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 0neder United States. May 15 2012 17:17. Posts 3732 | Profile # |
On May 15 2012 15:56 v3chr0 wrote:
David Kim talks about the Terran's versatility and diversity and how they need to use it play to their benefit, specifically early - mid, THATS what he is talking about - Terran needs to USE what they HAVE.
People are blowing this out of proportion, it's a swing in the meta game, did everyone forget how long Terran was on top, and how much everyone struggled, despite the T nerfs and P and Z buffs? Figure some new strats out, try something new, thats what this game is about.
Sorry to say, but this also happened with the EMP and Snipe nerf. Protoss and Zerg cried balance, everyone went buck wild, and Terran got nerfed for it, and I hardly think it was necessary. It plays a factor in this obv. but EMP and Snipe are still very effective vs. Toss, so it's not of too much importance here IMO.
You're missing the point.
The problem isn't balance, even though that's what people whine about.
The problem is strategic variety/option for spectating excitement and player satisfaction.
The snipe nerf nerfed strategic options. It became an anit-caster spell only. QXC expained why this was bad.
The flexibility of Terran bio limits strategic options for Terrans because they have no incentive to do anything else in any other matchup. Why tech to tier 2 or 3 when tier 1 is the best?
David Kim doesn't want to get fired. He's not so worried about game design. He's not a designer, so he's not equipped to deal with that stuff anyway. He's just making sure he doesn't get lynched by the angry nerds over balance.
Browder and Kim need to step back and actually revisit Terran versatility. You could make mech stronger if you eliminated the instantaneous adaption afforded by tech labs/reactors. Give the buildings back their individual add-ons. This is more exciting because Terrans can actually be caught off guard and pay the price for it.
Another interesting experiment would be to make the OC an add-on again. Integrating it with the town hall building is boring, because you can try to snipe their econ/detection without killing a huge building. If it were separate, it would be more interesting if the OC were snipable, and probably balance mules a bit too.
Don't you see? We are holding Blizzard to their own standard of excitement and strategic options, the very goals they cited in designing the new Starcraft and that they are missing the mark on.
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| Deimos0 Poland. May 15 2012 20:39. Posts 276 | Profile Blog # |
+ Show Spoiler +You're missing the point.
The problem isn't balance, even though that's what people whine about.
The problem is strategic variety/option for spectating excitement and player satisfaction.
The snipe nerf nerfed strategic options. It became an anit-caster spell only. QXC expained why this was bad.
The flexibility of Terran bio limits strategic options for Terrans because they have no incentive to do anything else in any other matchup. Why tech to tier 2 or 3 when tier 1 is the best?
David Kim doesn't want to get fired. He's not so worried about game design. He's not a designer, so he's not equipped to deal with that stuff anyway. He's just making sure he doesn't get lynched by the angry nerds over balance.
Browder and Kim need to step back and actually revisit Terran versatility. You could make mech stronger if you eliminated the instantaneous adaption afforded by tech labs/reactors. Give the buildings back their individual add-ons. This is more exciting because Terrans can actually be caught off guard and pay the price for it.
Another interesting experiment would be to make the OC an add-on again. Integrating it with the town hall building is boring, because you can try to snipe their econ/detection without killing a huge building. If it were separate, it would be more interesting if the OC were snipable, and probably balance mules a bit too.
Don't you see? We are holding Blizzard to their own standard of excitement and strategic options, the very goals they cited in designing the new Starcraft and that they are missing the mark on.
That's interesting idea - I wonder how would it work in actual play in all matchups |
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| ritzia1 Canada. May 15 2012 21:21. Posts 90 | Profile # |
On May 15 2012 17:17 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 15:56 v3chr0 wrote:
David Kim talks about the Terran's versatility and diversity and how they need to use it play to their benefit, specifically early - mid, THATS what he is talking about - Terran needs to USE what they HAVE.
People are blowing this out of proportion, it's a swing in the meta game, did everyone forget how long Terran was on top, and how much everyone struggled, despite the T nerfs and P and Z buffs? Figure some new strats out, try something new, thats what this game is about.
Sorry to say, but this also happened with the EMP and Snipe nerf. Protoss and Zerg cried balance, everyone went buck wild, and Terran got nerfed for it, and I hardly think it was necessary. It plays a factor in this obv. but EMP and Snipe are still very effective vs. Toss, so it's not of too much importance here IMO.
You're missing the point. The problem isn't balance, even though that's what people whine about. The problem is strategic variety/option for spectating excitement and player satisfaction. The snipe nerf nerfed strategic options. It became an anit-caster spell only. QXC expained why this was bad. The flexibility of Terran bio limits strategic options for Terrans because they have no incentive to do anything else in any other matchup. Why tech to tier 2 or 3 when tier 1 is the best? David Kim doesn't want to get fired. He's not so worried about game design. He's not a designer, so he's not equipped to deal with that stuff anyway. He's just making sure he doesn't get lynched by the angry nerds over balance. Browder and Kim need to step back and actually revisit Terran versatility. You could make mech stronger if you eliminated the instantaneous adaption afforded by tech labs/reactors. Give the buildings back their individual add-ons. This is more exciting because Terrans can actually be caught off guard and pay the price for it. Another interesting experiment would be to make the OC an add-on again. Integrating it with the town hall building is boring, because you can try to snipe their econ/detection without killing a huge building. If it were separate, it would be more interesting if the OC were snipable, and probably balance mules a bit too. Don't you see? We are holding Blizzard to their own standard of excitement and strategic options, the very goals they cited in designing the new Starcraft and that they are missing the mark on.
They should revert the snipe nerf, so we can see snipes on Zealots again and just adjust snipe to do less damage to Massive units. I miss seeing Thorzaine EMPing an entire army while sniping zealots.
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| FabledIntegral United States. May 16 2012 05:03. Posts 8357 | Profile Blog # |
On May 15 2012 21:21 ritzia1 wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 17:17 0neder wrote:
On May 15 2012 15:56 v3chr0 wrote:
David Kim talks about the Terran's versatility and diversity and how they need to use it play to their benefit, specifically early - mid, THATS what he is talking about - Terran needs to USE what they HAVE.
People are blowing this out of proportion, it's a swing in the meta game, did everyone forget how long Terran was on top, and how much everyone struggled, despite the T nerfs and P and Z buffs? Figure some new strats out, try something new, thats what this game is about.
Sorry to say, but this also happened with the EMP and Snipe nerf. Protoss and Zerg cried balance, everyone went buck wild, and Terran got nerfed for it, and I hardly think it was necessary. It plays a factor in this obv. but EMP and Snipe are still very effective vs. Toss, so it's not of too much importance here IMO.
You're missing the point. The problem isn't balance, even though that's what people whine about. The problem is strategic variety/option for spectating excitement and player satisfaction. The snipe nerf nerfed strategic options. It became an anit-caster spell only. QXC expained why this was bad. The flexibility of Terran bio limits strategic options for Terrans because they have no incentive to do anything else in any other matchup. Why tech to tier 2 or 3 when tier 1 is the best? David Kim doesn't want to get fired. He's not so worried about game design. He's not a designer, so he's not equipped to deal with that stuff anyway. He's just making sure he doesn't get lynched by the angry nerds over balance. Browder and Kim need to step back and actually revisit Terran versatility. You could make mech stronger if you eliminated the instantaneous adaption afforded by tech labs/reactors. Give the buildings back their individual add-ons. This is more exciting because Terrans can actually be caught off guard and pay the price for it. Another interesting experiment would be to make the OC an add-on again. Integrating it with the town hall building is boring, because you can try to snipe their econ/detection without killing a huge building. If it were separate, it would be more interesting if the OC were snipable, and probably balance mules a bit too. Don't you see? We are holding Blizzard to their own standard of excitement and strategic options, the very goals they cited in designing the new Starcraft and that they are missing the mark on.
They should revert the snipe nerf, so we can see snipes on Zealots again and just adjust snipe to do less damage to Massive units. I miss seeing Thorzaine EMPing an entire army while sniping zealots.
They won't adjust to do less vs Massive. They should, but they won't. They don't like the idea of negative damage modifiers, for whatever reason. |
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| ProxyKnoxy United Kingdom. May 16 2012 05:19. Posts 2543 | Profile # |
A bit off-topic, but I wish Blizzard didn't nerf blue flame hellions... Ever since they've been nerfed TvT has just gone back to marine tank - basically square one. Pre-nerf TvT was actually becoming amazing and evolving pretty quickly- many more mech games and interesting decisions. I don't really understand their reasoning behind it anyway.
Anyway. I'm a Protoss player (but I don't speak for other protoss players, obviously) and I really want something to be done to just the design of the race in general. Warpgates are actually op vs terran in my opinion, especially in a 200/200 scenario.
Also the way bases and harvesters work should be changed - there should actually be an economical advantage to having 5 mining bases over 3 (when you have equal worker numbers).
Something needs to be done to PvT late game. At the moment unless the terran player is really good and the protoss messes up it is very unlikely that you will lose after 20 minutes, even with an economical disadvantage. If I had my own way I would just remove the collossus and replace it/or make it more difficult to micro. It's just a boring unit in general. Alternatively, the radius of storm could be increased or they could revert the ghost changes - before the ghost changes terrans used to win a lot in late game. Perhaps they could buff tanks though, but I guess that would mess up the other match ups too much.
Very unlikely these will happen, but yeah!
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| | "Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot" |  |
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| whetherby United States. May 23 2012 08:36. Posts 52 | Profile # |
| Couldn't a team like IM just join this league and own everyone since SC2 is the Ace match? They would win 2 - 1 (the 1 loss in BW ofcourse. |
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| 3Form United Kingdom. May 23 2012 11:23. Posts 338 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 08:36 whetherby wrote:
Couldn't a team like IM just join this league and own everyone since SC2 is the Ace match? They would win 2 - 1 (the 1 loss in BW ofcourse.
Only KeSPA teams can play in KeSPA leagues  |
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| Berceno Spain. May 23 2012 21:50. Posts 390 | Profile # |
On May 16 2012 05:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
A bit off-topic, but I wish Blizzard didn't nerf blue flame hellions... Ever since they've been nerfed TvT has just gone back to marine tank - basically square one. Pre-nerf TvT was actually becoming amazing and evolving pretty quickly- many more mech games and interesting decisions. I don't really understand their reasoning behind it anyway.
Anyway. I'm a Protoss player (but I don't speak for other protoss players, obviously) and I really want something to be done to just the design of the race in general. Warpgates are actually op vs terran in my opinion, especially in a 200/200 scenario.
Also the way bases and harvesters work should be changed - there should actually be an economical advantage to having 5 mining bases over 3 (when you have equal worker numbers).
Something needs to be done to PvT late game. At the moment unless the terran player is really good and the protoss messes up it is very unlikely that you will lose after 20 minutes, even with an economical disadvantage. If I had my own way I would just remove the collossus and replace it/or make it more difficult to micro. It's just a boring unit in general. Alternatively, the radius of storm could be increased or they could revert the ghost changes - before the ghost changes terrans used to win a lot in late game. Perhaps they could buff tanks though, but I guess that would mess up the other match ups too much.
Very unlikely these will happen, but yeah!
You aren't protoss |
| | protoss living in da ghetto |  |
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| sekritzzz May 23 2012 22:24. Posts 1256 | Profile # |
On May 16 2012 05:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
A bit off-topic, but I wish Blizzard didn't nerf blue flame hellions... Ever since they've been nerfed TvT has just gone back to marine tank - basically square one. Pre-nerf TvT was actually becoming amazing and evolving pretty quickly- many more mech games and interesting decisions. I don't really understand their reasoning behind it anyway.
Anyway. I'm a Protoss player (but I don't speak for other protoss players, obviously) and I really want something to be done to just the design of the race in general. Warpgates are actually op vs terran in my opinion, especially in a 200/200 scenario.
Also the way bases and harvesters work should be changed - there should actually be an economical advantage to having 5 mining bases over 3 (when you have equal worker numbers).
Something needs to be done to PvT late game. At the moment unless the terran player is really good and the protoss messes up it is very unlikely that you will lose after 20 minutes, even with an economical disadvantage. If I had my own way I would just remove the collossus and replace it/or make it more difficult to micro. It's just a boring unit in general. Alternatively, the radius of storm could be increased or they could revert the ghost changes - before the ghost changes terrans used to win a lot in late game. Perhaps they could buff tanks though, but I guess that would mess up the other match ups too much.
Very unlikely these will happen, but yeah!
you missed out like... 3 units from the terran. maybe you should add them to your buff list so we can have a completely "balanced" sc2 |
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| superbarnie United States. May 25 2012 01:40. Posts 280 | Profile # |
| Can't the kespa team recruit the members from the disbanded oGs team? They can play the sc2 matches. |
| | Zerg OP | CreansRNub | k-Poop | Zerg OP | Sea lions | \\m// |
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| amazingxkcd United States. May 25 2012 01:58. Posts 2677 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 01:40 superbarnie wrote:
Can't the kespa team recruit the members from the disbanded oGs team? They can play the sc2 matches.
They could, but the players would need a progaming liscense which can either be won through Courage or given. The SC2 players would have to play BW as well. |
| | "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle | | Flash: He smiles because he loves the game. So much, that he enjoys every lesson from it. |  |
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| Kilby Finland. May 25 2012 02:05. Posts 1068 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 01:58 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 01:40 superbarnie wrote:
Can't the kespa team recruit the members from the disbanded oGs team? They can play the sc2 matches.
They could, but the players would need a progaming liscense which can either be won through Courage or given. The SC2 players would have to play BW as well.
Well, I can't say I know much about the contractual requirements but if it is really like you say and the licence can just be given, then I would imagine any Kespa team could be interested in giving that licence to a SC2 pro simply to get a SC2 pro in their team, which might be pretty beneficial these days. |
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| roymarthyup May 25 2012 04:46. Posts 1442 | Profile # |
I think the snipe nerf would be fixed if snipe was made with optional autocast and automatically casted itself on units with over 60 health max and it was coded to not overkill
This would almost make it overpowered and stronger than the previous snipe. Think about it ghosts with 200 energy would instantly unload 200 damage, where as before how many snipes could you really micro off with your mass ghosts lategame when they all had 200 energy, maybe 4 snipes PER ghost? that was still 200 damage
only different is now all the ghosts do it automatically without you needing to micro, so you can a-move your ghosts and they auto snipe pwn everything while you micro everything else
So really, in blizzards mind the snipe nerf was done because they thought a 2food unit instantly unloading 400 damage was overpowered, and they thought 200 damage was acceptable for a 2food unit. But the problem that created with snipe is it is now almost a waste of APM to cast snipe because 1click for 25 damage isnt even worth itLast edit: 2012-05-25 04:50:08 |
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| fraktoasters United States. May 25 2012 04:56. Posts 617 | Profile # |
On May 16 2012 05:03 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 21:21 ritzia1 wrote:
On May 15 2012 17:17 0neder wrote:
On May 15 2012 15:56 v3chr0 wrote:
David Kim talks about the Terran's versatility and diversity and how they need to use it play to their benefit, specifically early - mid, THATS what he is talking about - Terran needs to USE what they HAVE.
People are blowing this out of proportion, it's a swing in the meta game, did everyone forget how long Terran was on top, and how much everyone struggled, despite the T nerfs and P and Z buffs? Figure some new strats out, try something new, thats what this game is about.
Sorry to say, but this also happened with the EMP and Snipe nerf. Protoss and Zerg cried balance, everyone went buck wild, and Terran got nerfed for it, and I hardly think it was necessary. It plays a factor in this obv. but EMP and Snipe are still very effective vs. Toss, so it's not of too much importance here IMO.
You're missing the point. The problem isn't balance, even though that's what people whine about. The problem is strategic variety/option for spectating excitement and player satisfaction. The snipe nerf nerfed strategic options. It became an anit-caster spell only. QXC expained why this was bad. The flexibility of Terran bio limits strategic options for Terrans because they have no incentive to do anything else in any other matchup. Why tech to tier 2 or 3 when tier 1 is the best? David Kim doesn't want to get fired. He's not so worried about game design. He's not a designer, so he's not equipped to deal with that stuff anyway. He's just making sure he doesn't get lynched by the angry nerds over balance. Browder and Kim need to step back and actually revisit Terran versatility. You could make mech stronger if you eliminated the instantaneous adaption afforded by tech labs/reactors. Give the buildings back their individual add-ons. This is more exciting because Terrans can actually be caught off guard and pay the price for it. Another interesting experiment would be to make the OC an add-on again. Integrating it with the town hall building is boring, because you can try to snipe their econ/detection without killing a huge building. If it were separate, it would be more interesting if the OC were snipable, and probably balance mules a bit too. Don't you see? We are holding Blizzard to their own standard of excitement and strategic options, the very goals they cited in designing the new Starcraft and that they are missing the mark on.
They should revert the snipe nerf, so we can see snipes on Zealots again and just adjust snipe to do less damage to Massive units. I miss seeing Thorzaine EMPing an entire army while sniping zealots.
They won't adjust to do less vs Massive. They should, but they won't. They don't like the idea of negative damage modifiers, for whatever reason.
They could make it do extra to non massives. But yeah, we shouldn't expect them to do the right thing. |
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| gfx Sweden. June 19 2012 18:44. Posts 3 | Profile # |
On May 12 2012 02:23 WarrickHunt wrote:
Swap to zerg, for the love of god please
lol, zerg suck dick
User was warned for this postLast edit: 2012-06-19 21:48:00 |
| | starcraft 2 master league player |
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| KonohaFlash Canada. June 19 2012 18:54. Posts 1590 | Profile # |
On June 19 2012 18:44 gfx wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 02:23 WarrickHunt wrote:
Swap to zerg, for the love of god please
lol, zerg suck dick
Is this really your first post? just wow. |
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