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| Doodsmack United States. May 12 2012 07:03. Posts 2107 | Profile Blog # |
| Basically if any other western leagues want to have Kespa players, they have to go through Sundance as a middleman. Kind of a strange arrangement, I wonder if MLG would collect some sort of fee from the western tournament for such an agreement? |
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| CrazyBirdman Germany. May 12 2012 07:05. Posts 1361 | Profile # |
| Mhh, all this talk about exclusivity does not really worry me for other tournaments but more for the KeSPA-run ones. With so much high caliber competition with massive prizepools they will probably have a hard time getting new talent in if their players are restricted in their tournament opportunities. In the current state of SC2 professional competition KeSPAs approach seems to me a bit anachronistic. Last edit: 2012-05-12 07:06:47 |
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| black_ICE United States. May 12 2012 07:09. Posts 56 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:03 Doodsmack wrote:
Basically if any other western leagues want to have Kespa players, they have to go through Sundance as a middleman. Kind of a strange arrangement, I wonder if MLG would collect some sort of fee from the western tournament for such an agreement?
$trange arrangement indeed.Last edit: 2012-05-12 07:13:18 |
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| Seekzor Sweden. May 12 2012 07:10. Posts 43 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 06:58 JackDT wrote:
So what did Sundance say in response to the exclusivity deal? I heard the end of it, he just seemed to be saying it's just business, this is how business works. Was there more before that?
He talked about being the gatekeeper of SC2 basically.
He said he could see himself talking to other tournaments about having kespa players or not. |
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| Rorschach United States. May 12 2012 07:22. Posts 604 | Profile # |
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!Last edit: 2012-05-12 07:23:12 |
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| hifriend Sweden. May 12 2012 07:26. Posts 5965 | Profile Blog # |
| What a terrible idea. I guess it's time to capitalize but this is the sort of thing that kills off a growing movement/scene in it's early stages. Immediately kespa starts with the monopoly bullshit again and MLG don't hesitate to jump on? Sad. :/ Won't be watching their events again. |
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| Dosey United States. May 12 2012 07:27. Posts 3983 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
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| Instigata United States. May 12 2012 07:31. Posts 517 | Profile # |
| Blizzard did a good job with Kespa. Kespa had an iron grip on the BW scene in Korea but Blizzard saw that and stopped it before SC2 could be the next victim of Kespa. Now after long negotiations with Kespa, Blizzard has given them an iron grip globally over SC2. |
| | SC2 was doomed from the start. |
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| Sub40APM May 12 2012 07:31. Posts 2082 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:10 Seekzor wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 06:58 JackDT wrote:
So what did Sundance say in response to the exclusivity deal? I heard the end of it, he just seemed to be saying it's just business, this is how business works. Was there more before that?
He talked about being the gatekeeper of SC2 basically. He said he could see himself talking to other tournaments about having kespa players or not.
let me predict ragemode interpretation of this "See. Simple. Sundance takes money from VCs, hands whatever remains of the pile that wasnt wasted on large prize pools for poorly followed games/sweet new york city offices and hands it over to KESPA to buy exclusive rights. Then turns around to the other tournaments and says pay me 2x what I paid for these rights or starve while Kespa teams buy up all the really good SC2 players with their much larger budgets and sponsorships. Sundance becomes the king of e-sports in the West" |
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| Rorschach United States. May 12 2012 07:33. Posts 604 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
Good point but I don't think the Koreans will stop coming to MLGs anytime soon.
Although it would send a powerful message to keep things open as if MLG doesn't have the Koreans (read GSL/GOM) they would have no SC2 at least anything that anyone would tune in to.....
This is the last thing we need is a war between MLG/Kespa and GSL/IPL.
Competition for the market is great as that improves the product but this asshat move to keep Kespa players exclusive is horrible for the scene and I will not support it.....
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| jmbthirteen United States. May 12 2012 07:38. Posts 9623 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs. |
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| Rorschach United States. May 12 2012 07:39. Posts 604 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:31 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:10 Seekzor wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:58 JackDT wrote:
So what did Sundance say in response to the exclusivity deal? I heard the end of it, he just seemed to be saying it's just business, this is how business works. Was there more before that?
He talked about being the gatekeeper of SC2 basically. He said he could see himself talking to other tournaments about having kespa players or not.
let me predict ragemode interpretation of this "See. Simple. Sundance takes money from VCs, hands whatever remains of the pile that wasnt wasted on large prize pools for poorly followed games/sweet new york city offices and hands it over to KESPA to buy exclusive rights. Then turns around to the other tournaments and says pay me 2x what I paid for these rights or starve while Kespa teams buy up all the really good SC2 players with their much larger budgets and sponsorships. Sundance becomes the king of e-sports in the West"
Their PPV model was simply something foreshadowing what is to come.
Before we know it ALL high level events will be nickel and diming us.
Talk about cornering the market and then squeezing the consumer for every last drop.
Will be so pissed if Kespa buys up the current SC2 teams, I just can't picture IM, Slayers, MVP all being bought out....
GOM has worked so hard to make SC2 what its become the last few years and has created a different caliber of play.
Nothing more cool than having current SC2 Korean pros going to IPL, DH, etc....
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| Dosey United States. May 12 2012 07:41. Posts 3983 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG. |
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| Ammanas Slovakia. May 12 2012 07:43. Posts 722 | Profile # |
This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.Last edit: 2012-05-12 07:48:51 |
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| elsezilla Netherlands. May 12 2012 07:44. Posts 30 | Profile # |
On May 11 2012 23:50 algue wrote:
Nothing amazing , this just means that that MLG will stay the same : TOP 10 full korean.
I agree, I don't care how many koreans they fly in to play in their PPV-arenas, The viewing pleasure of a DreamHack or HSC-event is still better.Last edit: 2012-05-12 07:45:29 |
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| rotegirte Germany. May 12 2012 07:47. Posts 1831 | Profile # |
| It's a tad early to lock out competitors, but we'll have to wait and see I guess |
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| Rorschach United States. May 12 2012 07:48. Posts 604 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague?
It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table.
If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market....
The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool.
Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups.
Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing.
Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team.
I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling. |
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| Rorschach United States. May 12 2012 07:55. Posts 604 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote:This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid. MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture.
The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
It would be an exclusive arrangement between MLG/Kespa and the new Proleagues players.
On the the other hand Gom has allowed the teams to do operate however they want when it comes to attending foreign tournaments.
The only thing keeping Korean teams from participating would be the individual teams financial situation in which case many organizations have offered to sponsor korean attendants because it draws a crowd.
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| | En Taro Adun, Executor! | |
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| Ammanas Slovakia. May 12 2012 07:59. Posts 722 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:48 Rorschach wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague?
But they are not intending to do something like that, this thread is getting ridiculous. Sundance said numerous times today, that they are working with Dreamhack and will be working with more foreign organizers. Part of this arrangment is also an exchange program with Kespa, so I guess good foreigners will be able to play in Kespa events, also they will be able to stay in Kespa prohouses.
Also Kespa said they will be working with GOM, GOM has said Kespa progamers are welcome to tryout GSL whenever they feel ready. Yeah, Proleague and GSTL will probably stay the same for now, but who knows what happens in a year or two? OGN already declared, they want to do first SC2 OSL open to anyone, be it GOM, foreigners, amateurs, or Kespa. What of that is saying "exclusive for MLG/Kespa" only? |
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| KrazyTrumpet United States. May 12 2012 07:59. Posts 889 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 07:55 Rorschach wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote:This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote:
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue)....
When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way.
Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized? Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid. MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least. Last edit: 2012-05-12 08:00:22 |
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