I don't have much to say but I just got 10 minutes out of the debate tourny so I'm checking in, I'm caught up, I don't know how i feel on the acid case now, I'm mostly interested to see who gets killed before I provide new analysis, I don't really have time to think over any of the longstanding conflicts at this second :/
"TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa
Artanis[Xp] Netherlands. May 27 2012 06:59. Posts 3451
Day 3 After a momentary setback for Artanis, he contemplated his next move. His turn started and he untapped his lands, drew a card, and instantly smiled. GreYMisT was worried at this sudden change of attitude from his opponent, but couldn't do much as a Ball Lightning was played. Artanis also took control of Acid~, forcing GreYMisT to take it out by destroying the enchantment, killing Acid~. After this, Artanis attacked with his Ball Lightning. Forced to block or die, Marvellosity was sent to block the lightning creature, and instantly died of electrocution. The tables seemed to be turning once again.
Marvellosity the Village Townie has died! Vanilla Townie - You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, you are terrified of the mafia, and must strive to weed them out before the exterminate you and your fellow citizens. Every day you may vote for who you want to see lynched. Your wits and your votes will carry the town to glorious victory or shameful defeat.
Acid~ the Village Townie has died! Vanilla Townie - You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, you are terrified of the mafia, and must strive to weed them out before the exterminate you and your fellow citizens. Every day you may vote for who you want to see lynched. Your wits and your votes will carry the town to glorious victory or shameful defeat. It is now Day! You have 48 hours to bring out your vote. I'd like to remind players not to insult other players' lives, pets, genitalia, intelligence, physical condition, hairstyle, music taste, or toothbrushes.
Last edit: 2012-05-27 07:01:24
HiroPro United States. May 27 2012 06:59. Posts 2150
I think the major points of my cases against Tunkeg still hold true:
His first post talking about how he was going to change his style looked very fake and like a deliberate attempt to discredit his meta.
A lot of his posting is completely unrelated to reads and cases and he seems to spend a lot of time asking pointless questions.
And he was one of the people to believe Zealos and vote for me with little reason other than "Oh. DT is very important. We should listen to him."
But since this night, Tunkeg's posting has looked pretty different. He spent a lot of time talking about his reads, and it seems very odd to me that as scum he would call attention to himself, by talking about the fact that people who voted for me should be considered suspicious:
On May 26 2012 19:09 Tunkeg wrote: Zealos, froggynoddy, Mattchew, Tunkeg, VisceraEyes, Acid~
These are the players that voted for HiroPro after the DT check. Zealos, Mattchew, Tunkeg, Acid~ are the players who didn't change their vote. I am certain there is at least one scum among the 5 that isn't Zealos, who either voted and switched or voted and stayed. VE I am scratching, same with froggynoddy (even if I am sold on him being town yet).
This leaves Mattchew and acid.On Mattchew I have said what I think, at least about what occured before the lynch, I have also said what I thought of his flavor posting and his return to normal posting. Acid I think is a good option, he was pushing the counterwagon on Zelblade together with Mattchew. He was softdefending Zealos in a manner that makes me suspicious. He ended up voting Zealos before the claim, but I think the reason for voting is strange:
On May 25 2012 07:24 marvellosity wrote: That doesn't really address of what I see as a pretty big inconsistency on his thought process on zelblade/zealos though
Me thinky zelblade scum. Me thinky zealos maybe scum. Me thinky zealos maybe bad town.
On a more serious note, it seems like the zelblade vote is losing traction and I don't want a repeat of day one fiasco, so
##Unvote ##Vote: Zealos
Add into the mix that Acid left his vote on marvellous day 1, when in the end the lynch was between Jeb and NT, Acids secound biggest scumread. I can not see why a townie wouldn't switch to his secound biggest scumread in a case like this.
Overall I would suggest that the Vig, if the vig is shooting tonight, shoots into the pool that voted HiroPro, and more specifically Mattchew or Acid. These are also the two I think a day 3 lynch should be between if a vig don't shoot.
Also if either of these flips scum Zelblade should be exonerated, as he was the counterwagon,a nd I doubt scum would push another scum for a counterwagon.
I still that Tunkeg has a good chance to be scum, but I think my other two cases are a better shot at this point.
HiroPro United States. May 27 2012 07:00. Posts 2150
On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote: Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity: Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee: Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion.
EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing
On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote: Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote ##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate.
How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play?
I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised:
##Unvote ##Vote Katina
Inactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance.
I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear?
On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote: Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill
Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience.
On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote: Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that.
I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc.
Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"?
ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post
I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town.
Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote.
##Vote Nove_Terra
Based on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia.
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game? ... ... Spam!
JubJub 2:
On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote: DoctorHelvetica is mafia
This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards.
DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post:
On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse
The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post:
On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote: @doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum
Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it.
Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though.
I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him.
I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not.
And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this:
On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie.
And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu.
What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu.
Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post:
On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth.
This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again.
On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little.
and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense.
DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them.
Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post:
On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs
His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion.
Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him".
This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia:
On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time.
Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions.
It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural.
I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is. Summary DrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia ##Vote DoctorHelvetica
In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here.
This Game:
On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote: Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people.
On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote: Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz?
Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles.
Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested.
After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game.
I have been sir.
I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them).
You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates.
The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know.
Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead.
When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new.
With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum.
Nova_Terra Switzerland. May 27 2012 07:02. Posts 1180
NT Mafia kp is allways 1. So we know Vig shot, and 99,9999999999999999% he shot Acid, which was a good shot imo. Now vig should claim, then we will have at least one confirmed town, or a counterclaim.
It worries me that both WBG and VE is alive. The shot on Marv makes perfect sense by scum, but still. One or both of them is scum. And if VE is it he did a good job taking out Marv as scumteam probably see town as incapable of getting a lynch through on him now that Marv is gone. This is just speculations for now though, and we got some heavy reading to do to try to figure out if this might be true...
Nova_Terra Switzerland. May 27 2012 07:17. Posts 1180
On May 27 2012 07:14 Nova_Terra wrote: Tunkeg if im right you are townie lynch hiro and then win?
If it only were that simple. I still don't think Hiro is scum. I would like the vig to step forward, then we have confirmed townie with confirmed reads we can discuss with. We allready have 4 dead though, 3 townies which might who we know weren't bullshitting, and one scum who might have outed some of his teammates indirectly. If we get the vig to step forward, and we put some effort into the next lynch we should be able to get it right. If my worst fears are right, WBG and VE being scum together I think we will be hard pressed though, but this is for us to figure out.
Nova_Terra Switzerland. May 27 2012 07:22. Posts 1180
Tunkeg, only one of the two is scum if any. the convos were NOT fake. they just werent. furthermore, that sets up for a second scum against scum situation, which already happened with zealos and hiro, which hasnt happened cause eres no way that would happen twice in a game.
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