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| Keyboard Warrior United States. May 11 2012 12:31. Posts 999 | Profile # |
Maybe the best prelude for this discussion is one from Jeff Koons:
I believe in advertisement and media completely. My art and my personal life are based in it. I think that the art world would probably be a tremendous reservoir for everybody involved in advertising.
Modern art has been such a divisive topic people either go crazy about it or are driven mad by its "pointlessness". It is easy to understand both these position
s since modern art, fueled by present consumer, advertising-based, and short attention span society seem to go against the very heart of traditional art. I am not an art expert but I draw my appreciation of modern art from the psychological dimensions that inspire its creation and reception (I am into psychology afterall), as well as on the general social meaning that it creates and exposes.
Let us go back to Jeff Koons. Koons may be best described as the most commercial artist ever. He does not make his own artworks. He has a "factory" of workers and designers that manufacture it for him in a fordish assembly-line manner. But this does not discredit his art at all. In fact it only highlights it even furthere. To demonstrate this point, consider some of these iconic works from hi Celebrations series:
![[image loading]](http://images.artnet.com/images_US/magazine/reviews/drohojowska-philp/drohojowska2-13-08-7.jpg)
Balloon Dog
![[image loading]](http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/spain/bilbao/koonspuppy/0016.jpg)
Puppy at Guggenheim, Bilbao, Spain
Many old-school and "serious" art critics are deeply offended by Koons and his "gimmick", but in my opinion, Koons best illustrates the philosophy of our time. We live in a shallow consumerist culture, and Koons is merely showing us the mirror. Here is another work by an equally "modern" artist, Damien Hirst:
The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living
![[image loading]](http://www.damienhirst.com/images/hirstimage/DHS5796_771_0.jpg)
For the Love of God
While Koons is more of an in-your-face kind of artist, Hirst seem to bring a bit of philosophical introspection into his works. If one looks closely at what Hirst is trying to achieve, I think it is obvious that this introspection reveals something problematic about modern society, more than Koons' commercialism, and that to determine how representation can be challenged and brought to terms with an equally modern anxiety, usually about nothing and about everything.
Finally, we get to MBW (Mr. Brainwash), Thierry Guetta, who is considered modern arts biggest "ìt" artist. I was fortunate to attend his Life is Beautiful exhibit in California a couple of years ago.
![[image loading]](http://www.mrbrainwash.com/prints_gallery/Prints/Prints/mobam.jpg)
Barack Obama
![[image loading]](http://www.mrbrainwash.com/prints_gallery/Prints/Prints/ml.jpg)
Mona Lisa
![[image loading]](http://www.mrbrainwash.com/prints_gallery/Prints/Prints/bp_cn.jpg)
Bat Papi and Cat Nana
MBW perfectly illustrates that modern art Warhol philosophy: reproduce an iconic image until it becomes meaningless. MBW does not just reproduce, but deliberately strips images off with meaning. You can say that it is so stupid that its thoguth-provoking, or that it's thought-provoking that it's stupid. And maybe this is the real purpose of art nowadays, of modern art, of being meaningless, of being stupid, but still being art, because the world is actually meaningless and stupid - but you can comment on it through art.
What does TL think?
Last edit: 2012-05-11 14:23:38 |
| | Not your regular Keyboard Warrior ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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| Pinkie United States. May 11 2012 12:35. Posts 145 | Profile # |
| these look cool, I should be studying but Im really intrigued by modern artists. Could you post some more stuff? |
| | The Difference between Stupidity and Genius, is that genius has its limits |
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| LarJarsE United States. May 11 2012 12:36. Posts 1326 | Profile Blog # |
| I'm down for modern art and all, but some nice talent is great too. Technical talent I mean, with traditional, non computer media. I like a good painting/drawing with great detail and composition. |
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| Gesamtkunstwerk May 11 2012 12:36. Posts 134 | Profile # |
Good line up of artists for "modern art". You seem to get the basic "idea" of modern art although you don't state it categorically, but you should have gone back further with your quote, to the early and still meaningful Warhol: If you want to have meaningful art, you must first have a meaningful society.
PS: I was at Life is Beautiful too. Damn garbage, to be honest. |
| | Death is the means to travel to the stars! |
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| juked United States. May 11 2012 12:37. Posts 623 | Profile # |
I really like modern art. I find it different and appealing in more of a interesting and creative piece other than a beautiful piece. I don't like all modern art because I find some to be to abstract and I feel there is no message/creativity to be seen.
I don't understand the bat papi and Cat nana but find them pretty amusing. |
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 Waxangel United States. May 11 2012 12:38. Posts 19821 | Profile Blog # |
I think you're starting with a certain premise about what 'art' is that 95% of the people who reply will want to fight over
but don't mind me, I'm just hopelessly cynical -_-Last edit: 2012-05-11 12:38:32 |
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| Flamingo777 United States. May 11 2012 12:38. Posts 1140 | Profile # |
| I suppose modern art is, at least somewhat, taking advantage of a largely desensitized first-world culture, attracting them with both images and ideas that haven't already been explored by the consumer. |
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| Gesamtkunstwerk May 11 2012 12:39. Posts 134 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 12:36 LarJarsE wrote:
I'm down for modern art and all, but some nice talent is great too. Technical talent I mean, with traditional, non computer media. I like a good painting/drawing with great detail and composition.
Yeah, but art is more than form. Anyway, I'm writing a longer reply on this thread later, too much to discuss too little time. |
| | Death is the means to travel to the stars! |
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 lorkac United States. May 11 2012 12:42. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
Modern makes me want to stab my eye with a spoon terran.
It forsakes art as act of creation and simply attempt to make essays out of pictures. The piece becomes impossible to appreciate within its own merits and one has to contextualize it with very specific and very time chained anchors.
Count me as one of those who will, most likely, forever hate "modern art."
+ Show Spoiler +Really it's just 20th Century art in general that I hate, as well as a lot of contemporary art as well. |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| Gesamtkunstwerk May 11 2012 12:47. Posts 134 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 12:42 lorkac wrote:Modern makes me want to stab my eye with a spoon terran. It forsakes art as act of creation and simply attempt to make essays out of pictures. The piece becomes impossible to appreciate within its own merits and one has to contextualize it with very specific and very time chained anchors. Count me as one of those who will, most likely, forever hate "modern art." + Show Spoiler +Really it's just 20th Century art in general that I hate, as well as a lot of contemporary art as well.
If you mean essays as those made by angry self-absorbed teens writing about how they have life all-figured out, then we have an agreement.
There are great modern arts though, Lucien Freud, Paula Rego, and even Mark Rothko (technically abstract exp., but I'd choose him to represent modern art then Koons all day). |
| | Death is the means to travel to the stars! |
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| Oiseaux United States. May 11 2012 12:47. Posts 630 | Profile # |
I'm slightly confused by what you're asking us. "What does TL think?" Think about what; Specifically modern art that is aimed at consumer culture? Modern art in general? The cliche question of "is this 'art?'"
To quickly answer those questions in no sort of order: of course it's art. In more academic English language, it's a text and can be analyzed for it's meaning, as pretty much anything is a text. I don't feel it's less valued because it's trying to comment on commercialism. And lastly just because one might not be depicting artistic technique does not mean one isn't depicting artistic meaning. |
| | "[S]o be ready to kiss a few donkeys with glued-on paper horns during your unicorn hunt." -Some stupid 4x4 magazine |
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| 1Eris1 United States. May 11 2012 12:48. Posts 5797 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 12:42 lorkac wrote:Modern makes me want to stab my eye with a spoon terran. It forsakes art as act of creation and simply attempt to make essays out of pictures. The piece becomes impossible to appreciate within its own merits and one has to contextualize it with very specific and very time chained anchors. Count me as one of those who will, most likely, forever hate "modern art." + Show Spoiler +Really it's just 20th Century art in general that I hate, as well as a lot of contemporary art as well.
I completely and vehemetely agree with every word of this. |
| | Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT! |
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| Licmyobelisk Philippines. May 11 2012 12:49. Posts 3675 | Profile Blog # |
I just recently watched the intouchables.. I think modern art for me is that part when omar sy was painting and asking for the price :D
Well, not every modern art.. there's still awesome stuff I saw in a gallery last time (very political and moving). I just don't really like andy warhol stuff, I can't appreciate it sorry |
| | I don't think I've ever wished my opponent good luck prior to a game. When I play, I play to win. I hope every opponent I ever have is cursed with fucking terrible luck. I hope they're stuck playing underneath a stepladder with a black cat in attendance a |
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| Serpico May 11 2012 12:49. Posts 4048 | Profile # |
| I think most modern "art" is comical at best. I'd make it to try and fool someone into buying it. I'd rather just make music and release it for free if I seriously wanted to try my hand as an artist in any medium. Last edit: 2012-05-11 12:49:41 |
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| Oiseaux United States. May 11 2012 12:52. Posts 630 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 12:49 Serpico wrote:
I think most modern "art" is comical at best. I'd make it to try and fool someone into buying it. I'd rather just make music and release it for free if I seriously wanted to try my hand as an artist in any medium.
People can easily make music to "fool" people into buying (yes I know you said release it for free). It simply boils down to the value people place on certain aesthetics. |
| | "[S]o be ready to kiss a few donkeys with glued-on paper horns during your unicorn hunt." -Some stupid 4x4 magazine |
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| Gesamtkunstwerk May 11 2012 12:56. Posts 134 | Profile # |
| On another note, one that is not covered in the opening post, there is critical discussion now in the art scene about the inclusion and the qualification of street art, graffiti, stencil, comics, and other similar nontraditional arts into the fine arts. Comics is making a heady entry as there are massive literature to support its cause, as just a series of Gaiman's graphic novels will attest. Banksy, a UK-based street artist is also taking the modern art dialogue to another level. But just like there are horrible oil paintings and great oil paintings, there are also horrible graffiti and great graffiti. I am personally excited by the fact that graffiti is now gaining musuem credentials. In many ways it is like a subsumation of rebel art back into mainstream. The political tension is funny and ironic. |
| | Death is the means to travel to the stars! |
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| Oiseaux United States. May 11 2012 12:58. Posts 630 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 12:56 Gesamtkunstwerk wrote:
On another note, one that is not covered in the opening post, there is critical discussion now in the art scene about the inclusion and the qualification of street art, graffiti, stencil, comics, and other similar nontraditional arts into the fine arts. Comics is making a heady entry as there are massive literature to support its cause, as just a series of Gaiman's graphic novels will attest. Banksy, a UK-based street artist is also taking the modern art dialogue to another level. But just like there are horrible oil paintings and great oil paintings, there are also horrible graffiti and great graffiti. I am personally excited by the fact that graffiti is now gaining musuem credentials. In many ways it is like a subsumation of rebel art back into mainstream. The political tension is funny and ironic.
Just wanted to throw some love towards Banksy. Dude's stuff is awesome. |
| | "[S]o be ready to kiss a few donkeys with glued-on paper horns during your unicorn hunt." -Some stupid 4x4 magazine |
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| lorkac United States. May 11 2012 12:59. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 12:47 Gesamtkunstwerk wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 12:42 lorkac wrote:Modern makes me want to stab my eye with a spoon terran. It forsakes art as act of creation and simply attempt to make essays out of pictures. The piece becomes impossible to appreciate within its own merits and one has to contextualize it with very specific and very time chained anchors. Count me as one of those who will, most likely, forever hate "modern art." + Show Spoiler +Really it's just 20th Century art in general that I hate, as well as a lot of contemporary art as well.
If you mean essays as those made by angry self-absorbed teens writing about how they have life all-figured out, then we have an agreement. There are great modern arts though, Lucien Freud, Paula Rego, and even Mark Rothko (technically abstract exp., but I'd choose him to represent modern art then Koons all day).
Don't get me wrong--I love art. I even enjoy looking at modern art while I walk around a museum, scroll through website galleries, etc... I even find some of their messages interesting and meaningful.
However--I still hate modern art. Me enjoying a piece every now and then will not quell my hatred of it.
I do wish my hatred of it made me stop going to galleries... |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| lorkac United States. May 11 2012 13:01. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
On May 11 2012 12:56 Gesamtkunstwerk wrote:
On another note, one that is not covered in the opening post, there is critical discussion now in the art scene about the inclusion and the qualification of street art, graffiti, stencil, comics, and other similar nontraditional arts into the fine arts. Comics is making a heady entry as there are massive literature to support its cause, as just a series of Gaiman's graphic novels will attest. Banksy, a UK-based street artist is also taking the modern art dialogue to another level. But just like there are horrible oil paintings and great oil paintings, there are also horrible graffiti and great graffiti. I am personally excited by the fact that graffiti is now gaining musuem credentials. In many ways it is like a subsumation of rebel art back into mainstream. The political tension is funny and ironic.
I love art as environment. Comics, graffiti, etc... Love the idea of art as creation instead of lesson. |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| Oiseaux United States. May 11 2012 13:02. Posts 630 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 12:59 lorkac wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 12:47 Gesamtkunstwerk wrote:
On May 11 2012 12:42 lorkac wrote:Modern makes me want to stab my eye with a spoon terran. It forsakes art as act of creation and simply attempt to make essays out of pictures. The piece becomes impossible to appreciate within its own merits and one has to contextualize it with very specific and very time chained anchors. Count me as one of those who will, most likely, forever hate "modern art." + Show Spoiler +Really it's just 20th Century art in general that I hate, as well as a lot of contemporary art as well.
If you mean essays as those made by angry self-absorbed teens writing about how they have life all-figured out, then we have an agreement. There are great modern arts though, Lucien Freud, Paula Rego, and even Mark Rothko (technically abstract exp., but I'd choose him to represent modern art then Koons all day).
Don't get me wrong--I love art. I even enjoy looking at modern art while I walk around a museum, scroll through website galleries, etc... I even find some of their messages interesting and meaningful. However--I still hate modern art. Me enjoying a piece every now and then will not quell my hatred of it. I do wish my hatred of it made me stop going to galleries...
Ironically, at the end of the day, it's still invoking an emotional response from you (granted one of hatred) which tends to be the typical "point" to art.
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| | "[S]o be ready to kiss a few donkeys with glued-on paper horns during your unicorn hunt." -Some stupid 4x4 magazine |
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