On June 02 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote: I voted for scum. Somehow, during D2 I got distracted from my tried-and-true tactic of tunnelling scum and thought "oh these people have legitimate arguments" but I will not listen to dumb ideas any more. Nothing will stop me from lynching G32 tomorrow. I have nothing more to say on the topic of the VE mislynch.
You didn't answer my question. You nearly ended up causing a no-lynch, so I'm wondering what was going through your head at the time. There's no way you'd actually get enough people to switch within 5 minutes to be able to kill Gambit, but you still posted this, egging people on to switch with you:
On June 01 2012 07:55 Blazinghand wrote: ##UNVOTE ##VOTE GAMBITX32
LYNCH HIM
LYNCH HIM NOW BEFORE HE GETS AWAY
HURRY
So I'm wondering what exactly were you trying to do? Just make a statement? What? Obviously he wasn't going to die, so what else were you trying to accomplish? The only thing it could have ended with is a no-lynch, was that what you were shooting for?
Maybe he spotted a truer scum and would rather a no lynch?
What information are you fishing for here Wiggles?
Thailand is my new obsession
Blazinghand United States. June 02 2012 04:38. Posts 12200
On June 02 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah wiggle-dawg has been kinda lurking since his D1 helpfulness.
I haven't been lurking, I just haven't been around and have been busy the last couple days. I can't post when I'm not home, or doing something else.
You know as well as I do the problem with this kind of explanation. Obviously, it's possible you have been busy. Maybe you were. But if you are a lurking scum there's nothing preventing you from making the explanation, right? And wasn't a plank of your candidacy for mayor the fact that you'd be active? I think it's a fair statement that you're lurking more than would be expected.
On June 02 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote: I voted for scum. Somehow, during D2 I got distracted from my tried-and-true tactic of tunnelling scum and thought "oh these people have legitimate arguments" but I will not listen to dumb ideas any more. Nothing will stop me from lynching G32 tomorrow. I have nothing more to say on the topic of the VE mislynch.
You didn't answer my question. You nearly ended up causing a no-lynch, so I'm wondering what was going through your head at the time. There's no way you'd actually get enough people to switch within 5 minutes to be able to kill Gambit, but you still posted this, egging people on to switch with you:
On June 01 2012 07:55 Blazinghand wrote: ##UNVOTE ##VOTE GAMBITX32
LYNCH HIM
LYNCH HIM NOW BEFORE HE GETS AWAY
HURRY
So I'm wondering what exactly were you trying to do? Just make a statement? What? Obviously he wasn't going to die, so what else were you trying to accomplish? The only thing it could have ended with is a no-lynch, was that what you were shooting for?
On principle I will not stand for G32's kind of play. He is scum and he will die like scum. And honestly, if I ended up causing a no-lynch, then we'd still have our vigilante who handn't shot his gun yet. Yeah ok maybe it wasn't optimal play given what I knew at the time, but I did the right thing. I should have never unvoted G32, and I never will again so long as he's alive.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
Blazinghand United States. June 02 2012 04:39. Posts 12200
Like, if someone's gonna claim scum to the thread, there's no way I'm not gonna vote him. I'll vote G32 and write beautiful cases against him until he's dead.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote: Grush, if you starsense is telling you VE is not scum, don't vote for him...vote for who you believe to be scum; I would recommend wriggles(long as its not me) Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow.
The only reliable way I can think of to confirm VE is 1)tell him who to shoot 2)someone protect the target 3) target tells us whats up. Before you post comments on why this is a stupid plan, I want to say that I agree it's a stupid plan and this is not going to happen tonight because so many things can go wrong.
#Vote:VE
Where is the reason for voting ve here?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mr. Wiggles Canada. June 02 2012 04:54. Posts 4685
On June 02 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah wiggle-dawg has been kinda lurking since his D1 helpfulness.
I haven't been lurking, I just haven't been around and have been busy the last couple days. I can't post when I'm not home, or doing something else.
You know as well as I do the problem with this kind of explanation. Obviously, it's possible you have been busy. Maybe you were. But if you are a lurking scum there's nothing preventing you from making the explanation, right? And wasn't a plank of your candidacy for mayor the fact that you'd be active? I think it's a fair statement that you're lurking more than would be expected.
On June 02 2012 02:57 Mr. Wiggles wrote: BH, did you really believe you could get 14 other people to vote-switch with you within 5 minutes?
On June 02 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote: I voted for scum. Somehow, during D2 I got distracted from my tried-and-true tactic of tunnelling scum and thought "oh these people have legitimate arguments" but I will not listen to dumb ideas any more. Nothing will stop me from lynching G32 tomorrow. I have nothing more to say on the topic of the VE mislynch.
You didn't answer my question. You nearly ended up causing a no-lynch, so I'm wondering what was going through your head at the time. There's no way you'd actually get enough people to switch within 5 minutes to be able to kill Gambit, but you still posted this, egging people on to switch with you:
On June 01 2012 07:55 Blazinghand wrote: ##UNVOTE ##VOTE GAMBITX32
LYNCH HIM
LYNCH HIM NOW BEFORE HE GETS AWAY
HURRY
So I'm wondering what exactly were you trying to do? Just make a statement? What? Obviously he wasn't going to die, so what else were you trying to accomplish? The only thing it could have ended with is a no-lynch, was that what you were shooting for?
On principle I will not stand for G32's kind of play. He is scum and he will die like scum. And honestly, if I ended up causing a no-lynch, then we'd still have our vigilante who handn't shot his gun yet. Yeah ok maybe it wasn't optimal play given what I knew at the time, but I did the right thing. I should have never unvoted G32, and I never will again so long as he's alive.
No, I don't think I said anything about activity in my mayoral campaign. I can't help if I'm not here, and I'm not going to hedge or sacrifice things I need to do outside of the game to appease how much people want me to post. That's all I'm going to say about that, since it's unconfirmable and doesn't have much bearing on the game. I can say I'm not lurking though, since I'm not just sitting around posting whenever my name comes up or it suits my goals to post, and that's verifiable from the thread. That's the difference between inactivity and lurking.
Also, thanks for the answer. And, to answer Hyaach, I wanted to see if Blazinghand made up some excuse about how VE flipped town so it would have been good if we no-lynched, or that no-lynching would have saved VE, or something along those lines. Yes, it's true, but that explanation would be pandering to us based on the result of the flip. At the time, it wasn't clear that VE was town, so appealing to our guilt that VE flipped town as a way to exonerate himself for his actions means that he's probably scum. He did that somewhat, but he added that "maybe it wasn't optimal play given what I knew at the time", meaning he agrees that it was probably a bad move at the time, so he passed the test.
"Dulce et decorum est pro Aiur mori" -Zealot | TL Mafia is the best sub-forum around, no lie!
marvellosity United Kingdom. June 02 2012 05:01. Posts 11372
On June 02 2012 03:25 Mattchew wrote: Yo, manason's logic is so backwords and shit, that I think its actually genuine and he believes it. His attempt to explain his (albeit stupid) logic actually gives me a fairly strong town read on him. I could be wrong and getting played by the "newb card" but I just fail to see how someone with teammates and in their first (i believe) game would
a. bus zealos that early along with maybe bussing kita should he flip scum b. type something that unbelievably suspicious in the thread with teammates that would tell him not to post that c. type that freely in the thread, as to say I don't sense hesitation or a fear of looking scummy, I just sense a guy who doesn't want to be lynched.
Like BH I don't buy the newb card.
Have you already forgotten Magic where Zealos said he was happy to lynch a townie day 1, and that was under Katina's guidance?
Mattchew, I am going to refer you back to my answer to your question:
On June 01 2012 06:43 papapanda wrote: Both you and I have read MZ's cases, as well as other posts, can we agree that his points are valid? However as I was reading it, I was, using your term, on the fence for VE's lynch. What I didn't like was how he responded to the pressure. He claimed vig, one the the toughest role to prove at this stage of the game. Ofcourse it's possible he is vig, and what ticked for me was what he said about if he was the mafia leader, the mafia would try more to save him...(can't find the post, but I'm pretty certain that I read it today). Wifom doesn't work as defenses...(learned that the hard way last game, marvellosity;p). Anyhow, my point is I find VE scummy and people trying to spread the vote are also worth looking at(hi kenpachi).
On June 01 2012 07:12 papapanda wrote: VE has been contradicting himself through the game. The thing about playing completely different playstyle, day-game and night-game, is just bullocks. VE's vote-jumping I dislike. VE's responses are inappropriate as a town.
Marv, May I ask you what part of the case you find invalid?
------------------------------- Gambit vigshot/lynch looks good. He still hasn't responded/claim, nor did he post anything actually regarding the game except explaining his vote. He conveniently dodged analysis of VE at all by saying he looked town 2 days ago.
austinmcc United States. June 02 2012 05:11. Posts 2942
Regarding G32: I'm on board with a shot or a lynch. Wasn't down with that before, because of the whole mason bit, but he hasn't responded to that.
Furthermore, after some thinking, there's an alternative explanation for him knowing the name of the role. Scum gets fakeclaim pms, right? If one of the fakeclaims were a mason, it would have to be the same as the name of Toad's role, so he'd know the name of the role without actually being a mason. For those that expressed doubt at having 2 sets of mason circles in the same game, him reading a fakeclaim and blurting that out provides a way to explain him knowing the name of the role without relying on chance.
Fe fi fo fum.
jaj22 United Kingdom. June 02 2012 05:33. Posts 1373
"Mason Recruiter" wasn't the actual name of Toad's role, IIRC. He was just a mason, who recruited. Gambit's use of capitals suggests that he thought it was an actual role name. My theory is that Gambit has played mafia somewhere else where "Mason Recruiter" was a common role, and jumped to the conclusion that this was Toad's role. Besides, he doesn't seem to be 100% dumb so he should have claimed by now.
Re-reading Mattchew and BH, but my initial feeling is that I don't want to kill BH anymore and Mattchew's way below Kita and Gambit. Hopefully we have a vig left, because I really don't want to see Gambit still here tomorrow if he's not going to talk.
Re-read a few filters, wanted to put some thoughts up as I'm about to be gone for the night. Didn't get to everyone. Also, I'm typing this up at the end of work and am headed out, so it's very wall-of-texty and messy. Sorry for that, but I don't have time to clean it up, and I figure better to throw this out there even though I don't expect to get NKed.
On May 31 2012 11:35 kitaman27 wrote: VisceraEyes: case stated earlier sToFu: Apologetic, lacks town tells Mr. Wiggles: Band-wagoning, play has completely dropped off as promising to be a leader strongandbig: stated ealier Hassybaby: Active lurker. Refusing to contribute even after people have complained about his apathy.
You asked for my opinions? Here.
VE: MZ makes a compelling case, as stated earlier. Wiggles: If you look through my (very short) filter, you'll notice that I begin with confidence in Wiggles. His posting quality hasn't changed - all his posts are well thought out. What concerns me, however, as indicated in my reads post, was that his posts felt too diplomatic and designed to appeal to the masses. You'll also notice that I tried to subtly call Wiggles out for not posting. His posts are growing even less frequent and more noncommittal. Although nothing he has done is indicating mafia, but his lack of action is growing ever more suspicious. SnB: I'm on the fence. His posts read as those of a logical townie, and (as I have stated previously) I believe Mattchew's case on SnB is frankly devoid of content. Others, however, have pointed out his somewhat scummy behavior throughout this game. I wouldn't lynch him - I'd even rather hit a lurker. Hassy: Who?
Notable thoughts not really mentioned: Mattchew - Continued tunnel-vision on SnB. Little to no interaction with any other case. grush - Bad play in previous game. Target of D1 lynch and clears up posting. Pressure on him fades and his posting quality and quantity decreases accordingly. This feels like scum play - post well when called out, and lurk hoping not to be noticed for the rest of the time. Manason - I can't be the only user with alarm bells ringing in my head after his last few posts. I believe that he is scum. I'm starting my case against him. However, I feel like it'll be slightly lacking (plus he might just be having a bad day), and there are plenty of worthy lynch targets in the meantime.
I dislike the lurker lynch at this point in time. The cases for each one are roughly equivalent, as demonstrated by how quickly the lurker lynch changed. so I'm going to stick with what I've been pushing for since I read Zealos' filter and his postings (after my reads post):
##Vote: Zealos
As a minor note, I feel that a Zealos lynch, considering his early activity and initial willingness to impart information, shouldn't be considered a lurker lynch.
in particular pushed my read way green. I forget who originally asked for reads on a list of players, but sTofu provided his thoughts, however short, on those players and then included others. The extra effort makes it seem less like he's coasting along and just responding when his name came up to give reads on certain players. Moreover, his response to supersoft with + Show Spoiler +
On May 29 2012 15:09 supersoft wrote: lol why am i so much better at this game than you, stofu
A number of reasons, actually: you've probably played a lot more than me, and from your posting history, have probably read more carefully and more deeply than my current time constraints allow me to do, especially given how spam-happy the first few hours appeared to be.
Furthermore, in RL mafia, I often disregard words in exchange for body language and tone, key factors that don't transmit well over the internet.
I would actually appreciate any advice but everything you say to me in this game would be tainted by your initial hostility towards me.
came off townie to me. Doesn't leap all over super, doesn't push the newbie card hard, just gives a very open and honest response.
After marv's question to VE-voters about why they found him scummy apart from sheeping MZ's case, I wanted to find him scummy. I went to his filter specifically looking to find scumminess. Came up empty. He was on zealos, had some doubts about gambit early on when zealos and other candidates had already been pushed. For the most part, his logic has lined up with mine and so despite looking for anything scummy, he comes off squeaky clean in my mind.
Most of the other filters I looked at gave me felt scummier: manason, ange777, papapanda, supersoft. While they're all red here, my strongest read would be ange777 I guess. + Show Spoiler +
Manason Manason has mentioned Kita, Zealos, VE, Wiggles...and that's basically it. Just chimes in on those topics, promises early on to be more active and then tells us he's lazy and doesn't want to dig through filters to make a case, and wants to sheep vets instead. He's basically coasted along without doing anything, and while he mentions Kita and Zealos every 2 posts or so, and ALWAYS mentions that he finds them scummy, he doesn't really get into why he finds them scummy. Same refrain over and over on some easy targets without ever giving his own reasoning.
Ange777 Ange777 hasn't posted much, but his filter looks awful to me. Start with Zealos, and his initial mention - + Show Spoiler +
On May 30 2012 07:01 Ange777 wrote: Ok, so I kind of tried to read all the trillion posts and probably already forgot half of them or mixed up the players.
Some thoughts:
Zealos
I actually would not suspect him to be scum just because he claims VT. In my last (and first) game everyone was pressured to claim directly which - surprisingly - lead to everyone claiming VT. Having only played that game where not claiming was deemed scummy I believe I could have done the same as Zealos. Although he has played several games already and should definitely be more experienced (and maybe know that claming on the start of day 1 is not a common strategy).
On May 30 2012 05:48 Zealos wrote: I am a townie, because of this, I am posting under the assumption that everyone knows I'm town.
In this game no one knows for sure whether you are town until you flip green. So why should any of us assume otherwise?
"VT claim doesn't make him seem scummy, but saying you're townie IS scummy." After that post, he just soft defends Zealos and pushes G32 instead -- + Show Spoiler +
On May 31 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote: I would prefer voting Gambit over Zealos. A Zealos lynch won't give us much info. If the possibility of him being mason is the only reason against it, I'd still vote for Gambit.
Do you think Gambit's posts have been scummier? What information do you expect to glean from a Gambit lynch?
To be honest, I think both are at a same scummy level. Posting a big list with names and commenting on them seems like a nice way to fake a townvibe. They don't really address any follow up questions (especially Gambit with his two posts only). Wiggles quoted some people soft defending Gambit which could give us some information if we lynch Gambit. For a lack of a better lynch target I am willing to give a Gambit lynch a try.
On May 31 2012 05:21 marvellosity wrote: P.S. - I want a good reason why people aren't voting Zealos. Why is Gambit a stronger lynch?
Why is Zealos a stronger lynch in your opinion?
-- Again, he doesn't really deal with Zealos on the merits. He talks about info, says Zealos and G32 equally scummy, NEVER gives any legitimate read on Zealos, but is always pushing G32 instead (without acknowledging why he finds G32 scummier. I don't like the Zealos/G32 bits at all.
Beyond Zealos, what does ange777 talk about? Not much. But where he chimes in, IF you already view him scummy, he looks worse. He fishes for a little info on what a mason recruiter might be, not inherently scummy on its own. He looks hard at the vote counts, again, not inherently scummy, but if your scumteam is trying to make sure you've got the votes, you're going to be really concerned with the numbers right up until deadline.
papapanda papapanda has similar intereactions with zealos, but using hyaach is an alternative. Again, doesn't seem to focus on why zealos is/isn't scummy, but just wondering why you wouldn't go with hyaach isntead. What also stuck out to me was - + Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote: Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow.
. Again, not much on its own, but if you find him scummy, he brings up the possibility of a G32 ninja vote before G32 does so, which can hint at that being the scum plan for G32 to vote without having to be here and respond to questions.
supersoft I gave supersoft a pass on his N1 play, and I'm typing this out last so I'm going to rush through which sucks because rereading his filter made him look much scummier. If you throw out the explanation for his N1 conduct and just judge him on everything else, I don't like it. I will grab quotes later, don't figure I'll be a NK, and can fill this in. If you open his filter, you can read along though. He starts out barely pushing zealos. Never makes an actual case, really says anything, but starts to take credit for the idea that zealos is scummy. Provides some reasoning/case only after town has turned clearly anti-zealos. After N1, wants to know who took bullets and wants any vigs who shot to claim (Again, not inherently scummy unless you see him as such). I also really dislike his alternate plan for leaving VE alive overnight. If you reread it, and the discussion that follows, we start to poke some holes in it. It requires the watcher to claim, it doesn't get us anything in a lot of situations, etc. I didn't catch him fully responding to the concerns, which I really disliked and is what made me reread him without taking N1 into account.
I also reread grush. Now that I feel the frustration of trying to read him firsthand, I can understand the lynch-Grush campaigns a little more. All I can say is that despite his promise of improvement, I don't see it. Yes, some posts are more than a line. But overall, he seems happy to just poke in, make some jokes, dick around, and then leave.
Like I said; if G32 flips scum then the reasoning behind the ange case isn't very solid. Rushed words so its in before deadline.
Kita:
On June 01 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote: Dang it VE, you distracted me from pushing my true target, Zealos!
On June 02 2012 02:17 kitaman27 wrote: Is this the first game of mafia you've ever played Manason? If so, how did you find out about this game?
These posts since the Night post are so weirdly apathetic that it cant escape notice. Does kita not give a fck that VE flipped vig? It doesn't even sound like he's interested in finding out if Manason is scum. The tone reeks of apathy.
His first and only major push was on VE. Blah blah yeah other people also pushed VE, but I think Kita is a good enough town player that I can use the rule of Palmar; if the first and only major case pushed is a massively wrong mislynch, then something is up. Kita hasn't really pushed anyone else, and especially has hardly pushed anyone since his flip. Where's his direction now?
On May 30 2012 14:55 kitaman27 wrote: Not much substance to this post, but here are my thoughts for alternative candidates.
Hassybaby has not shared his opinion on a single player this game. I'd like to request a large post from him within the next 24 hours or he should be strongly considered as a vig target tommorrow night. Zealos has disappeared. As a lynch candidate, he needs to be extremely active today if he hopes to stay out of trouble. marvellosity's filter is far too safe for my liking.
GambitX32's two posts look as if he knew he would be expected to share his opinion, but had nothing to say, so he just made a few generic statements about a bunch of players. I don't see anything of value that his post adds to the thread.
I'm unwilling to trust Wiggles, but I'm unable to put together anything close to a valid case against him. With myself and Meapak being town, it doesn't bode well for him for him from a balance perspective, although VE could also serve as the scum leader.
S&B and Manason are still sketchy. I want a more developed case from each of them that adds something to the thread.
If we consider that Wiggles could be scum, in this post (one of the few constructive ones he has), notice how he gives more deference to Wiggles than the other players. He says the other guys are suspicious, sketch, w.e, but with Wiggles he is unwilling to put together a case.
On June 01 2012 01:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Hey, I'm going to be out of town today, so I'm giving a heads up that I might not be back before the lynch.
I'm going to be switching my vote to VE. I thought he was town after his day 1 play, but the constant flip-flopping to try to look good and the nonsensical role-claim and breadcrumb have changed my mind. Basically, it looked like he kept changing his read due to pressure in the thread, and it ended up with him contradicting himself multiple times as he tried to wiggle out of the pressure. Then add on the claim that's very convenient and easy to fake as scum (along with a "breadcrumb" that shows nothing), and you have the reasons for my switch of opinion. I guess I was wrong about VE being town, as his play today has shown. =/
##Unvote: Gambit ##Vote: VisceraEyes
A decent reason to switch, but since he had a town town read on VE, it's a bit strange that he switched.
has been lurking not scumhunting as much as he should as mayor blah blah blah papa still scum for weird ass explanations
maju likely scum for doing absoltutely nothing and not sounding like hes interested in doing anything
deadline
learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic
EchelonTee United States. June 02 2012 08:02. Posts 3403
Commander Blazinghand, captain of the new resistance formation sat at the helm, waiting for the transmitter to go through. *Beep-beep-beep*.
The Tallest appeared on screen, bemused at this pathetic act of rebellion.
"We" growled the commander, "are the Resisty!".
"That's a stupid name" replied Purple, ordering one of his subordinates "Call them and tell them,we're gonna blow them up! huh!"
*Pew-pew* *Pew-pew*
Due to unexpected interference from Earth, the mighty Irken ship flew toward Earth, with the Resisty close at hand. Yet due to the might of the Irken technologies, the power cores of two ships were swapped, causing the Resisty ship to hurtle into Earth at blistering speeds.
Understanding the implications of failure, Blazinghand shouted "Activate the shrinky self-destruct! No alien thieves are gonna steal the secrets of this ship!"
And thus it did, hurtling chunks of molten metal into the atmosphere, landing unfortunately into Skool, vaporizing into sludge the bitter supersoft, and also foolish earth children strongandbig, Grush57 and Mattchew
Blazinghand, Lard Nar, Leader of the Resisty (Mad Hatter) has self-destructed! + Show Spoiler +
Welcome to TL Mafia LV! You are Lard Nar, Leader of the Resisty. Too long has the galaxy fought against Irken tyranny, too long have the weak races been enslaved. You have decided to show the Irkens that they can't take away everything! You have two Resisty Bombs. Each Night, you may Place both bombs on two players. You may also swap the positions of the bombs as often as you like at night. If your target dies, you receive the bomb back to place again at night. If you die at any point during the invasion, your last action will be to set off these bombs, killing whoever they are attached too. You win with Earth.
supersoft, Ms. Bitters (Jailer) has been vaporized! + Show Spoiler +
Welcome to TL Mafia LV! You are Ms. Bitters, The creepy School teacher. The Irken Invasion has ruined the order in your class room, and as such you need to keep some students after class for punishment. Each night, you may choose to place one person in detention. They will be unable to perform any actions, and will also be protected from one attempt on their life. You win with Earth.
strongandbig, Grush57 and Mattchew, the regular Earthings have been disintegrated! + Show Spoiler +
Welcome to TL Mafia LV! You are an Earthling. As a very ordinary and slightly dim witted member of this planet, you don't have any special powers to bring against the Irkens. All you can do is be vigilant and root them out of hiding. You win with Earth. Duh.
Note: All contents of the daypost are only flavor
It is now Day 3. With 19 players alive it takes 10 to lynch. Voting is mandatory and must be done in the voting thread. The day ends in 48 hours, on June 3 18:00 CDT
Last edit: 2012-06-04 07:49:41
Probulous Australia. June 02 2012 08:03. Posts 3784
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
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