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| GT350 United States. May 10 2012 00:41. Posts 270 | Profile # |
In the course of my plan to get healtier, I encountered a few things that I would like to ask and discuss with other members of this esteemed online community. I have been reading a lot from these forums and I see a vast range of expertise and knowledge from the different members here. What I want to discuss is about diet, particularly vegetarian diet.
Usually plans on reducing weight and getting healtier involves 2 things, diet and exercise. The diet part is a bit tricky though. I tend to think that the best way to go is a vegetarian diet or some variation of it. For people like me, a full blooded omnivorous, more on the carnivorous side, it seems reasonable to start with a semi vegitarian diet with still a diet of meat and reduce it afterwards. But which is the best and most effective way to do this, with the end goal of being a full vegan. Here are the few vegetarian types:
1. Flexitarian/Semi-vegetarian
Mostly vegetarian diet, but occasionally eat meat, beef, pork, poultry, etc.
2. Pescatarian
No meat and animal flesh with the exception of fish.
3. Lacto-ovo- vegetarian
No beef, pork, poultry, fish, shellfish or animal flesh of any kind, but eat eat eggs and dairy products. Lacto-vegetarian is used to describe a vegetarian who does not eat eggs, but does eat dairy products. Ovo-vegetarian refers to people who do not eat meat or dairy products but do eat eggs.
4. Vegan
Vegans do not eat meat of any kind and also do not eat eggs, dairy products, or processed foods containing these or other animal-derived ingredients such as gelatin. Many vegans also refrain from eating foods that are made using animal products that may not contain animal products in the finished process, such as sugar and some wines. There is some debate as to whether certain foods, such as honey, fit into a vegan diet.
5. Raw vegan/Raw food diet
A raw vegan diet consists of unprocessed vegan foods that have not been heated above 115 degrees Fahrenheit (46 degrees Celsius). “Raw foodists” believe that foods cooked above this temperature have lost a significant amount of their nutritional value and are harmful to the body.
6. Macrobiotic
The macrobiotic diet, revered by some for its healthy and healing qualities, includes unprocessed vegan foods, such as whole grains, fruits and vegetables, and allows the occasional consumption of fish. Sugar and refined oils are avoided. Perhaps the most unique qualifier of the macrobiotic diet is its emphasis on the consumption of Asian vegetables, such as daikon, and sea vegetables, such as seaweed.
What is the best way to go? Is there a step from one to the next, to being a full vegan? If one goes full vegan, where does he get protein? Also these is a bit of a surprise to me, but is the raw and macrobiotic vegetarian diet safe and sanitary? Is goin full vegan a sustainable thing without any long term effects, like something someone can do for the rest of his adult life? |
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| Josh-FiveO Denmark. May 10 2012 00:46. Posts 152 | Profile Blog # |
| If I went vegetarian I would die (Not litteraly) :S My bloodpressure is low already, and from what I know, you need lots of food/energy when your bloodpressure is low. But for some people I guess it is fine, but isn't it also important to get meat? Like for your brain or something. |
| | A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. |
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| Vegalive United States. May 10 2012 00:51. Posts 94 | Profile # |
Before you decide to go into a vegetarian diet I recommend you check out Paleo/Primal diets and Crossfit. So many people have success with this and love it.
From Crossfit.com "Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat. Practice and train major lifts: Deadlift, clean, squat, presses, C&J, and snatch. Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics: pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups, presses to handstand, pirouettes, flips, splits, and holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. Regularly learn and play new sports."
Helpful websites to you to do some good reading also:
http://robbwolf.com/what-is-the-paleo-diet/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-to-the-primal-eating-plan/#axzz1uO8IWglZ
Feel free to pm |
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| HaRuHi May 10 2012 00:51. Posts 545 | Profile Blog # |
Every person is different, what the best thing for you is, only you can find out.
As for do humans need flesh to stay healthy?
Well shaolin monks are buddhist, so they don't eat flesh or fish-seem pretty healthy to me these guys.
Meat does contain more protein that most fruits, thats true, but most human bodies can't absord the high amount of proteins in flesh anyways, as you need certain other stuffs in food to absord the protein. The best mixes is found in beans i believe, lots of protein and the additional stuff you need for your body to work with the protein. |
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| Agathon France. May 10 2012 00:54. Posts 1378 | Profile # |
I heard from most nutritionists that vegetarian diet is...bad. Too many deficiency, and not only proteins.
I always heard that the healthier diet consists in eating a bit of everything, even a cakes, bread and butter, but always in reasonable quantity and not too fast (the slower you eat, the better is you digestion), practice some physical activities (sex in a good one, but sports are good too ^^), no alcool, no tobacco, no drugs ofc.
But i'm not nutritionist myself, it's just what i read/heard
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| | "C'est au pied du mur, qu'on voit le mieux...le mur". |
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| Surili United Kingdom. May 10 2012 00:55. Posts 1094 | Profile Blog # |
Umm, i think it all begins with your reasons for being a vegetarian.
I am a vegetarian for a few reasons, but most importantly because it is SO much better for the environment to be one. For every meal of meat it takes AT LEAST 10 times as much land than an equivalent meal that isn't made of meat. Everyone learnt this in high school biology but didn't consider the consquences.
On top of that 17% of green house gas emissions are produced by livestock especially cows, so if you really care about improving your lifestyle for the sake of the environment becoming a vegetarian is by far the best thing you can do.
Otherwise i also believe that using animals for your own pleasure denies that an animal has interests, or at least that apparently your interests are more important than the animal, which i believe is false; to say that animals are so much less important that this meal should be slightly nicer it is okay that the animal should actually not live is something that doesn't sound fair to me.
It took me years to grow the balls and actually become a vegetarian, i love meat so much, but i refused to be a hypocrite any longer.
But i think the most important stage is not to be a dick about it! If someone makes a nice meal for me, and forgot/didn't know that i am a vegetarian i will eat it, or if they make a mistake and use goose fat for cooking the potatoes or whatever, i don't feel it is worth it, as i pledge myself to reduce DEMAND for animals, not to sanctify my body.
For the same reason i also will happily finish meat products that will go to waste otherwise, because it does not create demand for it. My friends were tempted to start making too much food on purpose so that i would eat it but in the end they don't because they knew it would hurt me to do so. And they aren't assholes 
Just my perspective.
I think that at some point i will have to become a vegan too, because eating eggs and milk are both in contrary to what i said before, but i haven't managed to cross that bridge yet.
As for raw food diets... i just don't even understand the point. Is there evidence that it IS much better for us? Are we actually meant to live to a hundred? Let me just leave this here: It is relevant i promise.
+ Show Spoiler +
PS
On May 10 2012 00:54 Agathon wrote:
I heard from most nutritionists that vegetarian diet is...bad. Too many deficiency, and not only proteins.
I always heard that the healthier diet consists in eating a bit of everything, even a cakes, bread and butter, but always in reasonable quantity and not too fast (the slower you eat, the better is you digestion), practice some physical activities (sex in a good one, but sports are good too ^^), no alcool, no tobacco, no drugs ofc.
But i'm not nutritionist myself, it's just what i read/heard
I am no nutritionist, but in my diet i have AT LEAST as much protein as the average meat eater, because cheese and beans are so protein heavy and i eat a lot of both.
It is true that it is harder to get ahold of certain vitamins, but in this day and age it isn't exactly difficult.
Last edit: 2012-05-10 00:57:57 |
| | "It is not a mistake to have strong views, it is a mistake to have nothing else." - Andrew Weston * * * Masters Protoss on EU. | |
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| blug Australia. May 10 2012 00:59. Posts 613 | Profile # |
I know lots of vegans who have done it for their whole lives and they aren't effected by it all. You could argue that not having meat products within your diet is a health risk, but if you are the type of person who drinks energy drinks or eats at mcdonalds every second day, a vegan diet is going to have much better impact on your health than sticking to an unhealthy life style.
It is highly recommended that you eat some form of meat, however, you can sustain a healthy balance of protein by eating nuts/legumes, oats, broccoli, and tofu and that is just an example of few foods in which you can have. The simple fact of the matter is, if you don't have enough protein you are going to feel weak, irritable, and also lethargic. However, if it is prolonged it can start having detrimental effects on your immune system and your body overall won't perform tasks as well. It's not to bad if you're slightly under the protein daily intake, but it is in your best interest to include protein in heavy amounts and not to skimp out of it.
Other than the whole protein thing, there isn't really much else that is wrong with it, the general philosophy with health is exercise and eating a variety of food fresh right out of the ground with the occasional bit of meat (Which is the only real downside). I would suggest you perhaps include the occasional fish, but it is understandable if you don't if its a morality thing.Last edit: 2012-05-10 01:02:15 |
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| GT350 United States. May 10 2012 01:01. Posts 270 | Profile # |
| Also, I am yet to go to a nutritionist next week, but my goal is to go down to 170-175lbs in 5-6 months. I am currently 18, 210-220lbs as of last month, 6'2. I have enroled in a 6 month program in the gym with specific routines, basically cardio, running, and some weights. I'll see after 3 months if the goal is achievable and play it by ear there. I am decided to eventually go vegan, but I am torn on how to do it. If I go pesca or flexi, is there a ratio of meat to vegetable? |
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| Aurocaido Canada. May 10 2012 01:02. Posts 287 | Profile # |
If I were to place myself on that list I would probably be a semi-vegetarian. I eat almost no meat, however, I do enjoy a steak about once a month or so.
It is really not as hard as you would think to cut meat out of your diet, it just takes a little work for the first few weeks. Also the health benefits I found were almost immediate. I found that my daily energy levels were much higher after making the switch to an almost solely vegetarian diet. I just felt generally better.
Going vegetarian forces you to eliminate almost all fast food from your diet, which can only be a good thing. I also eliminated all soft drinks and fruity beverages as well.
It has been almost two years now since I made the switch and I have never been in better shape. Just make sure you have a balanced diet. A poorly planned vegetarian diet is just as bad a poorly planned diet that includes meat.
If your plan is to go full vegan I recommend starting at semi-vegetarian and slowing working your way up. Going cold turkey immediately is quite difficult from my experience. Good luck, you won't regret improving your eating habits. Last edit: 2012-05-10 01:09:01 |
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| blug Australia. May 10 2012 01:04. Posts 613 | Profile # |
And mate honestly, You need an incredible amount of self control to go vegan. I would really recommend to include meat if it's just a weight loss thing. Just eat fish once a day and eat shit loads of vegetables and 4 servings of fruit a day.
A nutritionist once said to me if you are trying to lose weight, you can eat as many vegetables as you want pretty much. Also Celery/Carrots are amazing for weight loss, celery is negative calories (You use more energy digesting celery than energy absorbed) and carrots are basically the same. Carrots are also filled with fibre which makes you feel full =DLast edit: 2012-05-10 01:07:17 |
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| Agathon France. May 10 2012 01:10. Posts 1378 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 00:55 Surili wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 00:54 Agathon wrote:
I heard from most nutritionists that vegetarian diet is...bad. Too many deficiency, and not only proteins.
I always heard that the healthier diet consists in eating a bit of everything, even a cakes, bread and butter, but always in reasonable quantity and not too fast (the slower you eat, the better is you digestion), practice some physical activities (sex in a good one, but sports are good too ^^), no alcool, no tobacco, no drugs ofc.
But i'm not nutritionist myself, it's just what i read/heard
I am no nutritionist, but in my diet i have AT LEAST as much protein as the average meat eater, because cheese and beans are so protein heavy and i eat a lot of both. It is true that it is harder to get ahold of certain vitamins, but in this day and age it isn't exactly difficult.
Cheese is very fat too. Lipids are important ofc, but you must take care about you're cholesterol in the same time. On a "phylosophic" point of view, have pleasure from the milk of cows...
You have to find some iron sources too, the red meat is by far the best source. Spinach is the best choice i guess.
Last edit: 2012-05-10 01:11:56 |
| | "C'est au pied du mur, qu'on voit le mieux...le mur". |
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| Garbels Austria. May 10 2012 01:14. Posts 90 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 01:04 blug wrote:
A nutritionist once said to me if you are trying to lose weight, you can eat as many vegetables as you want pretty much. Also Celery/Carrots are amazing for weight loss, celery is negative calories (You use more energy digesting celery than energy absorbed) and carrots are basically the same. Carrots are also filled with fibre which makes you feel full =D
I think negative calories are a myth. At least in common foods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_calorie_foodLast edit: 2012-05-10 01:17:15 |
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| MooseyFate United States. May 10 2012 01:16. Posts 235 | Profile # |
I think this should probably go in the Health and Fitness section, so it may get moved (edit: it did), but I'll throw in what little I know about the diets you've mentioned.
1) Flex/Semi: This one is the easiest to follow because it requires the least change. You aren't giving up anything, just changing the portions. You still get to satisfy your "I need steak!" cravings, but you will be filling up on vegetables so you won't be taking in as many calories (500 calories of vegetables takes up more room in your stomach than 500 calories of meat, so you will feel fuller sooner). If you have moderate self control, this should be easy. This will also require the least amount of supplements because you can get most of what your body needs out of a balanced omnivorous diet.
2)Pescatarian: Almost the same as above, but no amount of fish will scratch that red-meat itch, so it will be a bit tougher. You will have more Omega-3 in your diet which is great for your brain, however you also run the risk of having a higher mercury intake. Fish is also slightly more difficult to cook (unless you fry it, which isn't really healthy). You'll need to start taking vitamins to fill in any nutritional gaps you have from not eating much meat.
3) Lacto-ovo vegetarian (Milk and eggs, bitch): This is where the diets start to get more expensive because you need protein, but eggs will help bail you out a little (they are pretty cheap). Just be careful you don't go overboard on cheese and eggs because they both contain a lot of cholesterol and fat (dairy). Bump up the vitamins/supplements required to not be deficient in anything important. You''ll still get meat cravings as well. Every vegetarian I know talks about avoiding the smell of BBQ because of temptation.
4) Vegan: Willpower, vitamins, supplements, and a desire to try new cuisines from other countries because the West has limited options here. Sure you can get a bunch of processed fake burger vegi-pattys, but they aren't really that good for you. You will also start to see a huge spike in cost.
5/6) Raw/Macro food: These two are similar enough to group together. You will need a lot of willpower to make this switch. However, if you are trying to lose a lot of weight FAST, this is the best(and healthiest) way. That being said, these diets are VERY expensive. There are a couple of movies on Netflix talking about these diets (Fat, Sick, and Nearly dead comes to mind) that include using a juicer ($). The biggest problem with this diet is finding cheap produce that isn't covered in pesticides or genetically altered. This will require the most research and financial planning to pull off of all the diets and it's more of a lifestyle change than the others. Again, you will see the most dramatic results with this diet, but you have to have impressive willpower to make it through. I've known people who couldn't make it a week with this diet, but I also have friends that stuck with it for a month before dropping back to a more normal diet. The ones that stuck with it say they've never felt better and were amazed at the amount of energy they had. Last edit: 2012-05-10 01:18:14 |
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| PandaTank South Africa. May 10 2012 01:26. Posts 229 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2012 00:54 Agathon wrote:
I heard from most nutritionists that vegetarian diet is...bad. Too many deficiency, and not only proteins.
I always heard that the healthier diet consists in eating a bit of everything, even a cakes, bread and butter, but always in reasonable quantity and not too fast (the slower you eat, the better is you digestion), practice some physical activities (sex in a good one, but sports are good too ^^), no alcool, no tobacco, no drugs ofc.
But i'm not nutritionist myself, it's just what i read/heard
It's a common misconception that you will not get enough protein with a vegaterian diet. Like the guy who commented before me, I get as much, if not more protein with my vegetarian diet. I eat these strips made out of soy which have up to 50g protein per 100g. That's far superior to chicken, red meat, and most fish. Beans, nuts, etc are also a great source. |
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| MooseyFate United States. May 10 2012 01:34. Posts 235 | Profile # |
Concerning the protein issue: There are plenty of plant-based proteins that don't have the negatives of dairy and nuts (fat) like Spirulina. Combined with beans and vegetables that are naturally high in protein, you can get everything you need without touching an animal product. Again, you'll need to see what is available in your area and how expensive before making a decision.
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| Elitios France. May 10 2012 01:41. Posts 121 | Profile # |
| I've heard somewhere that in order to be healthy you have to like what you eat, and you have to eat well (taking the time to, no eating while walking, etc). I don't know if that's helpful. |
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| sJarl Iceland. May 10 2012 01:45. Posts 1583 | Profile # |
Vegetarian diet is doable but requires a lot of knowledge of nutrients, amino acid profiling and other things.
It also requires a whole lot of micromanagement.
I still don't know why people would be vegetarians with the exception of just don't liking the taste/texture of meat but that is just my opinion. |
| | "Witness!" - Karsa Orlong |
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| solidbebe Netherlands. May 10 2012 01:53. Posts 3278 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 01:41 Elitios wrote:
I've heard somewhere that in order to be healthy you have to like what you eat, and you have to eat well (taking the time to, no eating while walking, etc). I don't know if that's helpful.
The problem with health advice is, is that so much of it is just crap. Even things you hear alot and are commonly thought of as true can be completely false. The issue is alot of uninformed people that think they're oh so knowledgeable and just say what they believe without any kind of proof. |
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| sJarl Iceland. May 10 2012 02:19. Posts 1583 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 01:53 solidbebe wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 01:41 Elitios wrote:
I've heard somewhere that in order to be healthy you have to like what you eat, and you have to eat well (taking the time to, no eating while walking, etc). I don't know if that's helpful.
The problem with health advice is, is that so much of it is just crap. Even things you hear alot and are commonly thought of as true can be completely false. The issue is alot of uninformed people that think they're oh so knowledgeable and just say what they believe without any kind of proof.
That is why we try on this forum to back up with scientific articles whatever we try to claim. It is often easier said than done though... |
| | "Witness!" - Karsa Orlong |
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| PandaTank South Africa. May 10 2012 04:38. Posts 229 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2012 01:45 sJarl wrote:
Vegetarian diet is doable but requires a lot of knowledge of nutrients, amino acid profiling and other things.
It also requires a whole lot of micromanagement.
I still don't know why people would be vegetarians with the exception of just don't liking the taste/texture of meat but that is just my opinion.
*Facepalm*, some like to think of and take into consideration others, instead of only themselves you know. Not everyone believes they are the centre of the universe, as strange as that may sound. |
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