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| ci_esteban United States. May 09 2012 06:27. Posts 216 | Profile # |
Why does it seem like such an uphill battle these days to get players to play as a team? From my experiences playing on both NA and EU DoTA servers it seems like NA players in particular, aside from being less skilled, don't seem to fully buy into how each player needs to fulfill an individual role for the team to prosper. Feels like there are so many amateur NA DoTA players that have these huge egos about how good they are at the game, yet lack a deeper appreciation and understanding of the game. Part of what makes DoTA so enjoyable is that 5v5 aspect where its just like playing a pick-up game on the basketball courts. Make some nice shots, sick passes, trash-talking your opponents when you nail a 3 right in their face and being able to accomplish it with 5 guys as a unit is what team competition is all about if you ask me. Watching teams like Na'Vi and how all 5 players are always on the same page moving as one is seriously so beautiful to watch and whenever I get this kind of team chemistry with pubs I always know that this is the way DoTA is meant to be played.
The only way to breed a more team-oriented culture in the community is to take it upon ourselves to do things like always carry TPs, pick heroes that compliment teammates and potential lane combinations, and being more aware of your minimap. Being a more team-oriented player doesn't mean you have to get along with your teammates, it just means that it's in everyone's best to help each other out.
Something I might think or say (nerdrageeeee) to illustrate said frustration:
"TP TO THE FUCKING TOWER WHEN I'M GETTING FUCKING TOWER DIVED I MEAN IT'S SERIOUSLY LIKE 3 FREE KILLS OMG WHY ARE YOU MID QOP FARMING THAT LANE FOR 15 MINUTES....PLEASE GANKKKK!!! WHYYYYY MEEEEEEEEEEEE."
If any NA players are down for some good ol' fashioned 5 man TEAM Dota you can message me on Steam (stephenbrawn522). I also might try streaming for the first time but I have a shitty CPU so if you're down to watch or just give some tips or whatever that'd be chill. I have 2 monitors so I can read chat while playing simultaneously. (twitch.tv/ci_esteban) or is it justin.tv? lol
Hopefully this post didn't come off as whiny, I just felt like I've noticed this trend being a little more prevalent among NA players than EU players. Maybe us Americans are just stubborn and don't like listening to others. >.< |
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| Unleashing Denmark. May 09 2012 06:30. Posts 2400 | Profile # | |
| | "Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - KuroKy | |
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| Logo United States. May 09 2012 06:31. Posts 2642 | Profile Blog # |
| Ha! Defense of the Ancients. |
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| archangel967 Canada. May 09 2012 06:42. Posts 108 | Profile # |
I think the other side of this issue is that it can be difficult like players, such as myself, that haven't played very much DotA/HoN/LoL before.
I find it very difficult to have fun when I join a game to try to learn and I am getting yelled at in game. I know there are helpful players out there but they are few and far between.
I think games are going to suffer more and more from this type of problem in the future due to our selfish culture. It's going to be very difficult to have fun in any team game without having a pre-defined team.
My 2c. |
| | When you're ahead, get further ahead. |
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| Klowney Sweden. May 09 2012 07:06. Posts 57 | Profile # |
| Don´t play public games if you want good teamplay, I wouldn´t tp to you either if you were dying because I know it would be wasted, as noone else would help. For most people it´s all about getting kills and farm. You should also relax as you were also new once and made the same mistakes. Doesn´t make it better by raging. |
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| Kuzmorgo Hungary. May 09 2012 07:06. Posts 725 | Profile # |
So, to put it out there, I almost always have a tp in my inventory past the early laning phase, because obviously as a carry you want to tp to farm (it always pisses me off when the carry on my team is sitting on his ass, when he could go to a lane that has 20 enemy creeps and 0 enemy heroes), and otherwise you wanna tp to gank/help out.
That being said, I may have misunderstood you, but I have seen a lot of "good ol' fashioned 5 man dota" team, where people think that good teamplay means constantly roaming as 5, picking off heroes here and there, no matter their lineup. The problem with this is that since you are killing heroes, you think that what you do is effective, but it actually costs a lot to let 2 lanes be unattended. I just wanted to say this because I got flamed a lot in games where I had a carry or semi-carry and the whole enemy team was pushing a tower for minutes (emphasis on the time they wasted), I was freefarming another lane, and my team was raging that I wasn't helping out. My point is, if you don't have a pushing lineup, its rarely worth it to bunch up early game.
Again, I just wanted to say this, because you didn't specify what you were actually talking about (apart from the TP support situation, which I 100% agree with you, but I doubt it was the sole reason for making this thread). |
| | "No, whine not! Play, or play not! There is no whine." | |
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| Imbajoe United States. May 09 2012 07:38. Posts 449 | Profile # |
The problem facing a lot of players that I encounter on NA, even the ones with lots of experience, is that they don't know how to properly communicate with other people. They rage and flame, and in doing so think they being part of the solution, when in reality they aren't even helping and possibly making things worse. For example :
"TP TO THE FUCKING TOWER WHEN I'M GETTING FUCKING TOWER DIVED I MEAN IT'S SERIOUSLY LIKE 3 FREE KILLS OMG WHY ARE YOU MID QOP FARMING THAT LANE FOR 15 MINUTES....PLEASE GANKKKK!!! WHYYYYY MEEEEEEEEEEEE."
is hostile, rude to your teammates, and don't foster a cohesive team environment. No one is going to play better after hearing that, and they certainly won't want to. However, if you speak respectfully and with constructive criticism, your teammates will be more inclined to respond favorably.
edit: maybe this isn't relevant to the topic, just wanted to vent my frustration at what I see as the main problem in pub gamesLast edit: 2012-05-09 07:39:38 |
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| TheWarbler United States. May 09 2012 07:41. Posts 1241 | Profile Blog # |
| This is pubbing dota. You can't expect much more. Unless you are in the very high end of MM. |
| | if you can believe you can concieve |
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| Kznn Brazil. May 09 2012 08:25. Posts 5294 | Profile # |
On May 09 2012 07:41 TheWarbler wrote:
This is pubbing dota. You can't expect much more. Unless you are in the very high end of MM.
even in the highest mmr, its still the same thing.
sad, but true. |
| | Bisu | Korok | TC | SingSing | Flash | |
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| Itsmedudeman United States. May 09 2012 08:35. Posts 8499 | Profile Blog # |
Get better and play with people who actually do play as a team. The higher you go the better pubs get and there's always gonna be people who realize what they need to do and you won't have a team made up of doombringer, weaver, am, stormspirit, syllabear. It applies to me too. When I know I'm playing with people just as good as me or better I'll do everything that I'm expected to do rather than play selfishly which, in a lower level game, would make winning easier.
That's not to say disagreements don't happen, but the team is able to recover better and adapt easier to the situation. Had a stormspirit jungle last game after a dispute with beastmaster about who was to go mid and we ended up winning in the end.Last edit: 2012-05-09 08:37:29 |
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| YpnotiS France. May 09 2012 08:48. Posts 121 | Profile # |
"Idra/NA's rages" ? Well, I think there are a lot of haters in EU too. I can't tell if it's more or less since i don't really play on NA.
Don't expect too much in DotA pubs. Just enjoy the way you're playing, improve your own skills/mechanics, and feel proud of yourself if you're doing well, analyse your mistakes if you're doing bad, don't rage on your teammates!
Personally, I don't care about losing if I'm playing well and vice versa, even if we are winning, I don't like it if I am doing bad stuffs. There are so many things to consider in 'non-pros' levels. If you think you just had to do the final push because enemies are all dead, but your team doesn't even push, you're right. Just put in your mind the way you were thinking is the correct one and you had the win in your mindset. Well just to say, enjoy yourself playing, that's all ^^
Also, talk to your teamates. Don't expect them to do good stuff if you don't say/ask for anything (well, there always are some retards who doesn't read/listen to people at all). Pros have good skills but also talk a lot together.
Well, sometimes you can find good players ingame, get friend with them, and play with them again. I'm pretty sure you can find some good people you can play with.
GL  Last edit: 2012-05-09 08:51:44 |
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| kethers United States. May 09 2012 09:01. Posts 453 | Profile Blog # |
Welcome to DotA pubbing. I've been playing DotA since even before DotA Allstars existed back when DotA was run in WC3:RoC. The majority of pubbing mentality will never change. People only care about their own hero and own scores and own farm.
I actually think the mentality has slightly improved in Dota2. |
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| theang123 Malaysia. May 09 2012 09:37. Posts 85 | Profile Blog # |
its a pub game ppl do wat they want...
u want team play go find 5 friends and teamqueue...
i personally hate it when ppl tell me wat to pick...
its ap and i have the rights to play wateva hero i like |
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| myopia United States. May 09 2012 09:55. Posts 2260 | Profile Blog # |
Dota's never worth getting mad over, just chill. If your team is making a blatant attempt at throwing the game, you can always mute/report.
On May 09 2012 06:31 Logo wrote:
Ha! Defense of the Ancients.
zing! |
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| OblivionMage Canada. May 09 2012 10:34. Posts 313 | Profile # |
NA and EU DoTA servers it seems like NA players in particular, aside from being less skilled
honestly I've had the opposite experience, NA players seem much better
anyway, dota will be dota. deal with it |
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| Barrin United States. May 09 2012 10:40. Posts 4196 | Profile Blog # |
On May 09 2012 06:31 Logo wrote:
Ha! Defense of the Ancients.
rofl!
Aeon of Strife
Multiplayer Online Battle Arena
we have him cornered!
Seriously though, yes. You must always rely on your teammates in these games. You can be the best player in the world by far, but if your team sucks it cal all go to poop pretty fast if your enemies are flawed but solid. Especially because of "feeding" potential. |
| | "It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." -Voltaire | |
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| Backpack United States. May 09 2012 10:40. Posts 1760 | Profile Blog # |
On May 09 2012 07:38 Imbajoe wrote:The problem facing a lot of players that I encounter on NA, even the ones with lots of experience, is that they don't know how to properly communicate with other people. They rage and flame, and in doing so think they being part of the solution, when in reality they aren't even helping and possibly making things worse. For example :
Show nested quote +"TP TO THE FUCKING TOWER WHEN I'M GETTING FUCKING TOWER DIVED I MEAN IT'S SERIOUSLY LIKE 3 FREE KILLS OMG WHY ARE YOU MID QOP FARMING THAT LANE FOR 15 MINUTES....PLEASE GANKKKK!!! WHYYYYY MEEEEEEEEEEEE."
is hostile, rude to your teammates, and don't foster a cohesive team environment. No one is going to play better after hearing that, and they certainly won't want to. However, if you speak respectfully and with constructive criticism, your teammates will be more inclined to respond favorably. edit: maybe this isn't relevant to the topic, just wanted to vent my frustration at what I see as the main problem in pub games
I agree with this 100%. I find that if I mute people when they first start complaining (aka when the game starts) then by the time they need me to help them, I won't be mad about their raging.
No it doesn't solve the problem of people being ragebabies but it does make the game more pleasant for me. Win or lose, i don't enjoy a game with someone bitching every 5 seconds. |
| | "You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic |
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| SirMilford Australia. May 09 2012 12:59. Posts 859 | Profile Blog # |
On a semi-related but not completely similar note. Whenever one of my mates starts getting mad i mute them straight away. Because i am generally better than them they like to play with me, and as such hate being muted! it is like i am training them to be better people.
Also, NA dota players ARE angry, dont let anyone kid you that they are not. i find better teams in CN/HK/SEA server pubs. The only problem i have from SEA players is the super wonky item builds, because lots of players just play in a lan they have some wierd metagame going on. Like BS jungle or DK rushing lothars.
EDIT: obviously not everyone is angry, but i find most are Last edit: 2012-05-09 12:59:28 |
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| Ym1r United States. May 09 2012 13:32. Posts 807 | Profile # |
| Teams, TEAMS, T.E.A.M.S, Together Everybody Achieves More Success. |
| | im ji geum - fany - ellin - eunji - dat1girlfromjayparksmvjoah - forever asone |
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| guN-viCe United States. May 09 2012 13:34. Posts 543 | Profile # |
| Everybody wants to be a hero. |
| | Never give up, never surrender!!! ~~ Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Sagan |
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