| DruidzShift Sweden. May 10 2012 04:58. Posts 71 | Profile # |
Hey guys!
I am rank D pretty new to SCBW,Going from sc2.
I have a question,In late game vs zerg should i go to mass mech/vessel or SK-terran?
I think SK-terran might be a little bit harder to micro then mass mech.
What do you like and what do you think is the best for late games vs zerg? |
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 wcr.4fun Belgium. May 10 2012 05:43. Posts 685 | Profile # |
I'm new as well, but from what I've heard sk terran is the best vs pro players. Pure mech and bio-> mech gets shut down if the zerg is incredibly good at using queens because charon boosters gives goliaths range 8, whereas spawn broodlings is 9. Besides in a normal game the terran won't have so much gas to afford a lot of vessels (to irradiate the queens) and the queens might even come as a surprise. And with good scourge usage the vessels might be not so much of a threat either (because he doesn't have too many). At our lvl (D), mech is a lot stronger since it doesn't need that much attention (micro).
Pro's might also be able to take advantage of the certain timings where a bio-> mech terran is weak. Whereas lower lvl players don't or can't.
In conclusion: I'd say sk terran is strongest at pro lvl which is why we see it so often. But at lower lvl's mech seems a lot stronger because zergs don't have gosu queen micro and don't see the strategy that much either (so often don't even know how to respond). mech also requires less babysitting (micro) in my opinion. So it might be easier to execute on a mechanics lvl.
Note: I'm new at broodwar, take with grain of salt. I just like to post and contribute. Last edit: 2012-05-10 05:43:45 |
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| Pyre_Fly United Kingdom. May 10 2012 06:43. Posts 31 | Profile Blog # |
SK Terran seems a smoother transition, since you will most likely have all the necessary upgrades, most of the infrastructure needed to build marines and vessels and so forth. It can be hard to micro, but it is effective against a late game Zerg army with ultras, defilers etc, and is mobile and can be split up to attack the Zerg's many bases.
The mech switch is difficult to pull off, but the idea is that it takes advantage of the massive amount of pressure that you have already been putting on the Zerg through the early and mid game. The way Zerg deals with mech is having a lot of expansions and powering. If you have a big bio army in the mid game, it doesnt allow the Zerg to get those bases up, and so you have a timing window where you can mass up mech units and push. Once you hit a decent/critical mass of mech units, the Zerg likely wont have enough stuff to break it. Also, if they stick with making ultras, so much the better.
Personally, I wouldnt say one is harder over the other, given the timings and upgrades for mech, and the macro speed/micro needed for SK Terran. |
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| Toasterbaked United States. May 10 2012 07:11. Posts 153 | Profile Blog # |
I would strongly recommend lategame mech.
Queens are a very unorthodox solution and gets shut down by EMP of it is scouted, and the huge amount of PSI spent in energy-depleted queens can easily cost you the game.
The pros of SK Terran is that it has (obviously) amazing mobility and is very effiecient with a small number of expansions (2-3). However, mech becomes much stronger as the number of bases increase, because even pro's can't keep up with macro with the insane number of marines requiring to be produced and micro'd.
Also, SK Terran is incredibly fragile, meaning a few micro mistakes (running marines into lurkers, ect.) can cost you the game, not to mention that mass marine + vessel is becomes very very weak once Zerg gets plague.
The mech upgrades scale well, and zergs will have a very hard time shutting down mech with full upgrades. |
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| Holgerius Sweden. May 10 2012 07:12. Posts 16798 | Profile Blog # |
The mech switch is 100% the way to go in the modern game. It's so much stronger. There's a very good reason why almost literally every late game TvZ these days involves lots of heavy metal. Zergs have gotten so good at turtling with defilers until they have 4+ gases, and then the hive tech will just roll bio-centered play (unless you seriously outplay them, in which case you would've outplayed them even harder if you had practised and employed the mech switching instead).
SK Terran is still viable to a certain degree of course, and if you have a play-style that's centered around aggression and multitasking, and you simply find it more fun/challenging/satisfying to go for it, then by all means work on that. But if you're asking what's objectively best, I don't think bio-play has much going for it. Heavy fucking metal all the way. |
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| xxpack09 United States. May 10 2012 07:58. Posts 1798 | Profile Blog # |
| SKTerran is just so hard to do vs highly armor-upgraded ultras--they're just so much easier to handle with mines and/or tanks |
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| Musiq United States. May 10 2012 08:41. Posts 354 | Profile # |
Pyre_Fly pretty much nailed it, Mech is so much better if you put plenty of pressure on Zerg midgame hence why modern TvZ revolves around either a fast ebay after first rax (turtle early to have a upgrade advantage) or mass rax vs 3 hatch mutalisk to fight on the field and deny the 3rd gas. SKTerran is still very viable, you just have to really abuse drops and have excellent use of mines.
@ xxpack09: I feel that ultras are not so hard if you start adding firebats to your M&M army to kill off zerglings |
| | Music is the medicine of the mind || Kill a Zergling and a hundred more will take its place. |
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| Chef May 10 2012 08:51. Posts 9708 | Profile Blog # |
I wouldn't worry about it. When you're starting out, games only go late if both players stop knowing what they're doing at the same time. Usually the winner is the player who knows their strategy furthest into the game, so keep adding on blocks of 'what do I do after this' starting from the very beginning all the way to the late mid game. It is best to become proficient from the early game.
To answer your question in the most exact way though, the pros like to open bio and switch to mech because the zerg trend is to rush to defilers as soon as possible, and defilers kinda suck vs mech so you kind of make their whole game plan for not. It's extremely powerful if you know what you are doing. If you don't know what you're doing tho, you should just add on some starports or facs to spend your gas on vessels and tanks. You can mech switch if you want, but do it because you think it's fun, or do it because you know your strategy very well. Don't just do it because you've seen it in vods, you'll win more often just sticking to bio if you don't really know what you're doing. |
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| heliusx United States. May 10 2012 09:58. Posts 1521 | Profile Blog # |
| I try not to use sk build unless im sure he will be heavy mutalisk. Sk is hard to micro for a begginer so I would take that into consideration also. Just be sure to transition into late game with some tanks because you will hae a very tough time otherwise. |
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| JMave Singapore. May 10 2012 12:44. Posts 1754 | Profile Blog # |
the most recent trend seems to be opening up bio then transitioning into mech. this happens when he gets hive tech. what happens here is that zerg can no longer rely on that hive on 3 gas and has to move to a fourth, which will give you a very good amount of map control with vultures and mines and allowing you to expand.
you also kinda force him to be in a position where he would have to decide on unit composition. but at d level, sk terran works really well. even at higher levels, the high vessel count is very hard to deal with.
A good demo game of mech transition is
Last edit: 2012-05-10 12:45:50 |
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| gutshot United States. May 10 2012 15:36. Posts 404 | Profile # |
| as a zerg player, I would say late-mech is wayyyyyyyyyy more harder to deal with than SK-terran but it's also harder for them to execute imo |
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| ymir233 United States. May 10 2012 20:20. Posts 1247 | Profile Blog # |
| Late-game mech. However, it's harder to get a third/fourth while denying the Zerg's bases if you go straight mech and it's VERY hard to multitask and late-mech transition from bio. So SK Terran is easier to get into, but not necessarily as straightforward to win once you get into it. I would also suggest what Flash did against Calm, semifinals EVER 09 OSL - send ninja death squads of MnM around the map to deny bases and to keep up map control while building up 3/4 bases, getting about 5 factories in addition to the usual 6 rax, and spamming vessels/tanks like a motherfucker to the point where in the endgame, the zerg can't head into your bases b/c you have so many fuckin tanks (and some MnM) sitting there and you can just travel around with your ninja death squads and your vessel cloud to continuously kill everything the Zerg has. |
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 GTR May 10 2012 21:49. Posts 39111 | Profile Blog # |
| at a lower level it is easier to do mech than to do sk terran |
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| Zergneedsfood United States. May 10 2012 22:07. Posts 5352 | Profile Blog # |
SK Terran feels sexier.
If you want to feel sexy and beautiful, do SK Terran.
If you want to be a Terran scumbag, then play mech. But know that while you're doing that, you're losing a small percentage of sexiness for every second that you're not doing SK Terran. |
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| icystorage Philippines. May 11 2012 00:00. Posts 4009 | Profile Blog # |
| if you have the proper mechanics, then SK! there's nothing scarier than a vessel cloud |
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| Holgerius Sweden. May 11 2012 00:56. Posts 16798 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 00:00 icystorage wrote:
if you have the proper mechanics, then SK! there's nothing scarier than a vessel cloud
A mass of 3-3 tanks is scarier. |
| | I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence. |
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| koreasilver Canada. May 11 2012 02:59. Posts 7493 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 00:00 icystorage wrote:
if you have the proper mechanics, then SK! there's nothing scarier than a vessel cloud
Lategame tank walls are always scarier than vessel clouds. |
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| Toasterbaked United States. May 11 2012 04:28. Posts 153 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 00:00 icystorage wrote:
if you have the proper mechanics, then SK! there's nothing scarier than a vessel cloud
Marines and vessels have to annoy the Zerg to death
On the other hand...
Tanks roll over zergs |
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| storkfan May 11 2012 06:42. Posts 425 | Profile # |
| Remember what Sea said.. If you play mech transition properly, it is a 100% victory. Especially on maps like Ground Zero. |
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| heliusx United States. May 11 2012 06:45. Posts 1521 | Profile Blog # |
you have to annoy the zerg to death in all tvz games. i like to play tvz in a reactionary style. preventing the 3rd gas is pretty vital to dominating the zerg. make sure you know what the zerg is doing at all times. |
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