategame, given all the evidence that we're seeing.
Also, consider that Blizzard err's on the side of caution - this means that TvP lategame is even more unbalanced than their statements would suggest.Last edit: 2012-05-04 15:58:37 |
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| OutOfMyMind_pro Bulgaria. May 04 2012 15:58. Posts 210 | Profile # |
I guess bad players will whine while others make things happen as always.
There is nothing really wrong with the current state of PvT. In fact its quiet funny how Terrans keep using mainly tier 1 units and still have an even winning record against Protoss players who use the full potential of their race.
Lets be real for a second - most of the Terrans are so bad that they would rather scan 50 times than make a raven. The vocal majority of the whining people are such players. There are still people who try to convince us that Terran is weak. The most dominant race since the launch of the game. The only race in the game who can play two completely different styles and even a mixed one between the two. The race with the best static defence in the game. That race ladies and gents is "weak".
Last edit: 2012-05-04 15:59:36 |
| | Always remember KT Violet |
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| EngrishTeacher China. May 04 2012 16:00. Posts 428 | Profile Blog # |
| Problem is, at the higher levels of play where the players are quite adept at deflecting "mid-game pushes", the protoss DOES get into the late-game relatively unharmed. |
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| ant885 United States. May 04 2012 16:02. Posts 44 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 15:52 dronefarm wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 15:46 ant885 wrote:
Pretty sure protoss has to do some middish game agression to zerg, otherwise if both sitback and don't attack zerg has the advatange going into the late game...
Seems like blizzard is okay with it in pvz, as well as tvp
Nope, We see plenty of games where protoss takes a fast third and never attacks, gets a mothership, keeps expanding and shits on zergs that go BL.
The only game I've ever seen like that was white ra vs stephano. If you take a reasonably fast third (9-11 mins or something) and tech to mothership you'll just be overrun by roaches. If you do nothing to disrupt zerg you're pretty much going to lose to stephano style if they go for that (perhaps that is changing though), which we can say is late game as it's 200/200, though it happens later in tvp.
Pretty sure thorzain said he doesn't lose very late game tvp when he has like 20+ ghosts.
So from a pvz perspective, it's like surviving 12minute roach maxout to get mothership and have a good chance of winning (but you're not going to survive that if you do no damage). Terran needs to survive that earlyish lategame stage to get to that strong high ghost count, but if you don't disrupt the protoss you're probably not goign to survive it (like pvz..) |
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| Azzur Australia. May 04 2012 16:02. Posts 5839 | Profile Blog # |
On May 04 2012 15:58 OutOfMyMind_pro wrote:
I guess bad players will whine while others make things happen as always.
There is nothing really wrong with the current state of PvT. In fact its quiet funny how Terrans keep using mainly tier 1 units and still have an even winning record against Protoss players who use the full potential of their race.
Lets be real for a second - most of the Terrans are so bad that they would rather scan 50 times than make a raven. The vocal majority of the whining people are such players. There are still people who try to convince us that Terran is weak. The most dominant race since the launch of the game. The only race in the game who can play two completely different styles and even a mixed one between the two. The race with the best static defence in the game. That race ladies and gents is "weak".
Interesting that this statement is coming from a protoss player...
I like how you ignore alot of evidence and even the conclusions drawn by (the conservative) Blizzard. |
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| hoivenmayven United States. May 04 2012 16:03. Posts 132 | Profile # |
That would be a disturbing philosophy that the OP is describing but at no point did he say that was Blizzard's philosophy. He simply said if you don't do anything in the mid game you will die to Protoss. So be active and do all the damage you can in the midgame and late game playing field will be more favorable.... that's not news. This is coming from a T with own thoughts on balance that don't need discussing here. It's been known for months that if you sit and turtle as a T without being active, dropping, pushing your midgame advantage, you will die to colossus HT and dancing zealots....
This is why Blizzard never says anything with substance. No benefit. |
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