[H] Still me. Still 1 base protoss problems.

http://drop.sc/179621

I tried switching my build from 1 rax cc over to 2 rax reac first to make holding these 1 base protoss easier but I still find it impossible.

Can anyone point out where I went wrong? I did my best to micro and I don't think I messed up anything... I even surrounded his zealots and held position but I couldn't make the hold work. It lagged nearer the end and I lost a couple of marauders and a marine at one point overall but I think that I was already falling behind at this point.

P.S: I pushed down my ramp when I felt like I had a strong position because I forgot I had the scv scouting his expansion, so I feared he had expanded since his push had weakened and I didnt want to get behind in eco so I had to take my own base. It's irrelevant that I should have known he didnt expand, as a good protoss would have killed my scouting scv anyway.

Thanks a lot for reading and I hope one of you can help?

P.P.S: My opponent was high dia with toss on EU server...depressing isn't it?

Last edit: 2012-05-15 04:11:05

Tears soaks each hand the dealer's dealt. But time taught me how to see every second as heaven even when they're perfectly disguised as hell.

phiinix United States. May 15 2012 04:38. Posts 1124

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Not depressing at all considering he was bad enough to give you a free scout opportunity with your scv and you didn't take it.

It's obviously a big blunder to not scout your back nat for a pylon, but the main reasons you lost was because of lack of scouting and poor reaction time.

Lets be serious for a second. You feel like it's irrelevant that you should have he didn't expand because a good protoss would have killed your scouting scv, but that doesn't mean that you can't scout for no expansion. for THIS game in particular, you should have scouted no expand at 5:00 (given he went 1 gas gate) and should have double bunkered by 5:30. If your scouting scv was killed before 5:00 you should have sent a second scout. If you can't scout and need to verify what he's doing, use a scan or gamble; either are better than playing blind. For the record, GM terrans and pros alike can scout for toss expands at the 5:00 easy, you shouldn't count your scv dead if your opponent was "better". Also, I'd prefer to have the scv at his third, not in the back of the nat, it makes it harder to snipe from a stalker.

I've held 4 gates with 0 scouting and a pylon in the back (same map) and the key is reaction. You scouted the units, did some fighting, but you should have instant double/triple bunkered in your main. Boil the game down to basics: he has 4 gates, at the minimum 3 with 0 scouting, you have 2 rax, hence you need bunkers if you're going to survive.

Last edit: 2012-05-15 04:39:57

birdseed May 15 2012 04:44. Posts 19

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With a bunker (or a full wall) you would of been fine. You also probably would of been fine if you didnt stop producing units / scvs during the attack and just came up your ramp at set up a defenesive position. You saw super high chrono on his nexus and one gas - that should send off bells that a 4gate is coming. If you hide an scv on the map you can almost always scout the lack of expo - pros do it all the time, his 1-2 stalker are almost certainly on the way to your base and even if he has them in position to deny scouting you can almost always get into the natural.

fyi: for a better 4gate you need bunkers, his had some execution problems.

Last edit: 2012-05-15 04:45:29

zezamer Finland. May 15 2012 04:46. Posts 1805

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His gateway finished way before your barracks so that's a tell that he's doing something fishy.
So you should have stayed in his base longer to see what's up and send a another scv to his expo so you can keep the scv in main alive as long as possible.

You lost because you continuously pushed down the ramp vs 1 basing opponent when you could have camped in your base and waited for your army to become big enough / bio upgrades finish. Walling off with depo or bunker would have been kinda good.

Last edit: 2012-05-15 04:49:43

rufflesQueso May 15 2012 05:06. Posts 100

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That was some BM O_o.

3:14
Your marine pops out, and you just send it to sit in front of your natural. If you had sent it to scout around your natural, you would have seen his probe (the one that ended up building a proxy pylon right outside your ramp).

3:35
Most of your buildings are near your ramp (intended for a wall), but you build your second depot near CC. That's okay because you can wall later, but you never end up doing so.

4:30 - 5:00
Scouting SCV sees no expansion at toss natural, but decides to chill there the entire game. He could have scouted the 4 gate for you because Protoss didn't build a single unit before warp gates.

Funny thing that happened in this game. Before you leave the game, you scan his natural. Guess who's still chilling at Protoss nat? Scouting SCV.

During entire engagement
The minute you see his rush:

Build a bunker (1 is ok, 2 is pretty safe) above the ramp.
Complete your wall.
Instead of suiciding your units down the ramp, wait for stim

so basically...
Your marine could have killed his probe that built the proxy pylon.
You could have walled your ramp so he didn't have such an easy time stomping you. Also bunkers.
Scouting SCVs are supposed to scout. Be diligent.
During a rush, stay calm and just focus on your priorities (bunkers, etc.. different each game).

also... usually when you say gg wp, you are supposed to leave the game... but you didn't. special tactics? lulz

Last edit: 2012-05-15 05:11:20

EneMecH United Kingdom. May 15 2012 05:12. Posts 218

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I didnt think I needed bunkers. I hate getting them because of how often I see toss do an all in and expand eventually and win by dragging it to a late game where they can get lucky and win easily.

Thanks for your help guys.

Tears soaks each hand the dealer's dealt. But time taught me how to see every second as heaven even when they're perfectly disguised as hell.

CookieMonsta02 United States. May 15 2012 05:18. Posts 37

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as mentioned previously, you simply need to scout better.

Scenarios:
- had you scouted your nat - you find the probe and proxy pylon = dead 4 gate.
- had you sent scouting probe into the main - you see the 4 gate coming, thus giving you a heads up and time to build defensive bunkers.
- had you stayed in his base scouting, you woulda noticed chrono'ed warp tech and coulda been rdy for 4 gate.

CookieMonsta02 United States. May 15 2012 05:27. Posts 37

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On May 15 2012 05:12 EneMecH wrote:
I didnt think I needed bunkers. I hate getting them because of how often I see toss do an all in and expand eventually and win by dragging it to a late game where they can get lucky and win easily.

Thanks for your help guys.

How do they drag it late game and get lucky? If a P all-ins you and you hold, it should be gg. You need to push out after a failed all-in for the win.

Also, you can always salvage bunkers for a refund so whats your beef with them? Theres really no reason not to use them, at least for early game play.

thurst0n United States. May 15 2012 06:27. Posts 573

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On May 15 2012 05:27 CookieMonsta02 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'd go a step further, they are down right required like in this game. It's kind of like toss with forcefields, they are just required if you want to survive at certain points of the game.

Everyone already hit the big things from the replay, but it's just wrong to think that you're better than bunkers. Terran has bunkers for a reason, without bunkers the game wouldn't be balanced.

P.S. I'm nub. If you'd like you can follow me @xthurst but its not worth it ill be honest

EneMecH United Kingdom. May 15 2012 20:42. Posts 218

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lol guys I just didnt know you were meant to get bunkers when defending a 4gate. and yeah I didnt scout because I thought his 4gate was so weak he must have expanded behind it.

but now I know what to do next time. Thanks a lot.

Tears soaks each hand the dealer's dealt. But time taught me how to see every second as heaven even when they're perfectly disguised as hell.

BronzeKnee United States. May 16 2012 00:44. Posts 2620

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... and you're still amazingly bm. As in the last thread I posed this question, why are you opening with gl hf if your going to bm all game? If your opponent did some pause/unpause shenangians that cost you 2 Marauders as you claimed in the chat, you deserved it. Saying "gg wp" because you are ahead is very bm.

Anyway, you died because you opened 2 rax and for some reason went down your ramp to battle a 4 Gate in the open field. If you had sat on top of your ramp and walled off when you saw the attack coming, you would have won the game easily. You didn't necessarily need a Bunker for that game, but it is good to get one if you scout 4 Gate, or the lack of an expand in general, since Bunkers are always helpful vs any Protoss all-in and you can salvage em later if the Protoss player tries to expand.

You had a SCV in his natural so you knew he didn't expand, and you also could have used that to scout inside his base after he began attacking to check exactly what was coming at you (it could have been 3 Gate pressure with a Dark Shrine building in the background, meaning you would need an Engineering Bay).

So compared to your last replay, your build order is much better but your unit positioning (no reason to be down the ramp in the natural prior to your CC landing) and general decision making is poor (should have gone up the ramp and walled off or built a Bunker, should use scouting SCV). It would honestly help you a lot if you dropped your attitude both in game and after the game and took some time to analyze your own replays objectively without thinking how depressing it is that your opponent is high diamond and killed you with a 4 Gate. Anytime you lose to an all-in like that, it isn't solely because of your opponent's skill, it is also because of your lack of skill. His build was dependent on you making mistakes, and you made plenty of them. If you make no mistakes, you pick up an easy win vs a 4 Gate, especially in PvT. Finally you should watch some pro-replays and copy not only their builds, but think about why they are doing certain things, or why they aren't doing certain things.

Last edit: 2012-05-16 13:06:25

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