| risk.nuke Sweden. May 15 2012 01:36. Posts 2768 | Profile # |
On May 15 2012 01:32 deconduo wrote:
Heya
I'm picking [1,1] and I'm gonna take godfather if I'm unopposed. Why? The main reason is thatl it denies mafia (and SK) a pretty powerful role, and means that any DT checks become a lot more reliable. I also wanted to play an unusual class this time.
But what if I'm scum? Well the power of the godfather role arises from the fact that town don't know who has it. Any clean DT check is unreliable, and any lynch could give mafia a free kill. However if town knows exactly who the godfather is, nearly all of the role's power is negated. Its a win/win either way.
If you're scum nothing stops you from picking another role secretly and let one of your buddies pick gf later. But I like this plan. Mainly because I think you're town due to if you were scum you would had actually thought it through and realised that. |
| | Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 |
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| Toadesstern Germany. May 15 2012 01:36. Posts 6118 | Profile # |
Ok. I strongy disagree with people telling us the numbers they picked until something like 5 minutes prior to the deadline.
Reasoning: Mafia can talk about this in privacy and figure out what's the best course of action, town can not. I don't need to tell mafia what I picked making it easier (imo) to get a higher draft.
That being said I already send in my numbers and I won't tell people for now 
I still think #1 and #2 draft both HAVE TO pick CPR. It's the by far strongest role around and we can not let mafia have that role.
#2 picks CPR as well to get some fool-safety.
That way we probably will end up loosing a CPR night 1 or mafia shoots into a hider / vet if the #1 guy chose to take the rnd-chance that #2 is town as well (yeah I am assuming that #1 is town for the sake of discussion, if #1 ends up being mafia we don't even need this discussion, that's why). But I am frankly perfectly fine with that. |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:37. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
Sandroba's denial plan (TM)
1.GF
2.RB
3.Janitor
GF is there because it's powerful. RB and janitor are there because as soon as there are 2 rb claims or janitor is used you know the guy in that position is mafia. Also there is only 1 rb'er (besides jailer) so denying mafia rb makes claiming later much more powerful.
Every guy after that picks what ever focusing on roles that are great for both sides or are extremely good for town first (kp/protection/investigation). |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:39. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
| I've thought about assigning cpr too, but I'm not sure it's good since target for mafia to hit if the guy in the pos is town. So I think it's best for it to remain open. |
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| deconduo Ireland. May 15 2012 01:40. Posts 3605 | Profile Blog # |
On May 15 2012 01:36 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 01:32 deconduo wrote:
Heya
I'm picking [1,1] and I'm gonna take godfather if I'm unopposed. Why? The main reason is thatl it denies mafia (and SK) a pretty powerful role, and means that any DT checks become a lot more reliable. I also wanted to play an unusual class this time.
But what if I'm scum? Well the power of the godfather role arises from the fact that town don't know who has it. Any clean DT check is unreliable, and any lynch could give mafia a free kill. However if town knows exactly who the godfather is, nearly all of the role's power is negated. Its a win/win either way.
If you're scum nothing stops you from picking another role secretly and let one of your buddies pick gf later. But I like this plan. Mainly because I think you're town due to if you were scum you would had actually thought it through and realised that.
Oh yeah, I forgot about dropping roles down. I'll try to think of a way to compensate for that, maybe a check on me first night? Though with a possible framer as well it gets annoying. My hope was to have the framer as the only possible way for scum to fuck with DT checks. |
| | Ciúnas Bóthar Cailín Bainne. | |
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| Mattchew United States. May 15 2012 01:41. Posts 5120 | Profile Blog # |
someone who knows game balance.
would 15 blue townies vs 4 "role"mafia and 1 "role"sk be town favored? |
| | There is always tomorrow nshs.seal. |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:42. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
| @decon I'd rather you picked other numbers and let luck decide who takes GF at 1. I agree that it loses power if you know where it is, but it doesn't necessarily has to be you. It's safer that way, I'm sure you agree. |
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| Toadesstern Germany. May 15 2012 01:42. Posts 6118 | Profile # |
On May 15 2012 01:39 sandroba wrote:
I've thought about assigning cpr too, but I'm not sure it's good since target for mafia to hit if the guy in the pos is town. So I think it's best for it to remain open.
ok but you do agree that the CPR is the by far strongest power for mafia right?
I agree that it's not the strongest role for Town at all. You might pull a Toad on everyone and end up shooting 3 townies but we can not let mafia have CPR. That being said I don't even care if a townie CPR dies to mafia. |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:46. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
| I do. Mafia is not likely to get shot, so town cpr is very good (infinite vigi). It's very strong for both teams. Do you agree with my denial plan? I need everyone that sees a problem with it to step up and say it. |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:48. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
| And how exactly assigning cpr will prevent mafia from getting it or using it? |
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| Mattchew United States. May 15 2012 01:48. Posts 5120 | Profile Blog # |
On May 15 2012 01:46 sandroba wrote:
I do. Mafia is not likely to get shot, so town cpr is very good (infinite vigi). It's very strong for both teams. Do you agree with my denial plan? I need everyone that sees a problem with it to step up and say it.
I like your denial plan.
can you answer my question |
| | There is always tomorrow nshs.seal. |
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| deconduo Ireland. May 15 2012 01:50. Posts 3605 | Profile Blog # |
On May 15 2012 01:42 sandroba wrote:
@decon I'd rather you picked other numbers and let luck decide who takes GF at 1. I agree that it loses power if you know where it is, but it doesn't necessarily has to be you. It's safer that way, I'm sure you agree.
Given that mafia could drop the role down, I'm more inclined to stick to my position. I know I'm town, and by taking GF I know for certain it will be denied. It also means that if mafia do want to get the #1 spot, they are forced to openly oppose me by picking [1,1] |
| | Ciúnas Bóthar Cailín Bainne. | |
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| Toadesstern Germany. May 15 2012 01:51. Posts 6118 | Profile # |
On May 15 2012 01:46 sandroba wrote:
I do. Mafia is not likely to get shot, so town cpr is very good (infinite vigi). It's very strong for both teams. Do you agree with my denial plan? I need everyone that sees a problem with it to step up and say it.
I totally agree with it for the most part and like I already said pregame (I was allowed to talk about roles as long as I don't do plans ) the roles that you listed are very powerful for mafia.
I don't actually think the GF part of the GF isn't that strong for mafia in this set-up imo because frankly a tracker or bullet-bob seems much more powerful than any kind of cop in this set-up but the vengeful part of this role adds up.
The janitor is just really screwing with town and the RB is really hard for town to use (if at all) but still very nice for mafia to kill people or RB them.
The only thing I disagree about is that the CPR is not there. +1 kill every night can lose us the game at before d3 has started as pointed out by me, although the example I did was tailored for a 15 player game.
Therefore I will not agree to any plan that hasn't a CPR as #1 denial in it.
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| deconduo Ireland. May 15 2012 01:51. Posts 3605 | Profile Blog # |
| I'd also say that janitor is probably more dangerous that RB, assuming people get informed if they are RBed. |
| | Ciúnas Bóthar Cailín Bainne. | |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:51. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
@mattchew sorry i missed it. I would say yes, very town favored. 15 blues aren't guaranteed though.
I have a new adition to the denial plan
4.pardoner
He actually sends pardon through pms so we profit from knowing where it is. |
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| Mattchew United States. May 15 2012 01:54. Posts 5120 | Profile Blog # |
On May 15 2012 01:51 sandroba wrote:
@mattchew sorry i missed it. I would say yes, very town favored. 15 blues aren't guaranteed though.
I have a new adition to the denial plan
4.pardoner
He actually sends pardon through pms so we profit from knowing where it is.
Ok.. so what if we assigned everyone to enter a number and also assigned them a role. It would create a pre-game accountability for people and we would have better shot of getting 10+ roles to town...
theres something wrong with this plan that needs to be pointed out to me.. i just cant figure out what it is yet |
| | There is always tomorrow nshs.seal. |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:58. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
@decon I asked this already and they are informed. I fail to see how dropping godfather is good. Means that if gf is ever killed we get a bonus mafia for free.
@toad tell me how assigning cpr will help to keep it off mafia hands. GF is strong because it's imunity to checks + 1 free kill. But it's way stronger as mafia so that's why it's in the denial plan. Unlike cpr which is strong as both alignments. |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 15 2012 01:59. Posts 3116 | Profile # |
On May 15 2012 01:54 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 01:51 sandroba wrote:
@mattchew sorry i missed it. I would say yes, very town favored. 15 blues aren't guaranteed though.
I have a new adition to the denial plan
4.pardoner
He actually sends pardon through pms so we profit from knowing where it is.
Ok.. so what if we assigned everyone to enter a number and also assigned them a role. It would create a pre-game accountability for people and we would have better shot of getting 10+ roles to town... theres something wrong with this plan that needs to be pointed out to me.. i just cant figure out what it is yet
it's town favored if mafia doesn't know exactly where all important blues are. There is not enough protection roles around to make this work. And it's very good for SK too. So yeah it sucks for town. |
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| risk.nuke Sweden. May 15 2012 02:00. Posts 2768 | Profile # |
| I don't think I agree on pardoner. The mafias benefit of having a pardoner (an extra night) is significantly reduced by having a game stacked with blues. |
| | Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 |
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| talismania United States. May 15 2012 02:00. Posts 2364 | Profile Blog # |
On May 15 2012 01:37 sandroba wrote:
Sandroba's denial plan (TM)
1.GF
2.RB
3.Janitor
GF is there because it's powerful. RB and janitor are there because as soon as there are 2 rb claims or janitor is used you know the guy in that position is mafia. Also there is only 1 rb'er (besides jailer) so denying mafia rb makes claiming later much more powerful.
Every guy after that picks what ever focusing on roles that are great for both sides or are extremely good for town first (kp/protection/investigation).
I like this but I would swap CPR doc for GF at number 1. As toad is pointing out, CPR doc is way too powerful to have as scum (or SK). In fact I would make it so that #2 is required to RB the CPR doc as a failsafe until we decide it's really necessary to use it as a vig. Then both would have to be scum for them to use their powers otherwise (because CPR doc can confirm he was roleblocked since I'm assuming those roleblocked are told so).
Also, why are people scared of GF that people want to pick it #1? It doesn't even seem like a good role for scum to have given how many KP roles there are. Furthermore I don't think there's much point in relying on the information roles in a game with framers and roleblockers and all that. We'll probably do just as well with old-fashioned analysis rather than waiting for parity cop/tracker/bullet bill/etc claims. |
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