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| whyjesse July 14 2012 08:53. Posts 6 | Profile # |
On July 14 2012 04:06 Skyro wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 01:37 whyjesse wrote:
On July 14 2012 01:04 Ktk wrote:
On July 14 2012 00:27 whyjesse wrote:
No, what I meant was that if you have invulnerable minions or shielding, the shielded/invul ones act as meatshields for the unshielded ones. For nonpenetrating attacks like AO, or if you can't get into attack the vulnerable ones with WW/freezelock, you can't hit them. Disintegrate beams go through invulnerable opponents so this meat shield effect no longer applies.
Lightning Blast and Piercing Orb take care of this fine with no AP cost IMO, but this is an interesting build. One i stylistically dont like since kiting with disintegrate "feels" (maybe not is, but feels) weak compared to discrete bursts of damage.
It might actually be weaker if you're kiting with it. Channeled spells all do continuous damage (versus bursted discrete). Therefore the DPS is not "up front". If you're kiting, AO is much stronger. But if you can sit and channel, the DPS will be similar (or arguably higher, because they're more precise/easy-to-aim) for channeled spells. And idk, when I was playing AO / WW builds, I always had issues with invulnerable minions and shielding... maybe it's just my skills as a player but idk.
That doesn't really make sense. Say your cast speed is 1/sec. You cast AO which causes you to stand still and cast for 1 sec. You then channel a spell for 1 sec. The end result is the same as you basically stood still for 1 sec. In fact the advantage goes to channeled spells because you can do a .5 sec cast (or whatever) instead of being forced to do the full 1 sec cast.
When you have 1.00 APS, your cast time (how long you stay in 1 spot) is not 1 second. You can move in between your casts.
What I meant is, assume you have a channeled spell that hits 100% wd and a burst spell that hits 100% wd. Each of them can do 1 attack within 1 second. Assume both have no projectile travel time. If you use the burst spell, then the 100% wd is applied on cast (i.e.instantly). If you use the channeled spell, then the 100% wd is accumulated over the 1 second. Therefore the instantaneous DPS is higher for burst. If you had an opponent that has the same health as 1 cast, then it's dead instantly with the burst and dead at 1 second with the channel. Over time (ignoring the initial cast) of course they are equal.
Also, side note: the build I posted (with disintegrate) is also usable with AO-Celestial. You need more spectral blades hits to because AO doesn't channel. But you don't have to stand still so you can clear up 1 of your defensive cooldowns, add hydra, and kite.Last edit: 2012-07-14 08:53:41 |
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| Nored July 14 2012 09:04. Posts 9 | Profile # |
Fresh 60 Wizard, haven't started inferno yet. Looking for some tips on what to get next. I want to upgrade my rings/amulet, but anything that seems decent with int/vit/AR seems to be in the 15-20m range (HC NA). Here's my gear/stats (unbuffed):
+ Show Spoiler +
Link since the picture is a bit too big.
As you can see from the picture, I have a little under 800k gold, but I have a few more items that I'm currently selling (and hoping to get at least another 1m-ish for them). Anyone got any advice for what I should be aiming to upgrade in order to start inferno? |
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| TheRealDudeMan United States. July 14 2012 10:55. Posts 213 | Profile # |
On July 14 2012 04:30 sjschmidt93 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 01:10 TheRealDudeMan wrote:
On July 13 2012 13:39 sjschmidt93 wrote:
So what do I need to farm act III? I've made some pretty big strides in the last couple days and this is what I got...
405 AR (next lowest is PR at 449)
36k hp
55k dmg (+30%)
And I still can't do shit.
I want to go for a balanced approach.. I do not want to have 1000 AR with virtually no dps nor do I want to be 1-shotted by everything because I have 120k dps.
You need at least 800 AR and 8k armor with prismatic. You are still going to take 3-5k hits with those stats. 55k damage is a lot and I clear arreat crater with a tanky 20k dps.
How do I know when Prismatic is better than force? I've been using it a little but I still feel more tanky with force. I now have 728 w/ it and 504 w/o it. And as far as I can tell there is no way in hell I'm getting 8k armor without a shield... which would be -20k dps
You can skip a shield and get near 10k armor. Like I've said before, I had to cut back on armor because i was only gaining .4% protection per 1k after 11k. Problem is that you are going to get real picky with the equipment you find. Anything below 350 armor is junk. Chests and helms need to be 600 at least. Strength adds armor so if you tack on a little bit of strength here and there, you have another items worth of armor in your stats.
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| | "They claim that we violent. We named after Tyrants. This revolution won't be televised we keep it silent." |
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| Staboteur Canada. July 14 2012 11:36. Posts 645 | Profile # |
On July 14 2012 04:30 sjschmidt93 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 01:10 TheRealDudeMan wrote:
On July 13 2012 13:39 sjschmidt93 wrote:
So what do I need to farm act III? I've made some pretty big strides in the last couple days and this is what I got...
405 AR (next lowest is PR at 449)
36k hp
55k dmg (+30%)
And I still can't do shit.
I want to go for a balanced approach.. I do not want to have 1000 AR with virtually no dps nor do I want to be 1-shotted by everything because I have 120k dps.
You need at least 800 AR and 8k armor with prismatic. You are still going to take 3-5k hits with those stats. 55k damage is a lot and I clear arreat crater with a tanky 20k dps.
How do I know when Prismatic is better than force? I've been using it a little but I still feel more tanky with force. I now have 728 w/ it and 504 w/o it. And as far as I can tell there is no way in hell I'm getting 8k armor without a shield... which would be -20k dps
20k dps? Ouch, but I hardly think that's considering a "good" shield. Here, some information to consider.
The fundamental differences between a shield and a source in the offhand are few but hugely impacting. On the side of a source, you gain a guaranteed +damage value and -can- roll AP and AP on crit, where the shield cannot. On the side of the shield, you gain a guaranteed +armour bonus, a guaranteed block stat, and can roll all resists where a source cannot. Essentially, what you're declaring when you opt for a source over a shield is that your stats will be better amplified by 250-400 damage than they would be by 1000+ armour and a chance to block 3.5-4.5k damage.
It's worth it to look in the AH and keep an eye on shields, as a wizard. Personally, within about 20 minutes of discovering that sources might not actually be optimal for my build, I found a sacred shield with 19% base block chance, ~80 intel and vitality, +10% life and +9% crit chance, as well as a hefty armour value, and a socket to boot... Sure, I lost about 1k dps over the source I was using (it didn't have crit chance!  ) but my build at the time was highly defensive, meaning that my defensive stats scaled fantastically with the block chance and allowed me to safely use a critical mass / archon build to regain the damage I'd sacrificed.
Shields are pretty fuggin' awesome. If you're losing 20k dps switching to a shield, it's either extremely impressive that you've got 20k dps to lose, or you're not searching for a shield with int and crit chance. |
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| sjschmidt93 United States. July 14 2012 13:12. Posts 2516 | Profile # |
On July 14 2012 11:36 Staboteur wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 04:30 sjschmidt93 wrote:
On July 14 2012 01:10 TheRealDudeMan wrote:
On July 13 2012 13:39 sjschmidt93 wrote:
So what do I need to farm act III? I've made some pretty big strides in the last couple days and this is what I got...
405 AR (next lowest is PR at 449)
36k hp
55k dmg (+30%)
And I still can't do shit.
I want to go for a balanced approach.. I do not want to have 1000 AR with virtually no dps nor do I want to be 1-shotted by everything because I have 120k dps.
You need at least 800 AR and 8k armor with prismatic. You are still going to take 3-5k hits with those stats. 55k damage is a lot and I clear arreat crater with a tanky 20k dps.
How do I know when Prismatic is better than force? I've been using it a little but I still feel more tanky with force. I now have 728 w/ it and 504 w/o it. And as far as I can tell there is no way in hell I'm getting 8k armor without a shield... which would be -20k dps
20k dps? Ouch, but I hardly think that's considering a "good" shield. Here, some information to consider. The fundamental differences between a shield and a source in the offhand are few but hugely impacting. On the side of a source, you gain a guaranteed +damage value and -can- roll AP and AP on crit, where the shield cannot. On the side of the shield, you gain a guaranteed +armour bonus, a guaranteed block stat, and can roll all resists where a source cannot. Essentially, what you're declaring when you opt for a source over a shield is that your stats will be better amplified by 250-400 damage than they would be by 1000+ armour and a chance to block 3.5-4.5k damage. It's worth it to look in the AH and keep an eye on shields, as a wizard. Personally, within about 20 minutes of discovering that sources might not actually be optimal for my build, I found a sacred shield with 19% base block chance, ~80 intel and vitality, +10% life and +9% crit chance, as well as a hefty armour value, and a socket to boot... Sure, I lost about 1k dps over the source I was using (it didn't have crit chance! ) but my build at the time was highly defensive, meaning that my defensive stats scaled fantastically with the block chance and allowed me to safely use a critical mass / archon build to regain the damage I'd sacrificed. Shields are pretty fuggin' awesome. If you're losing 20k dps switching to a shield, it's either extremely impressive that you've got 20k dps to lose, or you're not searching for a shield with int and crit chance.
Yeah, I guess I should not have put it that way. By that, I meant when I take my source off I lose 20k dps (without replacing it with anything). My current source is like 100-320 dmg and 8.5% crit chance. It's not great, but probably only my 3rd worst piece.
Last edit: 2012-07-14 13:14:34 |
| | My grandpa could've proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, he's also dead. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott |
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| Skyro United States. July 14 2012 14:04. Posts 1414 | Profile # |
On July 14 2012 08:53 whyjesse wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 04:06 Skyro wrote:
On July 14 2012 01:37 whyjesse wrote:
On July 14 2012 01:04 Ktk wrote:
On July 14 2012 00:27 whyjesse wrote:
No, what I meant was that if you have invulnerable minions or shielding, the shielded/invul ones act as meatshields for the unshielded ones. For nonpenetrating attacks like AO, or if you can't get into attack the vulnerable ones with WW/freezelock, you can't hit them. Disintegrate beams go through invulnerable opponents so this meat shield effect no longer applies.
Lightning Blast and Piercing Orb take care of this fine with no AP cost IMO, but this is an interesting build. One i stylistically dont like since kiting with disintegrate "feels" (maybe not is, but feels) weak compared to discrete bursts of damage.
It might actually be weaker if you're kiting with it. Channeled spells all do continuous damage (versus bursted discrete). Therefore the DPS is not "up front". If you're kiting, AO is much stronger. But if you can sit and channel, the DPS will be similar (or arguably higher, because they're more precise/easy-to-aim) for channeled spells. And idk, when I was playing AO / WW builds, I always had issues with invulnerable minions and shielding... maybe it's just my skills as a player but idk.
That doesn't really make sense. Say your cast speed is 1/sec. You cast AO which causes you to stand still and cast for 1 sec. You then channel a spell for 1 sec. The end result is the same as you basically stood still for 1 sec. In fact the advantage goes to channeled spells because you can do a .5 sec cast (or whatever) instead of being forced to do the full 1 sec cast.
When you have 1.00 APS, your cast time (how long you stay in 1 spot) is not 1 second. You can move in between your casts. What I meant is, assume you have a channeled spell that hits 100% wd and a burst spell that hits 100% wd. Each of them can do 1 attack within 1 second. Assume both have no projectile travel time. If you use the burst spell, then the 100% wd is applied on cast (i.e.instantly). If you use the channeled spell, then the 100% wd is accumulated over the 1 second. Therefore the instantaneous DPS is higher for burst. If you had an opponent that has the same health as 1 cast, then it's dead instantly with the burst and dead at 1 second with the channel. Over time (ignoring the initial cast) of course they are equal. Also, side note: the build I posted (with disintegrate) is also usable with AO-Celestial. You need more spectral blades hits to because AO doesn't channel. But you don't have to stand still so you can clear up 1 of your defensive cooldowns, add hydra, and kite.
And you know this how? Try spamming magic missile. Your next cast occurs immediately after the animation from the previous ends, and you cannot interrupt the casting animation in any way (e.g. by moving). If you were actually able to interrupt your cast animation everybody would move the exact time your magic missile fires, but that is obviously not the case. If there is any actual "delay" between casts it is very very small.
All that other stuff I'm not sure what your point is because there is no such spell like you are describing. You can kite just fine with channeled spells and in fact channeled spells actually have a distinct advantage in being able to interrupt the cast whenever you want and also suffering far less from overkill. The reason people use MM and AO is because the range of those spells, not because they are casted instead of channeled. If disintegrate had as long a range it would be just (if not more) viable.Last edit: 2012-07-14 14:07:33 |
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| KiWiKaKi Canada. July 15 2012 02:17. Posts 604 | Profile # |
who can beat my epic shield of history
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YScmg.png) |
| | ur pro or ur noob , thats life |
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| freetgy July 15 2012 02:53. Posts 1582 | Profile # |
| decent tank shield, though it lacks armor |
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| TheRealDudeMan United States. July 15 2012 08:33. Posts 213 | Profile # |
| Nah that shield is amazing. Just have to insert the armor somewhere else. It is only 400 armor short of top tier ( including strength ). I just hope you found it instead of buying it then coming here to gloat. |
| | "They claim that we violent. We named after Tyrants. This revolution won't be televised we keep it silent." |
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| masterbreti Korea (South). July 15 2012 10:54. Posts 2547 | Profile Blog # |
I've just started leveling a Wiz and I had one small question. Just out of general curosity, would a 1 handed wand with a source have more dps than a 2 handed staff? Does source's add to weapon damage that spells use?
which one is more effective? |
| | Playing sc2 in Korea! Twitter: radrelsc |
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| Chylith Canada. July 15 2012 11:45. Posts 159 | Profile # |
On July 15 2012 10:54 masterbreti wrote:
I've just started leveling a Wiz and I had one small question. Just out of general curosity, would a 1 handed wand with a source have more dps than a 2 handed staff? Does source's add to weapon damage that spells use?
which one is more effective?
If you're going any sort of crit build a 2 hander is far cheaper to make incredibly strong than a 1H/OH.
If you're going that fancy new tornado build a 1h + shield works best I belive.
For anything else A 1H/OH is "faster"(higher atkspeed, faster casts, better for signature spells) But a 2 hander hits way way harder, So it's really a matter of: Do you want to cast faster and run around more, or do you want to hit really hard but cast way slower?
I use a 2 hander(Orb/hydra/blizzard crit build) and crit for around 300k and frankly for a 1H/OH to be worthwhile to me It'd cost a vast sum(100 mill+ for the wep, 20mill+ for the source) before I'd "maybe" see a slight improvement in dmg, the 2hander cost 3 mill, for comparison.
tl;dr is 2 hander is better overall dmg for cheaper price, 1h/oh is better if you can afford to spend vast sums of money or if you "really" need fast cast/atkspeed(which if your stutterstep micro is at all good, you don't.) |
| | Goddamnit this is the most retarded thing I will read all week and it's only fucking tuesday. ~Hawk |
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| NTTemplar July 15 2012 21:04. Posts 350 | Profile # |
On July 15 2012 02:17 KiWiKaKi wrote:who can beat my epic shield of history
I see your Final Levee and raise you my Castle Blame
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0pUxx.png) Last edit: 2012-07-15 21:04:46 |
| | "Between Tomorrow's dream and yesterday's regret, is today's opportunity" |
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| TheMooseHeed United Kingdom. July 15 2012 21:11. Posts 463 | Profile # |
Ok so I have switched to the www build and I am having moderate success with it. However I am stuck as to where I can begin to upgrade my gear. Alot of the items that are better in my eyes cost more gold then I have ever owned so maybe I am overlooking a middle ground of average priced gear.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X6Va1.png) |
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| NTTemplar July 15 2012 21:25. Posts 350 | Profile # |
On July 15 2012 21:11 TheMooseHeed wrote:Ok so I have switched to the www build and I am having moderate success with it. However I am stuck as to where I can begin to upgrade my gear. Alot of the items that are better in my eyes cost more gold then I have ever owned so maybe I am overlooking a middle ground of average priced gear.
Would help to know what your price range is |
| | "Between Tomorrow's dream and yesterday's regret, is today's opportunity" |
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| TheMooseHeed United Kingdom. July 15 2012 21:30. Posts 463 | Profile # |
| Sorry, 1mill per item, maybe 1.5 Last edit: 2012-07-15 21:31:28 |
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| Turin Germany. July 15 2012 21:37. Posts 71 | Profile # |
| Well first order of business should be to get a better weapon. 557 dps is ridicolously low. Sure it has high Loh, but a wizard should not need that and you already have arcane power on crit on your helmet. |
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| TheMooseHeed United Kingdom. July 15 2012 21:44. Posts 463 | Profile # |
Life on hit is neccesary for the build as is ap on crit.
I mean I guess if I forgo the ap on crit for the weapon I can go much higher in dps. Is 7 ap on crit enough for the www build to function? Or would I need more ap on crit on my helm? |
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| AnAngryDingo United States. July 16 2012 02:46. Posts 209 | Profile # |
im also looking to go to this build. how important is crit damage on weapon? i'm currently using a 1h spear (710dps) with 90% crit dmg socketed with a 300 LoH amethyst. would it be better to buy a wand with AP on crit and LoH, or just buy a better amethyst and keep the spear? Can't afford crit dam/LoH/AP on crit wand  |
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| Hydrolisko Vanuatu. July 16 2012 03:41. Posts 1500 | Profile Blog # |
| hey guys, for the wicked wind melee build, how much arcane on crit do you need generally? thx! |
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| KiWiKaKi Canada. July 16 2012 03:47. Posts 604 | Profile # |
| its impossible, photoshopped |
| | ur pro or ur noob , thats life |
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