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| RaiZ France. May 27 2012 14:13. Posts 2516 | Profile Blog # |
How can you deal with the elites pack ?... Even 400 all resist doesn't help, i get too few dps and can't kill them decently. It's just impossible to kill them without dying at least 5 times T_T
Inferno act1. A lot of CCs and not a bear build
Reasoning : I spend most of my time dpsing with splinters poison darts and grasp with 80% slow speed. If things get ugly, i cast the zombie wall and/or mass confusion, Hex are here for healing + CC 1 elite from time to time. I think we all know why i've kept spirit walk.
I'm still getting a lot of troubles against vortex + molten/plague or against all mortar's type. Fast are also annoying, much like invulnerable minions + illusion... Seriously i want to quit the WD and reroll. T_T
There's simply no way to play that class in inferno HC, is it ? |
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| Esoterikk Canada. May 27 2012 14:34. Posts 333 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2012 11:46 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:13 Esoterikk wrote:
I fully agree that bears isn't fun, I plan to reroll to be honest. Kiting on a WD doesn't feel fun, mana feels broken its got the longevity of arcane power with 1/10th the regen unless you turn into a one trick pony (bears) or spam a single target boring spell (darts). 30% of the class is useless in inferno (pets and all pet related things).
I hope blizzard balances mana to be honest, I should be able to rotate dire bat spam with darts without going completely oom after 5 bats but the way mana is designed it's just not possible.
Just need to decide between wizard/monk/barb
yep, blizzard dun goofed with mana. 2 playstyles currently exist, either the 'resourceless' standard play where its basically impossible to use your mana, or bears with 300% passive and it feels more like energy. i assumed the point of giving every class its own resource was to make them more different but in the end they ended up all feeling the same. i dont think its that big an issue though, and my opinion will probably change. just strike as odd.
The biggest thing I hate about the manaless rotation is the lack of AOE and I think VQ is a gimmick, the issue I have with this is darts don't go through anything so if you get shielding at all or invuln its a huge crap shoot. Not to mention only having one viable non attack is pretty dumb. |
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| udgnim United States. May 27 2012 18:05. Posts 6523 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2012 14:13 RaiZ wrote:How can you deal with the elites pack ?... Even 400 all resist doesn't help, i get too few dps and can't kill them decently. It's just impossible to kill them without dying at least 5 times T_T Inferno act1. A lot of CCs and not a bear buildReasoning : I spend most of my time dpsing with splinters poison darts and grasp with 80% slow speed. If things get ugly, i cast the zombie wall and/or mass confusion, Hex are here for healing + CC 1 elite from time to time. I think we all know why i've kept spirit walk. I'm still getting a lot of troubles against vortex + molten/plague or against all mortar's type. Fast are also annoying, much like invulnerable minions + illusion... Seriously i want to quit the WD and reroll. T_T There's simply no way to play that class in inferno HC, is it ?
what's your DPS? I think after I upgraded to around 20K+ DPS and getting ~400 resist, I was pretty comfortable against most things in A1. WD is less powerful than Wizard or DH in Inferno though.
my WD is on the Zolton Kulle part of A2 in Inferno and has around 28K DPS, 33K HP, and ~400 Resist
I ran into this near the entrance to get Kulle's blood. I'm definitely not going to be able to kill that because of limited space so I decided to try my luck in Vault of the Assassin and was able to clear most of everything in there except for 2 elite packs.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JtLg5.jpg)
I have no idea how Wizards or DHs deal with stuff that moves fast, but I'd really like to know if there is some Inferno WD out there that can actually handle fast melee Elite packs because kiting doesn't do shit against them.Last edit: 2012-05-27 18:07:33 |
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| Ottoxlol May 27 2012 20:08. Posts 566 | Profile Blog # |
| against fast, teleport, charger or leaper mobs i find you have to separate em. I use the standard kite thingy and with wall + spirit walk you can easily get one away from the grp (1-2 deaths usually). My only struggle is when the pack is at the start of the entrance, then I usually skip and I have no idea what to do against mortar, maybe some full dotter build would work better, get haunt and locust? Ive finished act1, solo is ok I had only a couple of elite packs that i couldnt kill, but it was so slow (due to the lack of my gear probably 14k dps/38k hp) that I switched to public games. Everyone likes the full cc build there and I had no games where we did not kill Butcher, I had way more fun then soloing and much faster item farm. |
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| wintergt Belgium. May 27 2012 20:32. Posts 1235 | Profile # |
I'm a bit confused about witch doctors, what they are supposed to be actually. I'm talking for inferno difficulty. You have the monks and barbs, who are melee and as such will tank, then you have the DHs and wizards who are the DPS classes. But what is a witch doctor actually in this picture? You have summons, but they are mostly useless in inferno, you have more CC than the others but the real problem is ofcourse champion packs and CC won't help you there.
I tried a bunch of builds (the VQ one, but man that build sucks for survival as you have to get in melee range constantly, summon-based ones, etc) and finally found one I'm comfortable with in inferno (based on splinter spam). So I did a little gold farming in A1 for AH shopping yesterday so now I'm sitting on 26k hp and 20k dps. And there is still room for improvement, I only have a 680 dps 1-hander, upgrading this will be a major boost. But the thing is, I'm not sure if I should stick with him, or keep him for farming and reroll. Wizards and DHs do more DPS than me with inferior gear compared to mine, obviously I can't tank, I'm just being a ranged fighter which I'm outdone as by the DPS classes.
So I could reroll a DH (appeals to me more) or a wizard (advantage is I can reuse my int-based WH gear), a barbarian looks cool too but you're very very gear dependant in inferno so probably not for now just yet. But anyway, I'm sorry if this post is a bit messy, just writing out my thoughts. What do the other witch doctors out there think about the role of their class in inferno? Last edit: 2012-05-27 20:34:49 |
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| Deadlyhazard United States. May 27 2012 20:36. Posts 1164 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 20:32 wintergt wrote:
I'm a bit confused about witch doctors, what they are supposed to be actually. I'm talking for inferno difficulty. You have the monks and barbs, who are melee and as such will tank, then you have the DHs and wizards who are the DPS classes. But what is a witch doctor actually in this picture? You have summons, but they are mostly useless in inferno, you have more CC than the others but the real problem is ofcourse champion packs and CC won't help you there.
I tried a bunch of builds (the VQ one, but man that build sucks for survival as you have to get in melee range constantly, summon-based ones, etc) and finally found one I'm comfortable with in inferno (based on splinter spam). So I did a little gold farming in A1 for AH shopping yesterday so now I'm sitting on 26k hp and 20k dps. And there is still room for improvement, I only have a 680 dps 1-hander, upgrading this will be a major boost. But the thing is, I'm not sure if I should stick with him, or keep him for farming and reroll. Wizards and DHs do more DPS than me with inferior gear compared to mine, obviously I can't tank, I'm just being a ranged fighter which I'm outdone as by the DPS classes.
So I could reroll a DH (appeals to me more) or a wizard (advantage is I can reuse my int-based WH gear), a barbarian looks cool too but you're very very gear dependant in inferno so probably not for now just yet. But anyway, I'm sorry if this post is a bit messy, just writing out my thoughts. What do the other witch doctors out there think about the role of their class in inferno?
I'd reroll TBQH, I'm finding the WD really disappointing in inferno. They're really not a fun class anymore either because they only have one viable build (splinters). Which is really boring. Wait until they're buffed and have more build options. |
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| Deadlyhazard United States. May 27 2012 20:41. Posts 1164 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 02:27 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:00 Barrin wrote:
Zombie Chargers (Zombie Bears) (lvl 54)
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Vision Quest
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Survival cooldowns & passives
=
very GG... I dare say OP, at least for leveling (not 60 yet).
Don't tell blizzard.
This doesn't work beyond Act I inferno. It works in act III, but in Act IV and II (open-area Act II), the lack of range, how fast it drains your mana and the huge cooldowns on your CCs (Hex with Hedge/Fear with armor, Grasp of the Dead, Wall of Zombies, Spirit Walk + 3sec + passive, etc.) doesn't let you survive at all and continually shoot out DPS
I would argue it's not very good in Act 1 inferno either. Against elite mobs, anyway. |
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| wintergt Belgium. May 27 2012 20:44. Posts 1235 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 20:08 Ottoxlol wrote:
solo is ok I had only a couple of elite packs that i couldnt kill, but it was so slow (due to the lack of my gear probably 14k dps/38k hp) that I switched to public games. Everyone likes the full cc build there and I had no games where we did not kill Butcher, I had way more fun then soloing and much faster item farm.
I think you are going the wrong way in gear here. I read up a bit on builds yesterday to find inspiration for myself and the most succesful WDs all seem to go mad on the DPS. There was a guy with 26k hp and 48k dps for example.
On May 27 2012 20:36 Deadlyhazard wrote:
I'd reroll TBQH, I'm finding the WD really disappointing in inferno. They're really not a fun class anymore either because they only have one viable build (splinters). Which is really boring. Wait until they're buffed and have more build options.
I am actually liking the splinter build now that I have 45% IAS from replacing my rings and amulet, but it is just stupid that I have to play a ranged DPS while not being able to compete in DPS with the real DPS classes :/. |
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| GwSC United States. May 27 2012 21:36. Posts 1776 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 20:44 wintergt wrote:
I think you are going the wrong way in gear here. I read up a bit on builds yesterday to find inspiration for myself and the most succesful WDs all seem to go mad on the DPS. There was a guy with 26k hp and 48k dps for example.
A big part of that is probably weapon damage. I am at 34000 hp, 518 phys resist and 350-400 elemental resists just from gearing up on the AH, no farming yet. Problem is I have not been able to get my hands on a decent weapon that I can afford, so my Damage is only at 18400 from a 670 or so DPS wep. I'm sure someone with that high damage must have one of those insane 1,000+ 1h : (Last edit: 2012-05-27 21:38:16 |
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| wintergt Belgium. May 27 2012 22:14. Posts 1235 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 21:36 GwSC wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 20:44 wintergt wrote:
I think you are going the wrong way in gear here. I read up a bit on builds yesterday to find inspiration for myself and the most succesful WDs all seem to go mad on the DPS. There was a guy with 26k hp and 48k dps for example.
A big part of that is probably weapon damage. I am at 34000 hp, 518 phys resist and 350-400 elemental resists just from gearing up on the AH, no farming yet. Problem is I have not been able to get my hands on a decent weapon that I can afford, so my Damage is only at 18400 from a 670 or so DPS wep. I'm sure someone with that high damage must have one of those insane 1,000+ 1h : (
Yes he had a 1.1k dps 1-hander. That is also the biggest upgrade I can still do, I have a 680 dps 1-hander, but 1k+ starts at 4 million gold on the eu auction house :/.
But still, apart from weapon, it is crazy how much you can up your DPS with selective AH shopping. Yesterday I did five cathedral runs up to skeleton king, not even clearing every nook and cranny, just rushing onward, and from the gold I made I upgraded some gems and shopped, result: my hp stayed the same, but my DPS went from 8.5k to 20.5k ! :D |
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| Esoterikk Canada. May 27 2012 22:20. Posts 333 | Profile Blog # |
I am actually liking the splinter build now that I have 45% IAS from replacing my rings and amulet, but it is just stupid that I have to play a ranged DPS while not being able to compete in DPS with the real DPS classes :/.
Yea I made a DH for this reason, If I am going to play a one button spam I might as well do it on a class that does it it well, at least until they fix mana and pets. |
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| Ottoxlol May 27 2012 22:45. Posts 566 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2012 21:36 GwSC wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 20:44 wintergt wrote:
I think you are going the wrong way in gear here. I read up a bit on builds yesterday to find inspiration for myself and the most succesful WDs all seem to go mad on the DPS. There was a guy with 26k hp and 48k dps for example.
A big part of that is probably weapon damage. I am at 34000 hp, 518 phys resist and 350-400 elemental resists just from gearing up on the AH, no farming yet. Problem is I have not been able to get my hands on a decent weapon that I can afford, so my Damage is only at 18400 from a 670 or so DPS wep. I'm sure someone with that high damage must have one of those insane 1,000+ 1h : (
This. I finished hell a couple of days ago and I still have a lot lvl50> gear, and 670 dps xbow(!:D) Hence the 13k dps. My problem is that I don't see that 30k dps would help against mortar/teleport, or when there is no space to kite. Other packs I can already solo act1, act2 is a different story :D.
In groups the cc is very valuable I think, for instance I found that confusion works wonders on a couple of mobs. The white Enslaved Thralls (not sure about the name, they are the ones that are humaniods but if you don't kill em fast enough transform into demons) kill champions in 7-8 hits, maybe its a bug or something but its working very nicely. Wall/grasp is always helpful for a wizard or when monks/barbs out of cds and want to retreat a bit. The hex works wonders, everyone likes 30% +dmg. I am rolling the -20% passive too, making monks job easier on champion packs. |
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| Dommk Australia. May 28 2012 02:23. Posts 4462 | Profile # |
Is it even worth getting defensive stats?
I say this because as I'm progressing into ACT3 Inferno, it just doesn't feel worth it at all...I'm pretty much trying to live between Ghost Walk cooldowns, but stacking a ton of defensive gear isn't going to make it easier, sure I'll survive another hit or two but given the cooldown, I need to be able to take much more than an extra hit but no matter how hard I try build my Resist and Vit, it just isn't going to happen...
Darts + Grasp + Wall feels like the only viable build deep into Inferno, you just can't get close at all..
Right now I'm trying to see what virtually every successful Witch Doctor is doing, and the vast majority of them by far have just gone all out DPS, living on Ghost Walk and Spirit Vessel alone.
The worst part about it is that it freaking blows, you either kill something in a few seconds or die, repeatedly and it doesn't look like it will change.
The further I get into Inferno the more I realize this isn't the class I'd thought it would be :|
Witch Doctor was super fun in Hell and Inferno Act1, but everything I found really fun and intersting about the WD just starts to stuck tremendously in ACT2, specifically: Zombie Dogs, Sacrifice, Grave Injustice, Gargantuan and long duration CC's like Mass Confusion and Horrify (60-80% CC reduction on elites make them garbage)Last edit: 2012-05-28 02:31:13 |
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| HolyArrow United States. May 28 2012 05:28. Posts 6302 | Profile Blog # |
| What kind of equipment do you guys recommend for a WD running Inferno? I'm currently doing loot runs and basically saving money from the AH to buy some really nice equipment for my WD. Initially, I was going to focus on Int/Vit/Attack speed%/Extra Damage to really get my DPS up there while having a fair amount of HP, but my friend mentioned that building up all your Resistances is crucial to survival in Inferno (more important than Vitality), so I'm not sure what kind of items I should be looking for anymore for an endgame WD. |
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| Poopfeast Netherlands. May 28 2012 05:57. Posts 128 | Profile # |
On May 28 2012 05:28 HolyArrow wrote:
What kind of equipment do you guys recommend for a WD running Inferno? I'm currently doing loot runs and basically saving money from the AH to buy some really nice equipment for my WD. Initially, I was going to focus on Int/Vit/Attack speed%/Extra Damage to really get my DPS up there while having a fair amount of HP, but my friend mentioned that building up all your Resistances is crucial to survival in Inferno (more important than Vitality), so I'm not sure what kind of items I should be looking for anymore for an endgame WD.
Past act 1 the bear spamming VQ build doesn't work anymore. You need attackspeed 'machinegun' WD. Stack int and vit and put move speed on boots and atk speed on gloves/weapon/ring/amulet.
It's all about kiting in A3 and A4. Got about 52K dps unbuffed with splinters 1h/mojoLast edit: 2012-05-28 05:57:22 |
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| udgnim United States. May 28 2012 08:26. Posts 6523 | Profile Blog # |
has anyone run Toad of Hugeness as part of their Splinters build? I'm probably going to try it out later today and see if it swallows elites for the duration of time that the Toad is up. Hex has been a huge live saver for me Inferno and I hope Toad of Hugeness can have a similar effect with easing the pressure of elites chasing me.
after trying out Mass Confusion, its fun to use against trash but its effect doesn't last long against elites. I haven't tried Horrify in a while, but I'm guess its fear effect doesn't last very long against Elites. |
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| Hadraziel France. May 28 2012 12:08. Posts 111 | Profile # |
| I have been using firebomb with the "roll the bones" rune to add aoe to my splinters build, and I have been farming significantly faster. You only need to hit 3 enemies with firebomb to outdps the splinters, and with a manacost of 10 it can be spammed without vision quest. |
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| trifecta United States. May 28 2012 12:08. Posts 834 | Profile # |
On May 28 2012 08:26 udgnim wrote:
has anyone run Toad of Hugeness as part of their Splinters build? I'm probably going to try it out later today and see if it swallows elites for the duration of time that the Toad is up. Hex has been a huge live saver for me Inferno and I hope Toad of Hugeness can have a similar effect with easing the pressure of elites chasing me.
after trying out Mass Confusion, its fun to use against trash but its effect doesn't last long against elites. I haven't tried Horrify in a while, but I'm guess its fear effect doesn't last very long against Elites.
horrify is okay as a last resort while you're waiting for spirit walk/grasp/wall cooldowns |
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| Lynzh Korea (North). May 28 2012 18:41. Posts 17 | Profile # |
I cleared A1 Inferno yesterday on my WD and the spec I am using is a pet tank spec with my main dps comming from Snake To The Face
My build looks like this
Spirit Walk - 15% mana/sec
Soul Harvest - 2171 health/mob
Locust Swarm - 468%/8sec
Gargantuan - Enraged with 120sec cd
Snake Dart - 30% stun/1.5sec
Grasp of the Dead - 80% slow
Passives
Fierce Loyalty - Pet gains 100% of ur life regen
Bad Medicine - Poison damage makes mobs do 20% less damage
Jungle Fortitude - You and pet takes 20% less dmg
With these passives, gargantuan tank and templar tank (specced for healing you) you will breeze through most if not all normal mobs on Inferno, some champion packs will be very very hard nonetheless and their tanking abilities will be bursts of help rather than staying power which they have on normal mobs.
This build has proven to me to be very effective for taking down normal mobs AND champion packs, when I get to the champ packs the gargantuan becomes less viable and most of my dmg comes from snake to the face, spirit walk is essential for teleport mobs aswell as soul harvest to regain health when you need it.
When faced with teleporting champs I spirit walk, soul harvest for health and put LS(locust swarm) on one champion, LS will jump to the other champions and you put down grasp of the dead to slow them, move abit far away and start nuking. You can basicly nuke with snake dart when the champions are at the end of your screen.
When faced with champions who teleport you to them I find that kiting them around trees works very very well as the grabbing move will try and move you directly to them, a bug will appear where you are just nudged up against the tree. The champions tried to grab you and you are not in their melee. Win - win.
When faced with champions in narrow hallways the gargantuan starts to shine again because your pet tank and the templar will act as a wall while you can stay on range and just pump out the damage.
My WD has 14k damage without 5 stacks of SH(Soul Harvest) 33k HP and around ~200 resist. For this build to be effective you must have a fast one hander to be able to get the most out of Snake to the Face, 30% chance to stun for 1.5sec
Sitting on 2.38 atk speed I can almost chain stun most champions, when chain stun fails I SW, SH and put up locust, summon gargantuan, he enrages and tanks & repeat.
To be honest I had to skip some champ packs like the ones with Immune minions and not immune champion, these can be kited if you have a lot of space but in narrow hallways like the ones before the butcher they are almost impossible
Most champion packs are doable with the exception of Invulnerable minions.
Idk if I forgot something, I have not read the whole thread but the common argument seems to be that the gargantuan is useless in inferno, and he is not.
Tbh I didnt solo the butcher in A1 as I have little damage and too much survivability. |
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| Daray May 28 2012 19:37. Posts 2953 | Profile # |
Blah im kinda disappointed with WD. Farming inferno butcher, cleared act2. Most of the skills are just terrible and have no use because you need Vision Quest to actually use any of the big damage aoe spells and VQ is bad design cause you need to have it enabled all the time so you dont have any control over your big cd spells like Fetish Army and Big Bad Voodoo. So you're stuck shooting splinters all day and getting all the CC spells like grasp, zombie wall and horrify. All the fights are the same and all the champion packs are the same aswell, you use all your cc spells smartly and stutter step while shooting splinters wtf? Maybe once you get sick gear you could do something else but what's point when it doesn't matter what you do when you get really good gear. Im at 27k dps, 37k health, cant remember res.
Im really interested if people have figured out any other builds that work in solo inferno act2+ |
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