On May 11 2012 04:27 Crow! wrote: Fun fact! Queens with 1 transfuse each (they can go up to 4 each) now beat equal values of stim + combat shield marines. Nydus worms for fast +1/+1 upgrade Queen busts, anyone?
Huh? Queens are 150 so we're talking two queens vs. six marines. Just tried this out in the unit tester and the queens died with only two transfuses again six a-moved marines with stim/combat shields.
Well the higher number of queens, the better they'd be. Simply because when you're transfusing you're losing so much firepower...
I'm sorry but adding 1 queen and 1 tranfuse vs adding 3 more STIM marines, it should be obvious to anyone what will come out on top.
If its not obvious then take a look at the damage output of the queen and then the marines.
It was in response to what he posted. It logically moves in one direction, sorry if you can't see that. It should be fairly intuitive that if what he's saying is true, up until a certain point at least, the more 1 queen per 3 marines you add, the better it would end up for Zerg.
No, it ends up in favor of marines by a large margin , even more so considering how much damage output you can get in such a small surface area with the size marines are.
Then why are you quoting me as opposed to the person who posted it?
I'm responding to your response of my response.
Responception.
You told me that it should be "obvious" as to what happens. I was merely extrapolating on that other guy's premise. If his premise is true (which he supposedly tested), then what I stated should only amplify it. If his premise is false, then what I stated would actually make the engagement worse, not better.
markrevival United States. May 11 2012 05:03. Posts 199
On May 11 2012 04:27 Crow! wrote: Fun fact! Queens with 1 transfuse each (they can go up to 4 each) now beat equal values of stim + combat shield marines. Nydus worms for fast +1/+1 upgrade Queen busts, anyone?
Huh? Queens are 150 so we're talking two queens vs. six marines. Just tried this out in the unit tester and the queens died with only two transfuses again six a-moved marines with stim/combat shields.
Well the higher number of queens, the better they'd be. Simply because when you're transfusing you're losing so much firepower...
I'm sorry but adding 1 queen and 1 tranfuse vs adding 3 more STIM marines, it should be obvious to anyone what will come out on top.
If its not obvious then take a look at the damage output of the queen and then the marines.
It was in response to what he posted. It logically moves in one direction, sorry if you can't see that. It should be fairly intuitive that if what he's saying is true, up until a certain point at least, the more 1 queen per 3 marines you add, the better it would end up for Zerg.
No, it ends up in favor of marines by a large margin , even more so considering how much damage output you can get in such a small surface area with the size marines are.
Then why are you quoting me as opposed to the person who posted it?
I'm responding to your response of my response.
Responception.
You told me that it should be "obvious" as to what happens. I was merely extrapolating on that other guy's premise. If his premise is true (which he supposedly tested), then what I stated should only amplify it. If his premise is false, then what I stated would actually make the engagement worse, not better.
And my point is.
What is the dps of 3 stim marines? What is the dps of 1 queen? How much health do 3 marines w/combat shields after a stim have? How much health does 1 queen and 1 transfuse give?
There is the answer, it should be obvious because all those stats are avaible to anyone with the game.
And if people want to bring up 'cost efficiency' in this scenario you can't just casually ignore the fact that terran has the ability to micro those marines.
Last edit: 2012-05-11 05:11:18
thurst0n United States. May 11 2012 05:08. Posts 573
Finally, we'll see something other than a hellion opener in TvZ
"I can't help it if I seem homophobic when the only gay people I know have pink highlights, wear hundreds of colorful bracelets and live at the local arcade playing DDR." - Youngminii
FabledIntegral United States. May 11 2012 05:13. Posts 8363
On May 11 2012 04:27 Crow! wrote: Fun fact! Queens with 1 transfuse each (they can go up to 4 each) now beat equal values of stim + combat shield marines. Nydus worms for fast +1/+1 upgrade Queen busts, anyone?
Huh? Queens are 150 so we're talking two queens vs. six marines. Just tried this out in the unit tester and the queens died with only two transfuses again six a-moved marines with stim/combat shields.
Well the higher number of queens, the better they'd be. Simply because when you're transfusing you're losing so much firepower...
I'm sorry but adding 1 queen and 1 tranfuse vs adding 3 more STIM marines, it should be obvious to anyone what will come out on top.
If its not obvious then take a look at the damage output of the queen and then the marines.
It was in response to what he posted. It logically moves in one direction, sorry if you can't see that. It should be fairly intuitive that if what he's saying is true, up until a certain point at least, the more 1 queen per 3 marines you add, the better it would end up for Zerg.
No, it ends up in favor of marines by a large margin , even more so considering how much damage output you can get in such a small surface area with the size marines are.
Then why are you quoting me as opposed to the person who posted it?
I'm responding to your response of my response.
Responception.
You told me that it should be "obvious" as to what happens. I was merely extrapolating on that other guy's premise. If his premise is true (which he supposedly tested), then what I stated should only amplify it. If his premise is false, then what I stated would actually make the engagement worse, not better.
And my point is.
What is the dps of 3 stim marines? What is the dps of 1 queen? How much health do 3 marines w/combat shields after a stim have? How much health does 1 queen and 1 transfuse give?
There is the answer, it should be obvious because all those stats are avaible to anyone with the game.
And if people want to bring up 'cost efficiency' in this scenario you can't just casually ignore the fact that terran has the ability to micro those marines.
You can't calculate it like that whatsoever. I'll give you a moment to think about why.
I love the changes. Zerg didn't have good early scouting and hellions were kind of not balanced. this should help. Makes for a better balanced game imo. They just need to fix the bunker rush now.
blade55555 United States. May 11 2012 05:15. Posts 14081
On May 11 2012 05:14 Dwayn wrote: I love the changes. Zerg didn't have good early scouting and hellions were kind of not balanced. this should help. Makes for a better balanced game imo. They just need to fix the bunker rush now.
Eh I think bunker rush is fine, the only thing I wish that would be changed about it is make it easier to right click on the scv, other then that I don't think bunker rushing should be touched as I don't think it's broken or anything.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Kambing United States. May 11 2012 05:17. Posts 1084
FYI: PDDs now stop the queen melee attack. So under the covers, the visual change is more than just a choice of animation which is kind of neat. Not sure if that's intended by Blizzard although given how things are set up now, it makes sense.
(Also Queen melee attacks are now buffed by ranged attack upgrades rather than melee although I can't remember if this is different from pre-patch.)
Last edit: 2012-05-11 05:24:03
Josh_rakoons United Kingdom. May 11 2012 05:18. Posts 1157
For fuck's sake, Blizzard, stop messing with TvZ. TvZ is the most balanced non-mirror matchup in the game, by far.
step 1) Fix early-game TvP step 2) Fix late-game PvT step 3) Give Protoss a non-gimmicky way to deal with Infestor/Broodlord step 4) Give Zerg a reliable way to fend of Protoss all-ins
I don't care how you do it, but slightly increasing Queen range is not going to help any of the major problems in any matchup.
On May 11 2012 05:17 Kambing wrote: FYI: PDDs now stop the queen melee attack. So under the covers, the visual change is more than just a choice of animation which is kind of neat. Not sure if that's intended by Blizzard although given how things are set up now, it makes sense.
Hellion + Raven rush anyone?
SharkStarcraft Austria. May 11 2012 05:25. Posts 257
Store
lorkac United States. May 11 2012 05:06. Posts 2297
i have to play well now 
