| Brolettuce United States. May 07 2012 11:07. Posts 45 | Profile # |
I know that theres opening w/ reactor or tech lab first, but im stuck on which will be the strongest against a 1rax expo
i feel like that opening with reactor is a bit weaker since u have to wait longer until you attk, but if you open w/ tech lab first, you have to be more aggressive quicker kind of
User was temp banned for this post.
User was temp banned from posting in the SC2 Strategy Forum for this post.Last edit: 2012-05-07 13:33:06 |
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| Arco United States. May 07 2012 11:16. Posts 1935 | Profile # |
| the reactor first one is better...people have gotten better at dealing with fast marauders. the sheer amount of units you get from the reactor first 2 rax is much stronger. |
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| cas2 May 07 2012 11:44. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| when u reactor they see it. when you don't they don't. that's the only relevant difference. it's best if they don't see the 2nd rax if you don't reactor for obvious reasons. |
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| Brolettuce United States. May 07 2012 11:45. Posts 45 | Profile # |
On May 07 2012 11:16 Tump wrote:
the reactor first one is better...people have gotten better at dealing with fast marauders. the sheer amount of units you get from the reactor first 2 rax is much stronger.
hmm
do ppl still do the marine + marauder or two push? and have it rallied to ther base w/ a reaper coming out of the tech lab to his min line?
On May 07 2012 11:44 cas2 wrote:
when u reactor they see it. when you don't they don't. that's the only relevant difference. it's best if they don't see the 2nd rax if you don't reactor for obvious reasons.
ya usually when i do my tech lab, i proxy my second rax, so it seems like that im opening w/ a reaper expoLast edit: 2012-05-07 11:45:56 |
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| cas2 May 07 2012 11:46. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| just so we're clear, you do wait until you've shoo'd off the probe before making a techlab, right? |
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| cas2 May 07 2012 11:48. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| proxying the 2nd rax is unnecessary and moves the build close to an allin, just place it in a weird place that can work defensively for you later on if need be. some maps prohibit this, unfortunately. |
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| Brolettuce United States. May 07 2012 11:52. Posts 45 | Profile # |
On May 07 2012 11:48 cas2 wrote:
proxying the 2nd rax is unnecessary and moves the build close to an allin, just place it in a weird place that can work defensively for you later on if need be. some maps prohibit this, unfortunately.
well its not really proxy proxy
its outside my base ( usually i do it inbase and lift it down or do it in my nat where he wouldnt scout it etc )
On May 07 2012 11:46 cas2 wrote:
just so we're clear, you do wait until you've shoo'd off the probe before making a techlab, right?
yesyesLast edit: 2012-05-07 11:53:08 |
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| PlacidPanda United States. May 07 2012 12:03. Posts 243 | Profile # |
| The scariest as a toss 1 gate expanding is the reactor first where they pull like 2 or 3 scvs, it sounds allin in theory, but you are almost guaranteed probe kills and the added map presence you get from it allows you to go up to double orbitals very fast. |
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| Brolettuce United States. May 07 2012 12:04. Posts 45 | Profile # |
hmmm
would that include throwin down some bunkers aswell?
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| cas2 May 07 2012 12:05. Posts 22 | Profile # |
the timings and compositional strength of both builds are approximate, i think techlab is barely faster, but if you've concealed it protoss has often blown all their chronoboost and so you often face a comical lack of units. the cost is that if protoss is allining you and you missed it, you have less production capability and at least 1 building that's spending some time flying and/or is unable to reinforce properly. in a similar vein, if you miscontrol significantly you may find that something like an immortal allin counter can straight kill you because you simply do not have the time to get reactors with this opening unless you have created an advantage with your units (the techlab option is absent other considerations a build order loss against everything because you are not using the techlab for anything of strategic value).
with the reactor opening protoss has to basically be negligent to not have the units needed to hold their front. on the flipside it's very safe and reliable and you basically guarantee protoss making those units, stalling their robo, and since he's at least making 1 sentry, it's impossible for him to have the stalker count to run you down unless he did a build you shouldn't have attacked into and even then you can usually execute a decent fighting withdrawal and go ahead and expand at not too terrible a timing. it's a mild build order loss against typical orders but can move into expansion medivacs, expansion 3rd cc etc very smoothly and end up only being slightly behind even in the worst case. doing this build might get you killed 20 minutes later but who really cares about that anyways. |
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| Brolettuce United States. May 07 2012 12:09. Posts 45 | Profile # |
well i feel like tech is kinda stronger since marauders are really really good against just gateway units
and im discussing between opening tech and second rax tech and opening reactor and second rax tech getting concussive on both etc
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| cas2 May 07 2012 12:15. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| it occurs to me that if terran is best played in an attacking manner vs protoss then why is it that all of the attacking builds are inherently build order losses that rely upon deception or opponent incompetence to create an advantage? |
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| cas2 May 07 2012 12:21. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| why would you put a 2nd techlab on? don't you like having units in the protoss natural when they have nothing? if you put a 2nd techlab that's 1 marine you don't have. the concept is that you make him think ur rax/cc and then he sees too much stuff come out and oops he blew all his chrono and he could lose his natural, not to stall your attack by 30 seconds to come with a more expensive unit, making it harder to get bunker(s) down as his warpgate finishes. |
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| cas2 May 07 2012 12:22. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| actually 30 + the incremental build time of a marauder vs a marine and subtract 1 marine. getting a 2nd techlab is straight up terrible. |
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| phiinix United States. May 07 2012 12:27. Posts 1124 | Profile Blog # |
| reactor first, then tech lab. 2nd rax at 15, delay your orbital by like 7 seconds, gets the marauder out like 30 seconds faster. |
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| AGIANTSMURF United States. May 07 2012 12:30. Posts 1207 | Profile Blog # |
isnt this entirely dependant on the opening of the protoss player? i find it silly that people are saying one is better than the other...
sometimes techlab first is better because it applies pressure quicker |
| | Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you..... |
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| Severedevil United States. May 07 2012 12:34. Posts 4499 | Profile Blog # |
| Do 2-rax-before-gas builds count? |
| | My strategy is to fork people. |
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| The ImmortaI One May 07 2012 12:46. Posts 47 | Profile # |
| reactor first is like a show. they see it. or else hide a second rax inside |
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| tuestresfat May 07 2012 12:51. Posts 2478 | Profile # |
On May 07 2012 12:03 PlacidPanda wrote:
The scariest as a toss 1 gate expanding is the reactor first where they pull like 2 or 3 scvs, it sounds allin in theory, but you are almost guaranteed probe kills and the added map presence you get from it allows you to go up to double orbitals very fast.
There are plenty of 1gate expos that hold this very convincingly without losing probes thanks to the rush distances on most maps. Really the only one on ladder where this would still be a huge threat is close air on metalopolis. |
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| PlacidPanda United States. May 07 2012 13:05. Posts 243 | Profile # |
| But the thing is if you got reactor first the toss has no way of distinguishing a 2 rax from a 1-1-1 so is forced to build a robo which doesn't allow the toss to hold it convincingly at all, also 2/3 spawns on antiga this can work. |
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