This is the build I've been using for soloing hell act 1-3 (I had a little help in parts of act 2 from a friend and I still haven't finished act 3). Basically just kite everything with traps and bola shot/spike trap/valley of death everywhere. It's extremely effective for soloing, but I wouldn't imagine it being very good for groups of more than 2 people. The one difference I have in my builds is that I use Shadow Power runed with Gloom for every build (I also don't like Twin Chakrams).
Edit: Looking at all these posts - maybe I should actually drop my beloved Shadow Power for Smoke Screen ?
Last edit: 2012-05-19 16:08:31
gutshot United States. May 19 2012 16:12. Posts 404
I've been rolling with a couple of builds in hell mode.
This is my roaming/trash build. It's built to have a good combination of survivability, aoe damage, and single target. I find Caltrops to be mandatory in Hell mode because it helps your entire party kite the ridiculous hard hitting special mobs you find here.
For bosses I have a separate build, for maximum durability and longevity. as well as a focus on sustained single target DPS.
Boss build Obviously there are other totally viable builds but this is what I've been running with.
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Vindicare605 United States. May 19 2012 19:56. Posts 6485
Has anyone experimented with the talent Night Stalker? It doesn't specify what percentage of critical hits result in refunded discipline. I'd imagine if you itemised for Crit, as well as taking the Archery talent with a 1h crossbow that you might be able to have a near-permanent Smoke Screen?
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Cel.erity United States. May 19 2012 21:13. Posts 3582
On May 19 2012 20:00 Paddington wrote: Has anyone experimented with the talent Night Stalker? It doesn't specify what percentage of critical hits result in refunded discipline. I'd imagine if you itemised for Crit, as well as taking the Archery talent with a 1h crossbow that you might be able to have a near-permanent Smoke Screen?
Yeah I really wanted to abuse this too, but the problem is nothing that costs Discipline really deals damage or merits spamming. I don't think it really works as a near permanent Smoke Screen, since you'd need to get multiple crits per second even if it's a 100% proc. Also, it doesn't do anything if you're at max Discipline, which you will be when the fight starts (that's when you get the majority of your crits). I think it's better with Shadow Power since that's a skill you frontload with.
On May 19 2012 20:00 Paddington wrote: Has anyone experimented with the talent Night Stalker? It doesn't specify what percentage of critical hits result in refunded discipline. I'd imagine if you itemised for Crit, as well as taking the Archery talent with a 1h crossbow that you might be able to have a near-permanent Smoke Screen?
It seems that it takes into account where the source of the crit is coming from. In my case (lvl 60 act 3 hell) I like to run rapid fire with fire support and use shadow power + gloom to tank the nastiest of nasties. I have about 23% crit before sharpshooter (33% in caltrops+bait the trap) so I crit quite often, especially when using rapid fire. Now, this is just by eyeing the bar, but I have burned all my discipline and then unloaded with rapid fire (getting 3+ crits a second). It definitely goes up but not as fast as you would expect critting 3 times a second. I then tried with just ranged attack spamming and I would crit less per second but it seems like it would proc more. So my assumption is that it takes #attacks/second into account when it comes to abilities, and that it is probably close to 1 disc per 1 crit for abilities that hit at your base attack rate.
Imo it is still really useful to pick up. Shadow Power is extremely useful because Gloom rune makes instant-death into idgaf im still at full hp. And it looks badass. Generally when I am going into a big fight im using Marked for Death, Caltrops immediately, then when I start taking damage, Shadow Power. The passive gives you enough shadow power to get off at least 2 shadow powers and possibly have enough for a 3rd. It does make quite a difference.
notes: I go for 2h crossbows because they are badass, but also because slower attack rate and high damage makes Crits huge. If for some reason you are using a bow, go for archery instead of ballistics.
On May 19 2012 01:38 garsh0p wrote: i've seen a lot of debates between 2 hander or 2x 1 hander, but what about 1 hander + shield? i gave it a try towards the end of NM and it seems to improve my survivability significantly.
I'm currently only 42 but I'm using Fire Bomb + Spike Trap as my primaries and as such, I don't even need to carry a bow, I'm only looking for the weapon with the highest atk modifier. Right now I'm using a 2h crossbow as its the best I could find, but I would definately turn over to mace+shield knowing that maces have the highest atk modifier, iirc.
Have people played around with Evasive Fire and Ball Lightning (Elemental Arrow).
I'm really enjoying evasive fire as a back-up 2ndary attack to Grenades (with tinker). At close range I use grenades so the backflip doesn't happen, and at far range it's a reasonbly high DPS attack for a builder (125% weapon damage without any runes) and gives 4 hatred instead of the 3 of hunger arrow. With the tactician passive you can run SS + this and have a ton of mobility so you won't miss vault at all saving you a skill slot for something else.
Ball Lightning also seems really awesome, unlike multi-shot (which I still use alongside it actually) it keeps going until it gets the end of its destination and it's attack radius much larger than impale with the piercing. It's also under 1/2 of the hatred cost. But the real kicker is Ball Lightning can hit the same target multiple times. This gives it some great versatility when you need it for a single target. I'm definitely liking it way more than dual chakram.
On May 20 2012 01:03 Logo wrote: Have people played around with Evasive Fire and Ball Lightning (Elemental Arrow).
I'm really enjoying evasive fire as a back-up 2ndary attack to Grenades (with tinker). At close range I use grenades so the backflip doesn't happen, and at far range it's a reasonbly high DPS attack for a builder (125% weapon damage without any runes) and gives 4 hatred instead of the 3 of hunger arrow. With the tactician passive you can run SS + this and have a ton of mobility so you won't miss vault at all saving you a skill slot for something else.
Ball Lightning also seems really awesome, unlike multi-shot (which I still use alongside it actually) it keeps going until it gets the end of its destination and it's attack radius much larger than impale with the piercing. It's also under 1/2 of the hatred cost. But the real kicker is Ball Lightning can hit the same target multiple times. This gives it some great versatility when you need it for a single target. I'm definitely liking it way more than dual chakram.
I think ball lightning has the highest (sustainable) aoe dps hands in packed corridors, hands down. My thinking with the DH is that it's a squishy character (itemize DEX), so don't get hit, and the best position you can be in is with a column of enemies heading towards you, so positioning/slowing is everything.
The rationale behind the build is that, regardless, if you're getting surrounded, you are dead, so ball lightning has the highest aoe dps in survivable situations (when monsters are in a column) .
Rapid fire has the highest single target dps for the demon hunter (fire support increases it slightly), (and also benefits tremendously from having a slow, high damage weapon).
the rest of the skills are there to maximize survivability/mobility: vault (w/ tumble to position yourself), shadow power (for when you do get cornered or jailer/waller mobs you can often burst your way out of bad situations.
Bat companion + vengeance is obvious, when you're dpsing you want to be dpsing. With a bit more + hatred per second gear though vengeance could be swapped out for something that gives even more dps.
Cull the weak is often overlooked: since rapid fire with web shot slows, it's free 15% dmg to your single target. (I sometimes sub ball lightning for frost arrow, but it's pretty situational)
(another option is to swap shock collar out for justice is served, but I find that with a bit of hatred per second on gear, there's more than enough hatred for almost constant rapid fire or ball lightning as is, and you need to move around at times anyways, so your hatred regens, chain gang and heavy burden are also both good options that synergize with the build being big on positioning and capitalize on cull the weak)
I'm not sure if anyone else has run into this, but I decided I wanted to try out dual 1h crossbows and found out that I would deal about 4-5% more damage with a single 1h crossbow and a quiver. I know it isn't that the weapons are low level since i just bought them and they are much higher level than my quiver. I don't see why anyone would want to use dual crossbows if this was the case but I can't figure out why it is like this.
silencefc United States. May 20 2012 03:36. Posts 211
On May 20 2012 03:30 DeltaX wrote: I'm not sure if anyone else has run into this, but I decided I wanted to try out dual 1h crossbows and found out that I would deal about 4-5% more damage with a single 1h crossbow and a quiver. I know it isn't that the weapons are low level since i just bought them and they are much higher level than my quiver. I don't see why anyone would want to use dual crossbows if this was the case but I can't figure out why it is like this.
Rage spam. Fast as shit. Blast out tons and tons of attacks and spam rage abilities. I'm sure mathematically it evens out pretty well on the rare occasion you can actually stand there and shoot, but when you're trying to stutter-step, attack speed is too high to get the most out of it.
BTW, @OP, can we get some consolidation of stuff that gets brought up every single page into the OP? Like this bit?
http://jinglehelltech.blogspot.com -- Pics of my rig in Profile
On May 20 2012 03:36 silencefc wrote: I think you can use the offhand crossbow for on-hit effects.
But I've been using a 1h Crossbow + Quiver since like level 20 lol (54 now).
Funny =) I'm the other way around. Used 2h Xbow + quiver for act 1 normal + half of act 2. Then switched to 2x 1h Xbows. Been playing like this ever since (lv 45 ATM, act III nightmare)
The problem I have is finding a decent quiver + Bow/Xbow. 1H Xbows go for much MUCH cheaper on the EU AH.
Last edit: 2012-05-20 04:44:21
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GGTeMpLaR United States. May 20 2012 04:43. Posts 3827
I ended up switching to dual 1h for the hatred generation and Bola Shot (Lightning Orb). It lets me stunlock bosses/tough uniques almost completely, which tbh, should not be a feature of the game. I don't understand why bosses don't have immunity to these kinds of things.
On May 20 2012 03:36 silencefc wrote: I think you can use the offhand crossbow for on-hit effects.
But I've been using a 1h Crossbow + Quiver since like level 20 lol (54 now).
Funny =) I'm the other way around. Used 2h Xbow + quiver for act 1 normal + half of act 2. Then switched to 2x 1h Xbows. Been playing like this ever since (lv 45 ATM, act III nightmare)
The problem I have is finding a decent quiver + Bow/Xbow. 1H Xbows go for much MUCH cheaper on the EU AH.
That's kinda weird, you'd think ultimately dual wielding 1hand xbows would yield higher dps since they generally get more +dmg mods, and can socket for +dmg.
For me at end of hell/inferno I have had much more success with 2h and quiver, I find that most of the time I am just shoot n scooting a lot, bursting down stuff and then using ss and other escapes to re-position to burst again.
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JingleHell United States. May 20 2012 03:37. Posts 11262
