toad, please explain to me how all 3 could be town, and not be playing the most anti-town game?
If risk and marv are telling the truth, then sent is lying about being VT and voting risk for no reason other than this situation and to hold on to whatever role he has in secret
if marv and sent are telling the truth, then risk is lying about not taking the Janitor role and is voting sent for no other reason than this situation and for him to hold on to a scummy role (of no benefit to town) in secret
if risk and sent are telling the truth, than marv is lying about not taking the janitor role and he is allowing all this discussion about risk/sent/himself to go on and possibly end up in a lynch
It bothers me a lot that this is not a discussion spearheaded by themself, you all three have better insight than the rest of us so you should know someone is lying and do something about it wtf.
@toad if i had a list check of 3 people with 1 mafia on it I would 100% lynch into it.
Standard logic tells me to confirm the vanilla claim first, so a tentative vote on sentinel for now. Risk.nuke came across as town with his in your face attitude earlier, since day post he seems to have taken it overboard though. Now to not skim read a million pages, sigh.
I've been sleeping. And Yes this situation needs to be resolved so we can move on undistracted. The reason I think the liar and mafia is Sentinel rather then Marv is because Sentinel said "I'm going to do this and then didn't". When we picked roles marv and I both thought that Sentinel was going to pick Janitor so we could never have gotten away with it. I think sentinel is mafia and took a chance that I would pick Janitor so he could get another role and claim vt. I also feel that out of the three of us sentinel is the most suspicious as he is the one beeing the most unclear in his posting.
On May 17 2012 23:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I did not get janitor
I would say that if scum have a copycat there are prolly more scums in the lower end of the draft. If they were high up they'd rather go for guaranteed power roles like decon did or try to deny town of powers.
Either way I'd reckon the copycat is in the bottom ten of the draft.
5 hours later.
On May 18 2012 04:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Sorry bout that, was in school.
Anyways. I am Vanilla Town and not Janitor. So I'm claiming either risk or marvel is the janitor. And I don't trust risk. Because risk does not like the plan.
Sorry for lateness. I was leaning risk but I wanted to make sure it was him and not marv. Since I'm vanilla and it seems like the possibility more and more as time goes on, risk it is.
This post is an excuse and likely a lie. He wanted to be sure it was me and not marv but he haven't done any interrogation. Contrary, he have hardly posted at all and he haven't posted a single argument.
@toad Your argument is retarded. You are spilling shit all over and not considering the game we are playing. You have been moved to my ignore list. Surely lynching sentinel would be the lesser evil in case we lynch town out of one of the 3, since he is either mafia or vanilla, but I think we can afford to have blues check into those guys (role cop checks marv / bulletbill checks sentinel) since it's day1 and we already have a dead scum. It also gives a chance for all the other blues to act. If we lynch right now it has 1/3 chance of it being great and 2/3 chance of sucking. I can't pin point who is mafia based on behavior amongst those 3 and have read nothing so far that tilts the balance onto one or the other, so I think no lynching is by far the best choice.
Also if we want to deal with this today there is an easier way. Have marvel and risk role claim. We can analize the RC (if they opt to lie safely we will figure out absurd roles being picked at such high spot) and people can even CC if they get unlucky and claim something someone has.
It's pretty retarded to assume sentinel would just say that for free, since he had the option of saying he didn't go for janitor in the first place. It's equally retarded that any of the others picked janitor and lied about it for no reason. So really nothing makes sense. There is sure mafia amongst those 3, but there is no way to tell which retardness is most likely imo.
On May 18 2012 03:46 sandroba wrote: @Palmar What is your reasoning for picking pardoner at your position?
I'm glad you asked!
I am particularly proud of my pardoner draft idea, and even more glad that I got the role.
You see, I figured I wouldn't get any particularly strong role with such a bad drafting position. Drafting something like a vigilante role, which is something I would like, was almost out of the question.
So I decided to go with a role that confirms I'm town instead.
Why does it confirm I'm town? Well let me explain.
I drafted it and claimed it. The pardoner is a very hard role to use for both sides, very few people in this game possess the confidence and authority to successfully use this role as town, and as soon as mafia uses their claimed pardoner power, the pardoner gets lynched or shot the next night, because there is a valid case against the person being lynched, most likely.
In fact, assuming I'm mafia it's strictly optimal play for me to just claim vanilla town. I can easily claim that I tried to draft day vigilante as I had already mentioned wanting that role, and I knew it had gone to someone above me in the draft. I had a perfect alibi, and it's dumb as shit to claim pardoner as mafia, because there is NOTHING stopping a scum Palmar from just acting like a vanilla townie throughout the game, quietly wasting town time by pardoning someone at some point through the game.
Thus it's simply dumb to assume I'm scum at this point. I'm accountable for the pardon if and when it happens. Ideally I will not use the power at all in the game, but if I do I will announce it. Only reason I would be using it is if something on XLVIII scale of stupidity happens.
Unless of course you think I'm pulling some kinda crazy gambit, which I admit would not be completely out of character for me, however Occam's razor says I'm town.
ok now I need to read up on that sentinel situation, I'll explain why I don't like some of the stuff Qatol's posted later. I decided though that it doesn't necessarily make him scum, it might just be him thinking everyone else is stupid, which I can't really criticize since that's my opinion most of the time.
Me and marv roleclaiming is a bad idea. The chance that you will be able to deduce something out of that that's going to have an impact is just very slim for the risk. I could get behind this if Sentinel flips town but not as it is now.
On May 18 2012 19:31 risk.nuke wrote: Me and marv roleclaiming is a bad idea. The chance that you will be able to deduce something out of that that's going to have an impact is just very slim for the risk. I could get behind this if Sentinel flips town but not as it is now.
I don't care what role marv is, but I'd like to hear yours.
Okay I read the whole thing over to get the timing of the events and the less retarded explanation I can conjure is (drum roll) Marv is scum! If you look at how it happened and assume marv is mafia it makes *some* sense. Marv knew decon took cpr so he didn't have to confirm the role / waste a scum role on it. He also knew risk wasn't taking janitor and didn't expect people bellow him to try for it. So amongst the confusion of who gets the janitor role, it was the perfect opportunity to take it and get away with it. But then sentinel came in and busted him and it was too late. Marv did not expect sentinel to take it and got GG'ed.
On May 18 2012 08:02 sandroba wrote: I actually think no lynching might be the best choice.
Are you insane? That's the complete opposite of my favorite way of playing this game.
So yeah, I mentioned I might like killing him, but I don't know if he's being intentionally disruptive or just a condescending jerk.
First off, the harsh insistence that Mattchew's shot does not confirm Mattchew in any way. Remember, there is a SK in the game, as you yourself pointed out, which means that mafia is afraid for their numbers, unless they went for some kinda circle-jerk all-protective roles, they're afraid that a random shot might kill them. Town also is bound to control a lot of KP, another reason why they'd be afraid of thinning their numbers early in the game.
Don't act like everyone is stupid enough to consider Mattchew completely ridden of all suspicions, but even something like a 3 for 1 trade is fine for town, so he has given us scum. The chances of him being mafia are so incredibly remote that it doesn't even warrant discussion. All you're doing by pressing the idea he might be scum is stopping the flow of the game for us.
I'd also like to point out that making himself the center of attention day 1 is a very strange way of playing SK. Of course nothing is confirmed, but there really isn't a reason to assume anything else at the moment.
Not to mention, if you're town, doubting him in public like that is simply bad play, because if big players get behind someone and say he's confirmed town, and he actually happens to be town, we're forcing the scum to take care of the problem for us. They don't know we secretly keep our guard up. People who look very towny tend to get shot
In addition, I don't like how Qatol has repeatedly brought up the issue of PaqMan lynch today. Again, I'm not sure if this is a disconnect to the game because he hasn't played in a while, or if it's of the malicious nature. It's pretty clear that town NEEDS this issue resolved. One of the three is lying, we want to find out which one (bear with me if the conclusion has been reached, I'm still 5 pages behind or so).
Trying to deflect that issue is incredibly dumb, because it is now a given this issue will be plaguing us until we resolve it. There is zero reason to try and move away from that discussion, just form your own opinion on it and run with it.
In conclusion, remember these points later in the game, I may be wrong/right/whatever but for today we solve risk/sent/marv.