Do you actually believe stuff like this because you know the facts, or because you've been told that it's true? Statements like the above really further destroy the very small amount of credibility you have.
Look why do you waste your time rhetoricly trying to convince everyone what a shitty idea it is ? there is 80% of you guys that totaly agree with you.
Why do people tell you it's a bad idea? I can think of two reasons:
1. It is a bad idea. They get enjoyment out of shining a light on the lack of logic and/or understanding of the world which makes this (that it's a bad idea) apparent.
2. It's fucking dangerous. This line of thinking gets you to a dictatorship. Not only that but you would ignore everything essential (like, say, motivation, or a system of fair distribution) and that would lead to things such as mass starvation, and bordering outright chaos as you've destroyed society.
Wanting to end world suffering is noble but my god be realistic about it. And as for the rest of your post, no, money isn't going anywhere. The financial system as-is will probably get a do-over next crisis (mainly harder banking regulation), but that's not really removing money, now is it?
Your opinion can save lives shorten suffering bring warmth and understanding to the world. Just like your opinion right now kills causes suffering starves people and breeds ignorance. This is not a game this is our world being pillaged and burned.
Even if we accept this emotional blackmailing nonsense as being okay to use in argument, less suffering, starvation, and true ignorance has been the result of the modern economic system.
I have seen minds break identities shattered when faced with the enourmous suffering that is on display all over the poor world. People ask themself why is this happening? it takes discipline to realise that people are all victims of their culture thus so blinded. Because you feel like screaming at anyone who ever dares defend and/or justify the suffering and inefficiency that goes on with flaring rhetoric.
Most people in the movements arent crazy conspiracy theorists their compassionate people that wanna work for mankind rather then some ideology or country.
1. It is a bad idea. They get enjoyment out of shining a light on the lack of logic and/or understanding of the world which makes this (that it's a bad idea) apparent
So dive in tell what about it thats a bad idea discuss and disect it go to the sources we offer say what they say that is illogical that is not based on facts. All you spit out are empty rheotric you havent offered one source one point to back you up and you havent even been specific about what it is that wont work. How many people are you willing to kill to be right. How much information are you willing to disregard that dont strengthen your claim.
Communism is evil. It has killed more people than fascism. I'm sure you guys believe that "this time it will be different" or that "the communism you speak of wasn't real communism" but it's not - it's the same thing. You're making the same arguments the pigs in 'Animal Farm' made.
Whats this talk about communism? is that realy the only refreance you have to things you cannot understand.
Do you actually believe stuff like this because you know the facts, or because you've been told that it's true? Statements like the above really further destroy the very small amount of credibility you have.
Look why do you waste your time rhetoricly trying to convince everyone what a shitty idea it is ? there is 80% of you guys that totaly agree with you.
This is coming and its not a matter of if its a matter of when. And the longer the when takes the more people are gonna die and suffer and the more we will have wasted and polluted our planet.
Your opinion can save lives shorten suffering bring warmth and understanding to the world. Just like your opinion right now kills causes suffering starves people and breeds ignorance. This is not a game this is our world being pillaged and burned.
I urge all of you to watch the sources look at the videos, it is not a joke it is a matter of life and death.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Communism is evil. It has killed more people than fascism. I'm sure you guys believe that "this time it will be different" or that "the communism you speak of wasn't real communism" but it's not - it's the same thing. You're making the same arguments the pigs in 'Animal Farm' made.
You say 'new technology and automation will lead to abundance!'
The pigs said 'we'll build a windmill and live happy!'
Whats this talk about communism? is that realy the only refreance you have to things you cannot understand.
Free World Charter is communism.
Same with RBE.
Same with Zeitgeist.
It's all communism.
communism is a monetary ideology. not a RBE automated society. It is your lack of understanding and refreances that forced your brain to make this connection. I assure you i have no fondness of sending people to siberia to die in gulags. But all i can tell you is to study the material and then see if you will reach a diffrent conclussion.
www.youtube.com/user/DeliCiousTZM
DeepElemBlues United States. May 16 2012 12:04. Posts 3681
Whats this talk about communism? is that realy the only refreance you have to things you cannot understand.
Free World Charter is communism.
Same with RBE.
Same with Zeitgeist.
It's all communism.
communism is a monetary ideology. not a RBE automated society. It is your lack of understanding and refreances that forced your brain to make this connection. I assure you i have no fondness of sending people to siberia to die in gulags. But all i can tell you is to study the material and then see if you will reach a diffrent conclussion.
[Anarchist communism ... is a theory of anarchism which advocates the abolition of the state, markets, money, capitalism and private property ..., and in favor of common ownership of the means of production, direct democracy and a horizontal network of voluntary associations and workers' councils with production and consumption based on the guiding principle: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".]
On May 16 2012 12:04 DeepElemBlues wrote: RBE is communism with money being replaced by the buzzwords "efficiency," "utility," and "resources."
Call it what you like it is irrelevant only what is being proposed it, If you understood what is being proposed you would be a better human being. All i feel nowadays is shame for how patheticly ignorant we are as humans and i feel personaly ashemed for not being able to reach you i will try and better myself for the both of us.
Whats this talk about communism? is that realy the only refreance you have to things you cannot understand.
Free World Charter is communism.
Same with RBE.
Same with Zeitgeist.
It's all communism.
communism is a monetary ideology. not a RBE automated society. It is your lack of understanding and refreances that forced your brain to make this connection. I assure you i have no fondness of sending people to siberia to die in gulags. But all i can tell you is to study the material and then see if you will reach a diffrent conclussion.
advocates the abolition of the state, markets, money, capitalism and private property
This has some similarities as mentioned above, They dont realy mention a transition process state will be transformed and phased out in time and will only disappear when it fills no function.
from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
and in favor of common ownership of the means of production
Since nobody owns anything except things they create sympathetic value to and desire to keep(Say the doll of a daughter that died)
That dont mean you cant own things but if you go around owning 10 cars that you cannot even drive and you still have access to at any time anyway people will treat you like you have a value disorder.
also known as anarcho-communism and occasionally as free communism or libertarian communism
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
We went over this before. RBE is NOT based on the scientific method. You admitted yourself that it has not been tested, and therefore we should not believe it until it has been scientifically proven to work!
On the other hand the current field of economics as well as businesses use the scientific method all the time.
DannyJ United States. May 16 2012 12:41. Posts 3745
Whats this talk about communism? is that realy the only refreance you have to things you cannot understand.
Free World Charter is communism.
Same with RBE.
Same with Zeitgeist.
It's all communism.
communism is a monetary ideology. not a RBE automated society. It is your lack of understanding and refreances that forced your brain to make this connection. I assure you i have no fondness of sending people to siberia to die in gulags. But all i can tell you is to study the material and then see if you will reach a diffrent conclussion.
advocates the abolition of the state, markets, money, capitalism and private property
This has some similarities as mentioned above, They dont realy mention a transition process state will be transformed and phased out in time and will only disappear when it fills no function.
and in favor of common ownership of the means of production
Since nobody owns anything except things they create sympathetic value to and desire to keep(Say the doll of a daughter that died)
That dont mean you cant own things but if you go around owning 10 cars that you cannot even drive and you still have access to at any time anyway people will treat you like you have a value disorder.
also known as anarcho-communism and occasionally as free communism or libertarian communism
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
2.20-4.00
Critical thinking i wonder who this applies to.
Three things.
1). What happens if this goes through, and everyone wanted to do nothing in the world. Who would work? Thus, this would create conflict as why should someone be forced to work a 9-5 job, manual labour or another atrocious job for free; while the next person is allowed to play games all day and get the same as the previously mentioned people. There are already conflicts about that with Centrelink (Australia). Peoples tax's are literally given out to people who spend it on drugs, alcohol and worse. Where's the proof that this [conflict] may not arise?
2). Where's the proof that this is actually plausible? Going by your last analogy, you said it takes data to build a rocket and send it to the moon, no? So where's the data that shows it's plausible for this concept to work; and please, NO MORE YOUTUBE VIDEOS. I do not know if you ever went to University (by your lack of understanding, I doubt it), but you do not cite nor reference Wikipedia nor Youtube on your thesis nor assignments.
3). Who would be placed in charge of this? How would they be chosen/elected? How would the power order be established? Freedom? Will we have it? How so if people are allowed to do what they want, but then forced to work? What stop's this from becoming a dictatorship? What if the person(s) get corrupted? How do we stop that?
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
We went over this before. RBE is NOT based on the scientific method. You admitted yourself that it has not been tested, and therefore we should not believe it until it has been scientifically proven to work!
On the other hand the current field of economics as well as businesses use the scientific method all the time.
If you refer to everything as a whole no but what is being discused and how the infrastrucure is to operate and the technology discussed have. and are undergoing steady improvement so that most of what i have been given out as to good to advanced to be true is most likely already old and even more advanced today.
There is tons of stuff we havent tested yet but there is no reason not to try, Just like in the American revolution it was never realy tried like that before until it was.
But it is not some utopia where things is supposed to work just because where people are supposed to behave a certain way just because no its based on facts studies and technology on human behaviour aswel as resource management.
The Zeitgeist movement is working with NASA for example these arent some moronic for mother russia peeps but real enginners working to solve real world problem not just talk about it. http://zeitnewsblog.blogspot.se/2011/03/meeting-human-needs-how-resource-based.html check out these stuff personaly and read the sources and use google dont take my word for it, all of this can withstand scruttiny and embraces any flaw you can find so it can be solved.
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
We went over this before. RBE is NOT based on the scientific method. You admitted yourself that it has not been tested, and therefore we should not believe it until it has been scientifically proven to work!
On the other hand the current field of economics as well as businesses use the scientific method all the time.
If you refer to everything as a whole no but what is being discused and how the infrastrucure is to operate and the technology discussed have. and are undergoing steady improvement so that most of what i have been given out as to good to advanced to be true is most likely already old and even more advanced today.
Yeah, and as I've pointed out time and again what you keep saying "is more efficient" is not.
You can't just post a video of an automated farm and say "look! we can do this!!" Automating a farm is not free, and in modern countries it is already used so you offer nothing but new inefficiencies. You just want to throw technology at the problem the same way that communists before you did with the result of complete failure (see China's Great Leap Forward).
the FWC simply asks people to declare everything to be everyone's. how can a few people own oil, for example, which took millions of years to form? or how can someone own land? do you own the microbes and the lava and whatnot underneath? it's nonsense.
Hint: the reason "a few people" can "own oil," or "land," is actually the same reason you think everything should be declared to be everyone's.
no one knows every fact, you frequently have to refer to someone else's studies. are the people of the establishment whose existence depend on it more credible?
There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come.
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
We went over this before. RBE is NOT based on the scientific method. You admitted yourself that it has not been tested, and therefore we should not believe it until it has been scientifically proven to work!
On the other hand the current field of economics as well as businesses use the scientific method all the time.
If you refer to everything as a whole no but what is being discused and how the infrastrucure is to operate and the technology discussed have. and are undergoing steady improvement so that most of what i have been given out as to good to advanced to be true is most likely already old and even more advanced today.
Yeah, and as I've pointed out time and again what you keep saying "is more efficient" is not.
You can't just post a video of an automated farm and say "look! we can do this!!" Automating a farm is not free, and in modern countries it is already used so you offer nothing but new inefficiencies. You just want to throw technology at the problem the same way that communists before you did with the result of complete failure (see China's Great Leap Forward).
You are simple wrong and why dont you find a point to argue or dicuss rather then recycle this useless BS this is a thread about a RBE you bore me with your talk of chinas great leap or what words you feel like applying to things you dont understand.
You have to sources and if your to lazy to go throught it(You spend enough time in this tread to have time for it) Then just watch the short Freeworldcharter and bring up a point in there that you "belive,imagine,assume" is incorrect and discuss it. Sleep <--
www.youtube.com/user/DeliCiousTZM
GreenManalishi Canada. May 16 2012 13:14. Posts 570
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
We went over this before. RBE is NOT based on the scientific method. You admitted yourself that it has not been tested, and therefore we should not believe it until it has been scientifically proven to work!
On the other hand the current field of economics as well as businesses use the scientific method all the time.
If you refer to everything as a whole no but what is being discused and how the infrastrucure is to operate and the technology discussed have. and are undergoing steady improvement so that most of what i have been given out as to good to advanced to be true is most likely already old and even more advanced today.
There is tons of stuff we havent tested yet but there is no reason not to try, Just like in the American revolution it was never realy tried like that before until it was.
But it is not some utopia where things is supposed to work just because where people are supposed to behave a certain way just because no its based on facts studies and technology on human behaviour aswel as resource management.
The Zeitgeist movement is working with NASA for example these arent some moronic for mother russia peeps but real enginners working to solve real world problem not just talk about it. http://zeitnewsblog.blogspot.se/2011/03/meeting-human-needs-how-resource-based.html check out these stuff personaly and read the sources and use google dont take my word for it, all of this can withstand scruttiny and embraces any flaw you can find so it can be solved.
Having read that blog, I'll point a flaw in the author's thinking.
In 2007, the US produced approximately 11,000 kg of vegetables per acre. According to the Institute of Simplified Hydroponics, a group of impoverished children in India has developed a 20 square meter hydroponic garden that produces 730 kg/year(1). If these yields were scaled to a full acre, those yields could increase to ~147,000 kg/acre(2). Using orbitropism, increased CO2 concentrations in the air, and LED lighting, yields could theoretically increase to between ~800,000 to ~1,500,000 kg/acre(3). By adding fulvic acid and gibberellin, yields could increase further. Aeroponic variants have demonstrated an 80% increase in production on top of standard hydroponic yields. With these estimates, it is theoretically possible to produce between 1.8 to 3 million kg/acre(4) – between 180 to 300 times 2007 production, enough to feed a few thousand people every year – and with vertical farming, these yields could be increased linearly. If 4.2 billion acres(5) were required to produce 1.3 thousand kg of food for each living person in 2007, the amount of land used for agricultural means could be dramatically reduced to as little as 3.5 million acres without stacking crops(6), to 1.75 million acres using 2 stacks(6), to 700,000 acres using 5 stacks(6), to 350,000 acres using 10 stacks(6), etc. Using advanced aeroponic facilities and vertical farming, it is physically possible to feed an entire city of up to a million people using only 10 acres of land and 50 stacks(7) – if the population increases, simply add more vertical stacks.
The problem with the thought process here is the assumption that land area is the limiting factor in agricultural output. In fact, 58% of world cereal production is rain-fed, which is less then 65% as efficient as irrigation. (source). If agricultural land was the limiting factor, why are these areas not being irrigated to increase production? Simple. There are other limiting factors, factors such as labour, water, machinery, etc.
Throughout the blog you cited, the author takes a number related to an entire industry and then finds a specific example in which technology provides a value above this industry wide average, and extrapolates. As I demonstrated with the agriculture example, these two numbers aren't even relevant to the overall argument. The conclusion does not follow logically from the premises, and the premises are flawed to begin with.
the current system imposes poverty on 80% of the world's population.
as mentioned before, sustainability and efficiency are enemies of profit.
Do you actually believe stuff like this because you know the facts, or because you've been told that it's true?
Statements like the above really further destroy the very small amount of credibility you have.
the FWC simply asks people to declare everything to be everyone's. how can a few people own oil, for example, which took millions of years to form? or how can someone own land? do you own the microbes and the lava and whatnot underneath? it's nonsense.
Hint: the reason "a few people" can "own oil," or "land," is actually the same reason you think everything should be declared to be everyone's.
no one knows every fact, you frequently have to refer to someone else's studies. are the people of the establishment whose existence depend on it more credible?
Just saying, but someone has to repair those machines, and there are still a lot of jobs that require people, lots of people. Like many fruits and vegetables, machines can't pick them efficiently. Nor can machines find and refine their own power. As well as the criminal justice system, and road maintenance.
However, that's a small portion of the problem. The real reason why this would never work is that there is not enough materials in the world right now to give everyone a high standard of living, (electricity, running water, personal vehicle, internet, etc). One man's hour of work is not equivalant to anothers. Why do you think lawyers get paid more than farm labourers? It's because of supply and demand, there are a lot of people out there who know nothing, and few who know a lot.
One last thing, have any of you read "The Time Machine" by H.G. Wells? We'd end up as the Eloi, and there would most certainly be some type of Morlocks, who prey on us and eventually kill us all when we are too feeble and senseless to defend ourselves.
Its an ideology an ideology is not based on the scientific method but on opinion, And since we know opinion can be changed and manipulated at whim it is utterly inefficient.
If you design a rocket to fly to the moon you base it of data,experience and experiments not of someones opinion. we must adapt this method to society aswel.
We went over this before. RBE is NOT based on the scientific method. You admitted yourself that it has not been tested, and therefore we should not believe it until it has been scientifically proven to work!
On the other hand the current field of economics as well as businesses use the scientific method all the time.
The Zeitgeist movement is working with NASA for example these arent some moronic for mother russia peeps but real enginners working to solve real world problem not just talk about it.
Can you provide a reference to them working with NASA? Everything I'm coming up with on google is saying it isn't true. There is no reference on their official website that I can find.
