| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 16:25. Posts 139 | Profile # |
Who am I ?
+ Show Spoiler +
Introduction to the build
+ Show Spoiler +After playing countless zerg players , playing the so called stephano style (maxing really fast with roach ling) came to the conclusion that maybe a maxed zerg with roach and ling might not be such a bad thing ! So i combined many of my builds to a new really strong timing build , wich requires a lot of map awareness and mindgames!.
Why it works?
+ Show Spoiler +This build is made to counter zergs that go fast 3rd base and will max roach ling because they dont scout a fast 3rd base from the protoss player (Yes its a 2 base timing push) . As soon as the zerg realises that you dont intend to take a 3rd base he will try to flood you and thats where it gets nasty ! He cant flood you because you will not move from your base untill you have 3-2 upgrades and 160-170 pop army at 14.30 mins !
This build also applies pressure and gives scouting information early on , because it involves prism harash that will make the zerg player a bit more afraid of an all in.
Mindgames
+ Show Spoiler +As i said above this build contains a lot of mind games
The best part of it is the mixture of collosus in your army combosition!
Collosus are so good against everything apart corruptors , so basecally if he scouts your collosus he cant know how many you are going to make!
You will try to deny all scout attempts from the zerg player who will be in alert and will desperatly try to get some information because he doesnt know what you are doing , try to hide the collosus tech/units if he spots the bay early make 1 rest immortals , he will make 8-12 corruptors , if he doesnt scout it then make 2-3 and rest immortals.Its really importand that your robo units mix in your deathball are counter to his main army ball.
The Build
+ Show Spoiler +Any standart FFE is fine but i prefer this one.
9 pylon
18 nexus
18 forge ( 3 cb for +1 attack)
18 gateway
18 pylon
18 cannon
19 1st gas
19 2cond gas
24 core (3 cb)
36 robo (prism,obs,immortal)
3rd gas
38 +2 gates
42 4th gas
twlight council 2cond forge (blink)
robo bay
+3 gateways
+3 gateways
+1 gateway
Push at 14.30 with 3-2 upgrades and 165-170 pop army.
Tips so the build works better
+ Show Spoiler +- Make 2 early sentries and keep them untill the push so they can have 4 forcefields each
- Use prism to harash , take watch towers , and scout the zerg players , try not to lose your zealots !
-dont make more than 56 probes
- Try to deny all scouting from the zerg player dont let him know what you are doing
- Try to get a good position in the big fight your army is supperior to his and with a good engagement you will probably lose 20 pop max.
Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
I will try to update this build with more replays and more tricks/moves while the time goes , meanwhile XD
https://twitter.com/#!/EmpireMista
http://www.facebook.com/EmpireMista
http://www.twitch.tv/gr8themista
http://www.team-empire.org/?theme=7
Any feedback would be awesome!
Last edit: 2012-05-15 05:09:32 |
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| Complete United States. May 14 2012 16:33. Posts 815 | Profile # |
10 gates, robo, 2 forge+TC/robo bay for a 2 base strat? Seems excessive.
Only 2 sentries?
I guess I need to watch the replays. But I don't really see what's stopping him from waiting until you leave your base, hitting you with maxed roach/ling, killing half your army, and then remaxing while you're moving accross the map to clean you up easily. Zerg will have like 3 minutes of larva injects/money savings from a roach spam strat.
I could see it working if he tried to roach spam in your natural, but I'm really not sure why he would if he see's you haven't taken a 3rd.
I don't like the idea of colossus for 2 base allins against high eco zerg builds either. Anything that gives zerg the ability to trade semi-cost effectively iin the mid-game is a huge win for them, especially if it's a high gas/tech unit like collo. This is also basically all-in if you haven't taken a 3rd by the 15 minute mark, stressing even higher the need for cost efficiency.Last edit: 2012-05-14 16:39:49 |
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| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 16:36. Posts 139 | Profile # |
You wont use robo after you leave your base you will relly replenishing your army purely from your gates with zealot/stalkers.
With good control he cant even kill 1/3 of your army off creep. |
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| DaRandomGuy May 14 2012 16:38. Posts 19 | Profile # |
| show match vs stephano please! =] b07! Last edit: 2012-05-14 16:40:06 |
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| Xequecal United States. May 14 2012 16:42. Posts 380 | Profile # |
I don't get how you ever beat a muta transition that he almost certainly will do when he sees no allin coming. He can easily base trade you for the free win with mutas.
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| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 16:44. Posts 139 | Profile # |
Its really hard for a zerg to go mutalisk when he doesnt see a 3rd base from protoss.
And you title says Anti stephano style , but even if he goes mutalisk you will scout it with your prism and obs. |
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| C[h]ili Germany. May 14 2012 16:56. Posts 84 | Profile # |
Thank you for the well written guide, TheMista. I find pointing towards 2 base timings interesting at a time where many Protoss have tried to get a quick third. I just would like two ask two questions.
How are you supposed to deny all scouting given how fast overseers are?
How does this style perform against alternative Z strategies? You seem to take it as granted that Z is playing for a big bust at 12 min, which does not need to be the case at all. Z could also opt for putting pressure on your third with his midgame army, while quickly teching and upgrading. While your army is certainly superior to pure roach linge, at the time of your push Z can easily have infestor, corruptor, (hydras), while at the same time being not terribly far away from hive tech. In fact, when P is staying on two bases for too long, it seems straightforward to go for a higher tech army, while at the same time having the clear macro lead.
Last edit: 2012-05-14 16:57:19 |
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| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 17:02. Posts 139 | Profile # |
Put your stalkers in good spots to deny scouting.
It will take sometime for the zerg to realise what is going on your army will win everything except mutalisk (purely because of tradebase) and maybe baneling drops.
Prism will make sure to scout the zerg combosition and to keep zerg under pressure. |
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| EtherealDeath United States. May 14 2012 17:08. Posts 8158 | Profile Blog # | |
| | SC2: Kasu.767 ////////// Dota 2: 1a2a3a | |
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| C[h]ili Germany. May 14 2012 17:10. Posts 84 | Profile # |
| I do not think you have given my argument enough considerations. What you propose is a two base timing push that exploits Z massing quickly, but the claim that it beats any army composition of Z at that time seems exaggerated. I mean, it is not like we haven't had two base deathball styles before, so it is hard to see what should be different this time. |
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| Jasper- Canada. May 14 2012 17:15. Posts 181 | Profile Blog # |
So you're counting on the zerg not pincering with overlords to scout? Looks beyond gimicky =\ no way in hell you should need the 10 gates unless you're banking ofc which you shouldn't be since you won't be maxxing out.
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| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 17:17. Posts 139 | Profile # |
| with proper building (tech placement) you can prevent scouting and even if he does scout your bay you can make 1 collosus only , infestors are good yes but he cant know when you are going to attack so he needs to make units and your army is far stronger than his.he wont have time to get broodlords out . |
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| Zerg.Zilla Hungary. May 14 2012 17:18. Posts 2253 | Profile # |
On May 14 2012 16:38 DaRandomGuy wrote:
show match vs stephano please! =] b07!
This.I would love to see that in action against Stephano. |
| | (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~ |
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| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 17:19. Posts 139 | Profile # |
Since you have a lot of blink stalkers you wont be able to always make units when you have the warp ready so you need some extra gates to get the extra units ,
Your tech wont be that early to be scouted by overlords , and as soon as you get your +2 gates and warp in your prism lots you can make 4 stalkers and deny ovs and then throw bay twlight second forge. |
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| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 17:21. Posts 139 | Profile # | |
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| Zerg.Zilla Hungary. May 14 2012 17:34. Posts 2253 | Profile # |
Ok then...after work im gona study the hell out of it....Gratz for beating Stephano....you got yourself a new fan here good sir. |
| | (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~ |
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| TigerKarl May 14 2012 17:38. Posts 1482 | Profile # |
| Sounds like a solid strategy, good description. Will try it out, next time i roll a PvZ |
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| Zheryn Sweden. May 14 2012 17:44. Posts 902 | Profile # |
On May 14 2012 16:56 C[h]ili wrote:
You seem to take it as granted that Z is playing for a big bust at 12 min, which does not need to be the case at all.
It's funny when people think Stephano style is "a huge bust". No zerg will try to attack if the protoss doesn't take a third, unless he has 0 units. |
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| Empire.Mista Greece. May 14 2012 17:52. Posts 139 | Profile # |
| Stephano style is flooding his opponent with roach ling. |
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| syriuszonito Poland. May 14 2012 17:52. Posts 291 | Profile # |
Looks like a rly late 2 base all in that is going to die vs muta play
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