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| cybertopo Spain. May 16 2012 22:41. Posts 496 | Profile # |
So I was just reading the interview ( here ) TL did to the MLG guys and they talk, and I quote: "(...) and to learn from the Flash's, Bisus and Storks of the world".
So, I think everyone in this forum knows about the TBLS (Taek-Baeng Leessang, which refers to Flash, Jaedong, Stork and Bisu), seeing this I always wondered why Stork belonged to this group. I mean, he is a great player, but we are putting him in the same category as people who have won 3 individual titles at least (in before BISU NO OSL LOL).
So, why is this?
I thought that maybe they needed a Protoss and since Bisu isn't quite at the same level as Flash and Jaedong, they decided to add another P to the mix. Or maybe is it because Flash and Jaedong never found a rival in their same race as fierce as Storku?
Enlighten me.
P.S.: It seems as this matter would have been discussed before, but I didn't find anything, so I hope I didn't fuck up.Last edit: 2012-05-18 00:02:41 |
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 GTR May 16 2012 22:43. Posts 39088 | Profile Blog # |
Stork was pretty much blow-to-blow with Bisu in terms of best Protoss around the time after the 3.3 revolution.
Also he made tons of major league finals, only to choke and lose. |
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| VGhost United States. May 16 2012 22:46. Posts 1835 | Profile Blog # |
Context explains a lot - the term's been around since 2008 or so: Bisu had his MSLs but Flash and JD "way back then" only had a title or so each, Stork (finally) won a league.
Also the thing about Stork is it seems like he ought to do better (he's consistently up with the win leaders in Proleague, makes it deep into most starleagues, etc. etc.) he just doesn't. Whether it's due to laziness (cell phone games lol) or some other problem... eh. |
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| ShadeR Australia. May 16 2012 22:51. Posts 6606 | Profile Blog # |
| Flash and Jaedong got their first golds from Stork. /thread |
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| Talin Montenegro. May 16 2012 22:55. Posts 8173 | Profile Blog # |
It's been TJLS for me for a long time now tbh (since JinAir OSL).
Edit: Bacchus, mindfart  Last edit: 2012-05-16 23:00:49 |
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| figq May 16 2012 22:55. Posts 9622 | Profile Blog # |
Consider what would happen if Stork's OSL silvers were golds (disregarding even other leagues):
Stork: 4 titles
Flash: 2
Jaedong: 2
(Bisu: 0 )
Impressed?
Basically, if not for Flash, Jaedong would have been the greatest player. If not for Flash and Jaedong, Stork would have been the greatest. If not for the three of them... Fantasy would still be greater than Bisu, hahaha.Last edit: 2012-05-16 23:00:34 |
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| cybertopo Spain. May 16 2012 22:57. Posts 496 | Profile # |
On May 16 2012 22:43 GTR wrote:
Stork was pretty much blow-to-blow with Bisu in terms of best Protoss around the time after the 3.3 revolution.
Also he made tons of major league finals, only to choke and lose.
On May 16 2012 22:46 VGhost wrote:
Context explains a lot - the term's been around since 2008 or so: Bisu had his MSLs but Flash and JD "way back then" only had a title or so each, Stork (finally) won a league.
Also the thing about Stork is it seems like he ought to do better (he's consistently up with the win leaders in Proleague, makes it deep into most starleagues, etc. etc.) he just doesn't. Whether it's due to laziness (cell phone games lol) or some other problem... eh.
Oh, that does explain a lot, thank you!
/thread
I guess we can use the thread to pick on Stork then
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| moochu Australia. May 16 2012 23:00. Posts 354 | Profile # |
| Always felt bad for fantasy, skill wise feels like he should be knocking on the door of tbls. |
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 2Pacalypse- Croatia. May 16 2012 23:14. Posts 4085 | Profile # |
This is his head-to-head score against each of them:
vs Flash (13 wins - 14 losses (48.15%))
vs Jaedong (14 wins - 13 losses (51.85%))
vs Bisu (15 wins - 10 losses (60.00%)) |
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| Kittan Poland. May 16 2012 23:17. Posts 1255 | Profile # |
On May 16 2012 23:00 moochu wrote:
Always felt bad for fantasy, skill wise feels like he should be knocking on the door of tbls.
I always thought of Fantasy as the 'Gatekeeper' to S class. Even while he's contesting the #1 spot, he gave of that vibe 'if you want to have a shot at TBLS, you have to go through ME' kind of thing 
Note: Fanta is my favourite T, no contest. So blind fanboyism might be present. |
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| Antisocialmunky United States. May 16 2012 23:33. Posts 5069 | Profile Blog # |
Didn't he have like 2 girlfriends over the years and the last one dumped him right before the most recent finals vs Fantasy?
Or were people making it up and he was just lazy and played too much WoW?Last edit: 2012-05-16 23:36:22 |
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| OpticalShot Canada. May 16 2012 23:40. Posts 5929 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2012 23:33 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Didn't he have like 2 girlfriends over the years and the last one dumped him right before the most recent finals vs Fantasy?
Or were people making it up and he was just lazy and played too much WoW?
IIRC same girl, they're back together. He did play WoW (he admitted it) but "not that much" lol.
Stork has been around 8 years in the professional scene and he's still kickin' it strong as a top-notch, respected, team-ace player. That's why he's so respected. Generally those veterans are bench-warmers before they make take a bow and retire.
I also read somewhere or someone told me that amongst progamers, Stork is still considered "the absolute best" when it comes to large army management and control vs. Terran. With his low APM, he still manages to do extremely clean and efficient army management, most of the time. Anyway, I'm a big Stork fanboy and yeah Stork <3
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| rift United States. May 16 2012 23:44. Posts 1506 | Profile Blog # |
| Stork's silvers came at the hands of Bisu Jaedong Flash Fantasy; you can't get much tougher competition than that. His lifetime win rate is almost up there with them, with the 8 players above 60% (inc. nada oov effort), his PvT noteworthy at 66%, the best in history. He's been in 5 finals, whereas Bisu has been in 4; he's been at or near the top longer than Bisu, and has almost as many months at Kespa #1. The fact that he's still making Starleague runs at his age is a testament to his longevity, and I'd say he's one of the favorites this time around, after a great Proleague season. Since 2009 Bisu has been a Proleague monster but consistently underwhelming where the top talent lies in Starleague/MSL. Last edit: 2012-05-16 23:45:36 |
| | “My mind is full of thoughts about Starcraft. When I shower, when I eat, I would always be playing ‘imaginary games’ in my head. I think it’s because no one’s forcing me to play Starcraft, but rather I want to do it, is why I’ve done so well." | |
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| Unnamezz May 16 2012 23:55. Posts 167 | Profile # |
Stork -> His PvT is good.
Bisu -> His PvZ is good.
My understanding betwen these 2 Protoss. |
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| FuRong New Zealand. May 17 2012 00:00. Posts 2678 | Profile # |
| To be honest, based on results over the last couple of years, Fanta probably deserves the spot more. But it's TBLS...you can't really change it. |
| | Don't hate the player, hate the game |  |
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| imperator-xy Germany. May 17 2012 00:24. Posts 1247 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2012 22:41 cybertopo wrote:
since Bisu isn't quite at the same level as Flash and Jaedong
ok
i mean "ok" |
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| baubo China. May 17 2012 01:01. Posts 3262 | Profile # |
People really underestimate Stork's overall achievement because he tends to come and go these days, performing at peak level at times, average player at others. You really have to look at his entire body of work to understand why Korean fans put him with Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash.
Medal Count
1 OSL Gold(beat Fantasy in the finals)
3 OSL Silvers(lost to Flash, Jaedong, and Fantasy when those three were near or at the top of BW scene at the time)
1 MSL Silver(lost to Bisu in the infamous "Goon Range" Game 5)
1 WCG Gold and 2 WCG Silvers(mostly an achievement for being 1 of 3 Korean players to qualify in three straight years)
1 GOM Invitational Silver(Famous for Flash's anti-carrier build)
1 SPL Gold(Ace player for 2008 Samsung Khan team that won it all)
1 SPL Silver(Ace player for 2007 Samsung Khan team that lost to Oz in the finals)
Other tidbits
- The best PvT player in history(career-wise). He peaked in 07-08, when his PvT was considered literally invincible. In fact, Flash first rise to become the top player was basically destroying Stork's then unbeatable PvT in GOM Invitational and later Bacchus OSL. Even today Stork's basically always among the top PvTer. His carrier builds in PvT are pretty much auto-win against just about everyone except Flash.
-Consistently plays in both the OSL and the MSL. Generally advancing much further in OSL than the MSL. This is one aspect that Bisu can't touch, since he's generally a MSL-only guy.
-The most consistent senior progamer, as he's been around longer than BLS. Very good player since even back in 2005. And still made a SL finals in 2011.
-Always had trouble concentrating solely on BW. Even mentioned how he was playing WoW when he should've been practicing for the finals. This result in him getting into a lot of "slumps" when he would look pedestrian for long stretches. Because he can't keep his concentration on BW as intently as many others.
-Mediocre overall PvZ has plagued his entire career. He plays great PvZ at times, horrendous ones at others. I don't have the stats, but it seems like a majority of his SL exits came at the hand of zergs.
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| raga4ka Bulgaria. May 17 2012 01:30. Posts 5001 | Profile # |
| Stork wins a lot , but just not when it matters the most . He trashes players in PL and league group stages and doesn't play to his full ability in Bo5 series against opponents on his level . Doesn't innovate much and plays to predictable which leads to opponents playing mind games on him which ends up in Stork chocking . Last edit: 2012-05-17 01:30:49 |
| | "For the progamer of today and ad infinitum, there will always be the ceiling that is Ma Jae-Yoon. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair" -Xxio | |
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 Seeker  Korea (South). May 17 2012 01:45. Posts 17326 | Profile Blog # |
| Pretty sure if Daniel saw this, he'd prepare an entire essay defending why Stork belongs up there. Complete with pictures, graphs, and gifs of Stork being a complete boss |
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| Chef May 17 2012 01:49. Posts 9708 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2012 23:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This is his head-to-head score against each of them: vs Flash (13 wins - 14 losses (48.15%)) vs Jaedong (14 wins - 13 losses (51.85%)) vs Bisu (15 wins - 10 losses (60.00%))
Ya, pretty much speaks for itself. Stork players more than evenly with them in Proleague. He's lost to each of them in finals, but beaten them in earlier stages and I wouldn't call it stork choking either when watching the games for the most part. He deserves to be up there for sure. |
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