| Integra Sweden. May 11 2012 02:54. Posts 4994 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 02:52 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 02:46 SpeCtor wrote:
On May 11 2012 02:26 Razzor wrote:
On May 10 2012 11:22 Bonkerz wrote:
No Hope for terran tvp thanks blizz!
Why this guy was banned for post this ?
Because the only buff toss got was a 10 second build buff for the observer. Balance whine = ban
The 12-observer timing push will come a couple of minutes earlier though, so I can see his frustration.
Why do Protoss need observers to push against Terran? |
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| Baptista Poland. May 11 2012 02:54. Posts 119 | Profile Blog # |
| lol "bunker was not changed :D". but why obs build time is decreased? |
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| tdt United States. May 11 2012 02:56. Posts 3096 | Profile # |
| Lame patch. Toss already put rather benign1 base or stargate aggression on zerg and they get 3 base pretty easy. This Queen buff makes it worse. Any zealot presure requires less zerlings to deal with thus more drones. So essentially Zerg expands at will or can all in. Protoss can FFE that's it. |
| | Supporting: MC | Naniwa | HuK | DRG | July | Polt |ThorZaIN | MKP |  |
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| RaiZ France. May 11 2012 02:59. Posts 2516 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 01:51 Zephirdd wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 01:40 treekiller wrote:
I have not noticed any difference so far and I play terran. My helions are just as strong, you just have to elevator them.. It kindof sucks that i cant go cloak shees any more, but it wasnt that good anyways.
what does banshees have to do with anything here? Only the anti-ground range was changes, anti-air is the same.
Maybe he was refering to overlord's suicides being able to spot tech-ed starports more efficiently ? |
| | Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. |
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| Mehukannu Finland. May 11 2012 03:00. Posts 387 | Profile # | |
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| tdt United States. May 11 2012 03:00. Posts 3096 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 02:54 Baptista wrote:
lol "bunker was not changed :D". but why obs build time is decreased?
Earlier scouting. |
| | Supporting: MC | Naniwa | HuK | DRG | July | Polt |ThorZaIN | MKP | |
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| oopsyoucantmove United States. May 11 2012 03:03. Posts 38 | Profile # |
any1 know when servers coming back up?
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| LordSubtle Canada. May 11 2012 03:05. Posts 21 | Profile # |
| As a zerg player i find these changes quite nice...tho not anywhere near game breaking as some claim. The overlord speed is going to help me alot in zvz, easier to scout if hes making drones or lings. especially on bigger maps. Queen range alot more fair than the 50 starting energy...as for the 10 second less observers sure why not, toss needs love sometimes too. |
| | Subtlety is the art of saying what you want and getting out of the way before it is understood. |  |
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| incontrolshaircut United States. May 11 2012 03:07. Posts 13 | Profile # |
i dont understand why they buff the zerg scouting/denial capabilities... the upgrade to OL speed and queen range now makes it impossible for toss to scout for early game zerg cheese, ie. the probe will never be able sneak to the back of the zerg base to get a crucial scout on an early roach warren or baneling nest, or hell even to see if gas is still being mined, the queen range will snipe the probe at the natural if not surely before it can see the zerg main... this is the biggest problem for toss early game scouting and now its an even bigger problem O.o we toss players will now have to play the early game COMPLETELY BLIND, other options like early robo and hallucinate obviously comes too late to scout for these types of things...
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| FabledIntegral United States. May 11 2012 03:07. Posts 8399 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 02:11 zJayy962 wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 02:06 FabledIntegral wrote:
On May 11 2012 01:39 Font wrote:
I dont know where there is such a huge discussion about this. I dont even play starcraft 2 and I can see exacly why they did this. Think of a 2 rax opening/bunker rush
This costs nothing to terran, they will bring back the racks and salvage the bunker. Terrran is guaranteed to do damage to zerg`s economy with that opening wether its the zerg pulling drones or you getting the hatchery. By making the range bigger for queens it makes it easier for them to stop that bunker from getting up or those marines just killing you straight up.
Starcraft isnt a game meant to end in 5 mins but mid to late game.
Terran is not guaranteed to kill even a single drone with a 2rax. If the 2rax does not kill a single drone you can view the Terran behind in the sense they cannot contain creep like hellions would.
Actually they still could do so until speed finishes upgrading with marines. 5 - 6 marines will always be cost effective against slow lings.
That's if you want to risk maintaining a rally outside their base. If the Zerg decides to churn out slowlings, they can easily overwhelm your marines. And it's a terrible trade for Terran, even if lings were forced, because then Zerg knows Terran cannot move out anytime soon, and can freely drone and take a third, whereas they can't (as easily) if you retreat. When you only have 5-6 marines you can push creep out against the marines no problem unless it's a map like Cloud Kingdom, where you still can easily by creeping along the top ledges. |
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| ArcticFox United States. May 11 2012 03:07. Posts 655 | Profile # |
Nothing but a bunch of theorycraft. Basically nothing about the matchup changes except queen range will make 2rax and hellion run-bys easier to defend, creep easier to protect, and overlords better at scouting the tech of the Terran.
Now, each of those sounds unimportant on their own. Combine them all together though, and it makes both early pressure harder to pull off, droning much easier (since you can scout more easily whether you need to pump drones or units), and creep spread much easier (since queens can push the hellions back now), meaning it makes the early game harder for Terran, and sets up an even STRONGER midgame for Zerg.
These are facts, and are not up for debate.
The only thing that we have yet to see are order of degrees. Maybe these changes will only affect things slightly (which is my guess, maybe skimping on 1 or 2 queens and throwing out a handful of extra drones), or maybe hellions are going to become near ineffective (with well placed queens being able to completely zone out hellions now, making run-bys much less effective). What I do know for sure is that it's going to take more than 3-4 days of people screwing around on a custom map to figure these things out.
Didn't we use to have a PTR for these kinds of things? |
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| mophideus United States. May 11 2012 03:11. Posts 7 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 02:54 Integra wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 02:52 FairForever wrote:
On May 11 2012 02:46 SpeCtor wrote:
On May 11 2012 02:26 Razzor wrote:
On May 10 2012 11:22 Bonkerz wrote:
No Hope for terran tvp thanks blizz!
Why this guy was banned for post this ?
Because the only buff toss got was a 10 second build buff for the observer. Balance whine = ban
The 12-observer timing push will come a couple of minutes earlier though, so I can see his frustration.
Why do Protoss need observers to push against Terran?
lol.. he make joke silly  |
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| FairForever Canada. May 11 2012 03:11. Posts 2192 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 03:07 ArcticFox wrote:Nothing but a bunch of theorycraft. Basically nothing about the matchup changes except queen range will make 2rax and hellion run-bys easier to defend, creep easier to protect, and overlords better at scouting the tech of the Terran. Now, each of those sounds unimportant on their own. Combine them all together though, and it makes both early pressure harder to pull off, droning much easier (since you can scout more easily whether you need to pump drones or units), and creep spread much easier (since queens can push the hellions back now), meaning it makes the early game harder for Terran, and sets up an even STRONGER midgame for Zerg. These are facts, and are not up for debate. The only thing that we have yet to see are order of degrees. Maybe these changes will only affect things slightly (which is my guess, maybe skimping on 1 or 2 queens and throwing out a handful of extra drones), or maybe hellions are going to become near ineffective (with well placed queens being able to completely zone out hellions now, making run-bys much less effective). What I do know for sure is that it's going to take more than 3-4 days of people screwing around on a custom map to figure these things out. Didn't we use to have a PTR for these kinds of things?
Your post, summed up.
1) You've theorycrafted.
2) And now I'm theorycrafting. But my theorycraft is FACT and is not up for debate.
Though to be fair what you said is fact (except some of the "much"). That the changes make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Decreasing a ling's attack cooldown by 0.00001 would also make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Doesn't mean it's gamebreaking. |
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| Riff- Canada. May 11 2012 03:14. Posts 38 | Profile # |
| any ETA on NA server revival? ;; |
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| ArcticFox United States. May 11 2012 03:14. Posts 655 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 03:11 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 03:07 ArcticFox wrote:Nothing but a bunch of theorycraft. Basically nothing about the matchup changes except queen range will make 2rax and hellion run-bys easier to defend, creep easier to protect, and overlords better at scouting the tech of the Terran. Now, each of those sounds unimportant on their own. Combine them all together though, and it makes both early pressure harder to pull off, droning much easier (since you can scout more easily whether you need to pump drones or units), and creep spread much easier (since queens can push the hellions back now), meaning it makes the early game harder for Terran, and sets up an even STRONGER midgame for Zerg. These are facts, and are not up for debate. The only thing that we have yet to see are order of degrees. Maybe these changes will only affect things slightly (which is my guess, maybe skimping on 1 or 2 queens and throwing out a handful of extra drones), or maybe hellions are going to become near ineffective (with well placed queens being able to completely zone out hellions now, making run-bys much less effective). What I do know for sure is that it's going to take more than 3-4 days of people screwing around on a custom map to figure these things out. Didn't we use to have a PTR for these kinds of things?
Your post, summed up. 1) You've theorycrafted. 2) And now I'm theorycrafting. But my theorycraft is FACT and is not up for debate. Though to be fair what you said is fact (except some of the "much"). That the changes make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Decreasing a ling's attack cooldown by 0.00001 would also make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Doesn't mean it's gamebreaking.
May I point you to my last paragraph where I said that we only know that it made things stronger for Zerg and weaker for Terran, but we don't know by how much yet? Try not to cherrypick.
I never said the sky was falling, I said that it might fall but we don't know yet until it goes live, because it hasn't been tested enough. |
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| incontrolshaircut United States. May 11 2012 03:14. Posts 13 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 03:14 RiffWraith wrote:
any ETA on NA server revival? ;;
someone on bnet forums said 30minutes-2hrs longer O.o |
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| FairForever Canada. May 11 2012 03:17. Posts 2192 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 03:14 ArcticFox wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 03:11 FairForever wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:07 ArcticFox wrote:Nothing but a bunch of theorycraft. Basically nothing about the matchup changes except queen range will make 2rax and hellion run-bys easier to defend, creep easier to protect, and overlords better at scouting the tech of the Terran. Now, each of those sounds unimportant on their own. Combine them all together though, and it makes both early pressure harder to pull off, droning much easier (since you can scout more easily whether you need to pump drones or units), and creep spread much easier (since queens can push the hellions back now), meaning it makes the early game harder for Terran, and sets up an even STRONGER midgame for Zerg. These are facts, and are not up for debate. The only thing that we have yet to see are order of degrees. Maybe these changes will only affect things slightly (which is my guess, maybe skimping on 1 or 2 queens and throwing out a handful of extra drones), or maybe hellions are going to become near ineffective (with well placed queens being able to completely zone out hellions now, making run-bys much less effective). What I do know for sure is that it's going to take more than 3-4 days of people screwing around on a custom map to figure these things out. Didn't we use to have a PTR for these kinds of things?
Your post, summed up. 1) You've theorycrafted. 2) And now I'm theorycrafting. But my theorycraft is FACT and is not up for debate. Though to be fair what you said is fact (except some of the "much"). That the changes make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Decreasing a ling's attack cooldown by 0.00001 would also make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Doesn't mean it's gamebreaking.
May I point you to my last paragraph where I said that we only know that it made things stronger for Zerg and weaker for Terran, but we don't know by how much yet? Try not to cherrypick. I never said the sky was falling, I said that it might fall but we don't know yet until it goes live, because it hasn't been tested enough.
The buff of overlord speed and queen range is going to lead to a large number of fast-lair 2base slow overlord queen drop strategies.
But yes I totally understand, when I found out immortals were getting +1 range it was clear that ZvP was going to become broken. |
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| oopsyoucantmove United States. May 11 2012 03:19. Posts 38 | Profile # | |
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| FairForever Canada. May 11 2012 03:20. Posts 2192 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 03:19 oopsyoucantmove wrote:
NA server is up
Just watch as the top 20 spots in GM get filled by Zerg in the next six hours... |
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| cydial United States. May 11 2012 03:25. Posts 746 | Profile Blog # |
| I don't understand how my fellow terrans are complaining about these changes. Are your strats that gimmicky that a faster moving overlord and a queen that can shoot a bit further suddenly makes you a shittier player? If that's the case go play LoL. |
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