| bizMark Canada. May 10 2012 12:38. Posts 7 | Profile # |
I feel like the Queen buff is actually a Terran nerf more than anything else. Queens now have the same range as marines and hellions... early harass from terran is basically nullified now. You can't even stop creepsread anymore with a reactor hellion opening, the hellions are just used for early map control.
It really upsets me that they make major changes like this when the game seems to be more balanced than it has ever been before. Just because Zerg progamers have not been winning at GSL or MLG recently doesn't mean a patch is needed. Sometimes metagame shifts happen that need time to polish over.
It's a hardknock life for a casual Terran gamer these days!! |
| | you realize, all those units, fuck off, were halluc |
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| s3rp Germany. May 10 2012 12:38. Posts 2802 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust.
Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting
All terran buffs since release:
Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
This is ignoring the back and forth with the bunker. The Thor changes makes them unusable besides funky lategame TvZ. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____>
Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. thats a buff. less gas.
Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP .
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals.
In TvP its not more precious . Never has been and never will be .... |
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| torm3ntin Brazil. May 10 2012 12:38. Posts 2368 | Profile # |
observers will all in all the time now  |
| | Grubby and Ret fan, but a TERRAN player :D |  |
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| dAPhREAk Nauru. May 10 2012 12:38. Posts 8698 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2012 12:35 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On May 10 2012 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 10 2012 11:29 S_SienZ wrote:
On May 10 2012 11:27 pPingu wrote:
* Queen anti-ground weapon attack range increased from 3 to 5
... This is such a big nerf to reapers, helions and bunker rushes Did they provide any reason behind those choices?
They let us choose between super imba 50 energy and this. This had less harsh feedback. Kinda like telling hostages you're gonna kill them and saying you're just gonna starve them instead.
I think you're taking things just a LITTLE out of proportion here. It's not like queens are suddenly outranging hellions or bunkers or reaper bunkers or something. Yes, it's a buff, but it's milder than the energy buff.
Uh... actually yes, they are outranging reaper bunkers lol And they equal hellions so....
Oh man, really? If so, that's completely atrocious. How is terran gonna put on any pressure early game?
not sure thats accurate according to LP.
Reaper Range: 4.5 (ground), 5 (buildings)
bunker adds +1 range.
so reaper in bunker is 5.5, queen is 5. |
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| Gosi Sweden. May 10 2012 12:39. Posts 3165 | Profile # |
And Terran gets nothing. This isn't even fun anymore. You can scream and show statistics from GSL on how good Terran is how much you want, the point is still that all of us are just ladder scrubs trying to have fun but we don't because it gets so stale quickly when we get nerfed every patch. Meanwhile P and Z gets new buffs in their favour even when they are doing just fine at the same time as they are throwing so much shit in our fucking faces because Terran was OP way back and Terran players in the pro scene sweep the floor with their competition like it has anything to do with Terran being OP now in 2012.
No wonder the ladder is a Z/P fest. zzzz |
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| Flonomenalz Nigeria. May 10 2012 12:39. Posts 2863 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:34 VincendioS wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:30 Flonomenalz wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:23 Zheryn wrote:
It's funny how all these terrans say "no need to make roaches or spines anymore". Queens are still going to kill hellions EXTREMELY slow, so if you don't have roaches or spines the terran will still put their hellions in the mineral line and kill all drones even if the zerg is attacking with queens.
You wall with Evos and put 5 range Queens to block in between . Why exactly would you need Roaches or Spines ?
And once you see a committed wall like that, you plop down a 3rd CC because the Zerg isn't taking a third base anytime soon due to that much static defense. And then you are ahead economically. And the problem is....?
Please use your mind. There is not problem in the actual TvZ in early/mid game. When you see games from pros, zergs havent hard time spreading their creep. So making a buff of the queen will make it way more easier. So it let the zerg make what the fuck he wants. (taking 3rd drone up) and the Terran just can't deal with it anymore. It forces to go the the late game point where Terran are weaker if they don't got any advantage in the early/mid game. That's the problem.
You cannot take a third against hellions without making roaches. Unless the Terran goes to sleep with his hellions.
Zergs DO have a hard time spreading creep, please don't make stupid judgments just because you watch pro streams on ladder where they fool around and have full map creep spread. You rarely even see Zergs in GSL go past half the map. And so often, Terran takes out most of your tumors with just 1-2 scans.
Please use your mind. |
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| m!st Australia. May 10 2012 12:40. Posts 95 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust.
Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting
All terran buffs since release:
Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
This is ignoring the back and forth with the bunker. The Thor changes makes them unusable besides funky lategame TvZ. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____>
Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. thats a buff. less gas.
Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP .
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals.
It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl)
Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. |
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| TheRealNanMan United States. May 10 2012 12:41. Posts 1230 | Profile Blog # |
This is awesome news! I'm really excited about the new obs build changed ^.^
It is going to be interesting to see how the overlord and queen buffs play out |
| | Sc2 Caster for Playhem, AGL, SPGL, ESEA & DC LAN | Host of Sc2 Up & Coming | The Godfather of Team LXG | Youtube.com/NanMan | Twitch.tv/TheRealNanMan | Twitter.com/TheRealNanMan | Twitter.com/Sc2UPandComing |  |
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| ManicMarine Australia. May 10 2012 12:41. Posts 317 | Profile # |
Queen buff is way over the top, a buff of not one but two range? Why is this change taking place? Are zerg still having major trouble in the early game? I honestly can't see why this change is needed.
I understand the rationale behind the OV speed buff, and I also understand the obs change even if i disagree with it, but I don't know why they're buffing the queen. |
| | Manic by name, Manic by nature. |  |
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| Ace1123 Philippines. May 10 2012 12:43. Posts 1118 | Profile # |
| So our reactored hellion is much nullified now, and it will be really hard for us terrans now. Goodness gradually sc2 is just becoming ugh. |
| | ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR, |  |
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 Neurosis United States. May 10 2012 12:44. Posts 891 | Profile # |
| The scouting buffs are alright I guess only because all the ladder maps are now ridiculously huge. That said, queens did not need a buff. |
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| s3rp Germany. May 10 2012 12:45. Posts 2802 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust.
Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting
All terran buffs since release:
Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
This is ignoring the back and forth with the bunker. The Thor changes makes them unusable besides funky lategame TvZ. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____>
Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. thats a buff. less gas.
Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP .
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals.
It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl)
Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units.
Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has.
Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds.Last edit: 2012-05-10 12:46:11 |
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| gengka Malaysia. May 10 2012 12:45. Posts 420 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:39 Gosi wrote:
And Terran gets nothing. This isn't even fun anymore. You can scream and show statistics from GSL on how good Terran is how much you want, the point is still that all of us are just ladder scrubs trying to have fun but we don't because it gets so stale quickly when we get nerfed every patch. Meanwhile P and Z gets new buffs in their favour even when they are doing just fine at the same time as they are throwing so much shit in our fucking faces because Terran was OP way back and Terran players in the pro scene sweep the floor with their competition like it has anything to do with Terran being OP now in 2012.
No wonder the ladder is a Z/P fest. zzzz
Correction. Pro scene is not dominated by terran anymore. Latest MLG was won by a Zerg. Previous GSL is won by the same Zerg player (u know who). And the current GSL Semi Final consists of 3 protoss and 1 Terran.
So yeah, Terran is supposingly strongest in the early/mid game and weakest in the late game but now our advantage is denied by P and Z's faster scouting and also stronger queen defence. So where do we stand now? |
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| jw232 United States. May 10 2012 12:45. Posts 151 | Profile # |
Bunker is not changed
Was this actually in the original blog post? It wasn't there when I checked. |
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| ThatETmonkey Sweden. May 10 2012 12:45. Posts 8 | Profile # |
Now remove the energy from the Thor and the Battlecruiser.
Make Ghosts cost more gas and less minerals like every other caster unit (terran float loads of gas lategame TvP)
Now we have a game again.
And yes remove the reaper from the game so noone makes them by misclick.
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| Jojo131 Philippines. May 10 2012 12:46. Posts 1324 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust.
Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting
All terran buffs since release:
Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
This is ignoring the back and forth with the bunker. The Thor changes makes them unusable besides funky lategame TvZ. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____>
Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. thats a buff. less gas.
Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP .
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals.
It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl)
Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units.
Terran comps are just more mineral heavy than the other races (typically). That's not necessarily a bad thing since you can elect to get fewer geysers during the early game for a quicker third, etc. |
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| di3alot May 10 2012 12:46. Posts 172 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:34 VincendioS wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:30 Flonomenalz wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:23 Zheryn wrote:
It's funny how all these terrans say "no need to make roaches or spines anymore". Queens are still going to kill hellions EXTREMELY slow, so if you don't have roaches or spines the terran will still put their hellions in the mineral line and kill all drones even if the zerg is attacking with queens.
You wall with Evos and put 5 range Queens to block in between . Why exactly would you need Roaches or Spines ?
And once you see a committed wall like that, you plop down a 3rd CC because the Zerg isn't taking a third base anytime soon due to that much static defense. And then you are ahead economically. And the problem is....?
Please use your mind. There is not problem in the actual TvZ in early/mid game. When you see games from pros, zergs havent hard time spreading their creep. So making a buff of the queen will make it way more easier. So it let the zerg make what the fuck he wants. (taking 3rd drone up) and the Terran just can't deal with it anymore. It forces to go the the late game point where Terran are weaker if they don't got any advantage in the early/mid game. That's the problem.
don't you think that maybe a hellion expand gives a Terran to much?
map ctrl a free natural and when you want a earlier third then zerg.
you get a factory and a reactor you could also deny creep.
you force at least a spine
serious don't you think thats a bit much for just 4 hellions? |
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| VincendioS Belgium. May 10 2012 12:46. Posts 107 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:39 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:34 VincendioS wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:30 Flonomenalz wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:23 Zheryn wrote:
It's funny how all these terrans say "no need to make roaches or spines anymore". Queens are still going to kill hellions EXTREMELY slow, so if you don't have roaches or spines the terran will still put their hellions in the mineral line and kill all drones even if the zerg is attacking with queens.
You wall with Evos and put 5 range Queens to block in between . Why exactly would you need Roaches or Spines ?
And once you see a committed wall like that, you plop down a 3rd CC because the Zerg isn't taking a third base anytime soon due to that much static defense. And then you are ahead economically. And the problem is....?
Please use your mind. There is not problem in the actual TvZ in early/mid game. When you see games from pros, zergs havent hard time spreading their creep. So making a buff of the queen will make it way more easier. So it let the zerg make what the fuck he wants. (taking 3rd drone up) and the Terran just can't deal with it anymore. It forces to go the the late game point where Terran are weaker if they don't got any advantage in the early/mid game. That's the problem.
You cannot take a third against hellions without making roaches. Unless the Terran goes to sleep with his hellions. Zergs DO have a hard time spreading creep, please don't make stupid judgments just because you watch pro streams on ladder where they fool around and have full map creep spread. You rarely even see Zergs in GSL go past half the map. And so often, Terran takes out most of your tumors with just 1-2 scans. Please use your mind.
I'm using my mind I'm sorry. Actually you CAN take a third without roaches. Did you ever see the time to kill an hatch with hellions? You can make zerglings just to let your drone making the hatch. and then fall back.
And no zerg havent hard time spreading creep. It's pretty normal in mid game that the terran scan the creep but I was talking about early game. If you can spreak you creep faster then the push from the Terran will be slower because the creep will be obviously nearer of the Terran base. It makes the mid game terran weaker and so, the lategame will be too. |
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| GTPGlitch May 10 2012 12:47. Posts 2119 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2012 12:39 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:34 VincendioS wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:30 Flonomenalz wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:26 s3rp wrote:
On May 10 2012 12:23 Zheryn wrote:
It's funny how all these terrans say "no need to make roaches or spines anymore". Queens are still going to kill hellions EXTREMELY slow, so if you don't have roaches or spines the terran will still put their hellions in the mineral line and kill all drones even if the zerg is attacking with queens.
You wall with Evos and put 5 range Queens to block in between . Why exactly would you need Roaches or Spines ?
And once you see a committed wall like that, you plop down a 3rd CC because the Zerg isn't taking a third base anytime soon due to that much static defense. And then you are ahead economically. And the problem is....?
Please use your mind. There is not problem in the actual TvZ in early/mid game. When you see games from pros, zergs havent hard time spreading their creep. So making a buff of the queen will make it way more easier. So it let the zerg make what the fuck he wants. (taking 3rd drone up) and the Terran just can't deal with it anymore. It forces to go the the late game point where Terran are weaker if they don't got any advantage in the early/mid game. That's the problem.
Zergs DO have a hard time spreading creep, please don't make stupid judgments just because you watch pro streams on ladder where they fool around and have full map creep spread. You rarely even see Zergs in GSL go past half the map. And so often, Terran takes out most of your tumors with just 1-2 scans. Please use your mind.
Oh rats! It must be so disappointing to only get free speed boost/vision on HALF the map, not the WHOLE map. Ugh, what a total shame!
In reality, I can't really see the sense behind these changes. Pretty much every non-zerg and even several zergs in the call to action thread were completely against queen changes (multiple pros chimed in as well)... And Blizzard just decides to go through with the changes, because so many zergs were having so much trouble with reactor hellions and reapers...
EDIT:
don't you think that maybe a hellion expand gives a Terran to much?
map ctrl a free natural and when you want a earlier third then zerg.
you get a factory and a reactor you could also deny creep.
you force at least a spine
serious don't you think thats a bit much for just 4 hellions?
If you take a faster third than zerg its usually very easy to scout and easy to kill terran (3CC is slightly harder, but a well-timed baneling bust will usually destroy everything).
Factory+reactor=200/150
+4 hellions=600/150
Spine =150/0
Wow, so expensive....Last edit: 2012-05-10 12:51:29 |
| | Jo Byung Se #1 fan |  |
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| power-overwhelming Canada. May 10 2012 12:48. Posts 306 | Profile # |
On May 10 2012 12:45 gengka wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:39 Gosi wrote:
And Terran gets nothing. This isn't even fun anymore. You can scream and show statistics from GSL on how good Terran is how much you want, the point is still that all of us are just ladder scrubs trying to have fun but we don't because it gets so stale quickly when we get nerfed every patch. Meanwhile P and Z gets new buffs in their favour even when they are doing just fine at the same time as they are throwing so much shit in our fucking faces because Terran was OP way back and Terran players in the pro scene sweep the floor with their competition like it has anything to do with Terran being OP now in 2012.
No wonder the ladder is a Z/P fest. zzzz
Correction. Pro scene is not dominated by terran anymore. Latest MLG was won by a Zerg. Previous GSL is won by the same Zerg player (u know who). And the current GSL Semi Final consists of 3 protoss and 1 Terran. So yeah, Terran is supposingly strongest in the early/mid game and weakest in the late game but now our advantage is denied by P and Z's faster scouting and also stronger queen defence. So where do we stand now?
At equal footing. Sorry, 6 months of all TvT's forced Blizz to bring Terran down to the same level as Zerg and Protoss  |
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