LClick: Cleave+Reaping Swing - I've been primarily using my main attack as a Fury generator to set everything else up. Frenzy seemed nice on Normal, but I've been liking Cleave way more in Nightmare. Frenzy seems too reliant on getting stacks, which means you get boned hard against monsters that can put distance between you (Fear, Freezing, Knockback, etc.) or monsters that force you to run around (Plagued, Arcane, etc.) because you end up dropping stacks really often. Haven't tried Bash that much, though I might play around with it for a while.
RClick: Whirlwind+Blood Funnel - Whirlwind is definitely the most fun of the Fury spenders. I've also seen a lot of people report success with Rend, but I haven't played around with the Rend runes enough to say for sure.
Ground Stomp+Wrenching Smash - Stun+vortex effect in 24 yards really helps to set up Whirlwind AoE.
Leap+Iron Impact - I really like this one. Leap and Furious Charge both seem like decent gap-closers to use, but I like the double utility of using Leap's 3x bonus armor as a defensive cooldown.
Ignore Pain+Ignorance is Bliss - Didn't use this one for a while, but it's been SO good in Nightmare. The Mob Rule rune seems absolutely awesome for parties as well.
Revenge+Best Served Cold - I like the crit bonus, but I have a hard time fitting Revenge into my skillset with so many other options.
Overpower+Killing Spree - Whirlwind+Overpower has some pretty clear synergies. First off, Overpower is one of the few offensive skills you can use without interrupting your spinning. Second is the obvious: Whirlwind hits lots of things really fast, so you crit more often and get Overpower back off CD really quickly. The Momentum rune seems to feed into this really well, since a big Overpower could keep your spin going for a long time.
Weapon Throw - The skill itself seems really good, but the runes all seem mediocre except for Dread Bomb. I'm definitely going to try some Dread Bomb builds when I get there.
Battle Rage+Marauder's Rage - Pretty huge damage boost, though not very flashy. The Into the Fray rune also seems to feed into the Whirlwind+Overpower Crit+Fury engine really well. Ultimates - My opinion is mixed on these in general. They all feel really powerful, but managing the 2 minute CD makes it really awkward with random rares/uniques and not necessarily having it off CD. For bosses it's good (though somewhat short), but through Nightmare so far, Bosses have been less of a concern than random uniques/rares.
What have other people been using?
EDIT: Brief summary/minigude based on discussion so far:
Primary - Cleave or Frenzy, depending on what skills you complement them with. Cleave is most reliable with Broad Sweep. Frenzy can be taken with Smite or Maniac--Sidearm and Triumph are also both useable at low levels. In Inferno, Frenzy is significantly more popular, given the much higher demand for reliable single-target damage against champs/elites, as well as the fact that Revenge provides sufficient AoE ability.
Fury spender - All have their place depending on playstyle and build (though Rend is pretty underwhelming). You don't even have to run one at all (many don't, particularly when it comes to bosses).
Core Utility (stuff that pretty much everyone agrees is good) Leap+Iron Impact - Gap closer, defensive CD, escape. With this rune, Leap is probably one of your most versatile skills. The only real alternative to this is Furious Charge, which is a little less flexible, but provides comparable survivability from the heal when positioned correctly, and does much more damage.
Revenge - Also very well-rounded. It's sizeable AoE damage, while also giving you a heal, and the rune options let you tailor it to a lot of playstyles. Particularly on later difficulties, this skill is 100% core to a Barbarian's survival.
Ground Stomp+Wrenching Smash - Both for soloing and for parties, this skill is great. The stun helps protect allies/control enemies, and it sets up AoE from anyone really well.
War Cry+Impunity - Great party buff, and not too bad solo either. The resist boost is basically required in Inferno. Note that 50% resists means 1.5x your current resist values, so Impunity isn't that good unless you've already got some decent resist gear. Invigorate is also a decent buff earlier on if you don't have Impunity yet.
Other Stuff (stuff that can be really good that different people have and haven't used)
Ignore Pain - Insane defensive CD. Depends on whether you feel you need it, since it's purely defensive. Generally also gets extremely good mileage in party scenarios, due to the ability to put it on everyone.
Furious Charge+Dreadnought - See above with Leap. Less defensive utility, but the healing is really good.
Battle Rage - Damage. Not much more to say.
Threatening Shout+Demoralize - If you're full-on tanking, having a taunt makes your life a whole lot easier. Pretty much worthless if you're soloing though.
Earthquake/Wrath of the Berserker - These are a mixed bag. They can be fantastic if they fit your playstyle, and really awkward if they don't.
Passives For the most part, Barbarian passives need to be on the defensive side. Earlier difficulties allow more leeway with regard to passive choices, but by Hell and Inferno, you should expect to be using double or triple defense passives.
Nerves of Steel, Superstition, Tough as Nails, Relentless - the core defense passives. Superstition stands out from them, but still mixing and matching these is mostly up to what your gear looks like and your playstyle. Relentless gets less reliable in Inferno when dealing with sizeable burst damage.
Berserker Rage - The passive that makes the no-Fury spender build work. You don't have to play with this passive if you're not using Fury spenders, but its a pretty significant boost to your damage.
Juggernaut - It may be hard to justify carrying this around all the time, but having this fall-back against Freeze/Jailer/Nightmarish/etc. is actually really really nice.
Last edit: 2012-05-26 02:25:08
Tongfu icon until xiao8's back on a ganker role.
Typhon United States. May 18 2012 04:13. Posts 381
Level 22 so far, so this is just from Act 1-2 Normal:
1 Ground Stomp - I imagine most builds benefit from Stun/Vortex. 2 Leap - Normal difficult is easy, Leap + Charge just to get into battles quickly and set up positioning for stomp. 3 Charge - see above 4 Situational - Usually Revenge
L - Cleave just clears so fast compared to Bash or Frenzy, especially when you clump everything with Ground Stomp. R - No particular preference, so Earthquake for now. 1/2/Cleave pretty much kills anything quickly enough. I've actually been running Berserker Rage since I don't really use any Fury-consuming skills
I'm liking Cleave as the fury generator as well, tried Frenzy and had the same reaction, it's fun sometimes but maintaining stacks starts to get annoying later one.
I'm loving Leap with Iron Impact + Revenge, along with cleave it really destroys large packs. I started with the Crit Rune for Revenge but switched to the biggeer health boost for survivability.
For the rage spender I'm using Hammer of the Ancients. I've considering switching, but I have plently of AoE already and it does quite a bit of damage with the rune that lowers it's AoE, so it's useful for bosses/elites.
I got Battle Rage as well for the huge damage boost and for the "UItimate" I've been using the Steroids one that I forgot the name. It really helps when you get a hard combination on a Champion and obviously on bosses. I still don't have the best runes for it though, the first one is very lackluster.
For passives, the crit one (Ruthlesness?), Weapon Mastery and I've been trying diferent things for the last slot, still waiting for better alternatives on later levels.
I'm around level 35 in Act II NM. I'll probally start worrying a bit more about survivability later, so far most decisions have been based just on the most satisfying way to hit things.
Been waiting for this thread . Barb gets much less love than any other class imo. I am at the same progress as you Yango, just finished ACT 1 Nightmare. I run DW from half way of Normal. My build was: this build is for soloing mainly + Show Spoiler +
LM: Bash+Punish for nice DPS and overall 18% dps increase. I aslo use Cleave like half of the time as well. RM: WW + Hurrican
1: Ground Stomp + Wreching Smash: Mass stun and a pull, this set up perfectly for WW 2: Leap + Iron Impack: Since I am DW I need Iron Impact to survive when I am WW 3: Vengence + Vengeance is Mine: Massive heal, and good DPS too 4: EW
I think GS and Leap is a must for almost any Barb build, EW is not so much if you are gonna group up. This build works fine in NW, was a breeze in Normal.
I've recently change my build a bit (since I am switching to 1H+shield) to an auto attack build since I was rely too much on WW to do damage and having some difficult time with rare/elite. I ultilize Berserker Rage passive in my new build. Change RM to Ingnore Pain + Ignorance is Bliss since I want my Fury at max as long as possible replacing RM with something that doesn't need Fury is the main point.
Now I need to re-gear to "Life on Hit" and Attack Spd item to see how this build really does.
Last edit: 2012-05-18 04:46:40
TheYango United States. May 18 2012 04:36. Posts 15758
I'm using Weapons Master, Animosity, and swapping around the last slot. A lot of the mid-level passives seem pretty mediocre, though with all these random elemental mobs in NM, I might try Superstition.
I'm also really tempted to try a Relentless+Whirlwind+4 defensive skills build.
Tongfu icon until xiao8's back on a ganker role.
kethers United States. May 18 2012 04:43. Posts 454
I am also in Act II in NM as a barbarian. My Primary is still set to Frenzy as it gives decent damage when I single target DPS, my secondary is Whirlwind for obvious AoE purposes.
I also love the Iron Impact Leap. It is such a good ability with short cd. I don't think I'll ever replace it. Especially into the harder stages, it scales amazingly as it scales by percentage of armor.
Revenge is also another which I don't think I'll replace, especially once you get the rune for 30% proc chance. It does a hefty amount of AoE damage as well as a much needed heal if you're going to be in the mix of things.
The rest are pretty situational.
Also I'm beginning to like 1H + Shield more and more. I found out that dual wielding doesn't give as huge of a DPS as I had thought. I started out dual-wielding, but then switched to 2H and finally with shield. 2Hjust seems really slowwww, even though its better for high dmg/crit and percentbage based skills. But, the huge armor and stats you get with a shield is really beneficial, you basically trade minor DPS for a huge amount of armor (comparing to dual-wield), which I prefer.
I'm tempted to try the max fury build, with the passive that gives you +25% damage. It may be enough to offset the lack of the heavy hitters and you are able to get more utility/defensive skills, overpower seems a possibility then. Has anyone tried something like that?
KaiserReinhard United States. May 18 2012 04:49. Posts 509
Rend is pretty awesome. my combo for grinding is jump in + 300% armor, then stomp to pull everyone closer to me and then Rend plus range just hurts with a two hander. I got a 56 mighty blow doing that once.
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -George Carlin
intrigue Washington, D.C. May 18 2012 05:17. Posts 9273
lvl 34, act2 nightmare (seems like we're all here lol?)
i just switched to a really tanky setup last night (so awesome how you change your build completely) when i was the only tank with 3 squishies. ignore pain on 1, leap with the 300% armor on 2, the pulling stomp on 3, and call of the ancients/revenge on 4.
m1 is bash with the rune for stacking and m2 is ww. also yeah i love 1handed + shield now too. wonder if i can just have 2 shields...
Last edit: 2012-05-18 05:18:09
TL Premium Gold User! http://castlesmusic.net
kethers United States. May 18 2012 05:49. Posts 454
Was wondering if fellow TLers want to post any special BS plans they have for rares and legendaries for their regions. Since TL is awesome, maybe we can have a list and we can craft some gears for each other
All we have to do, provided the region is the same, is to add on Bnet and join a co-op game together and provide the materials.
I'm level 26, currently just stacking anything that gives better DPS. My follower is the Templar, he is setup to heal as much as possible. LClick - Cleave with Reaping Swing RClick - Whirlwind with Dust Devils 1 - Sprint with Rush 2 - Battle Rage 3 - Revenge with Best Served Cold 4 - Call of the Ancients Passive - Berserker Rage, Bloodthirst
Basically this is the build i use to run through the levels, for boss fights I do frenzy and other single target skills. The goal is to generally have max rage for the damage boost while only stopping to fight enemies in large groups.
Sprint Rush is nice to have when exploring the map for dungeon entrances and such. The low cost of of this ability allows me to spam it, and with cleave I generally get back to full rage after one swing (I don't start attacking mobs until I have a nice group of them rounded up). With the dodge bonus it gives me I get a bit more survivability when up against a bunch of mobs.
Whirlwind isn't something I use often or at all, you could probably use another shout here, but with Bloodthirst I think it could come in handy if I need to output a ton of damage to get back some health.
Battle Rage is just awesome for DPS when combined with Berserker Rage.
Revenge is amazing, when I'm looking for better survivability I rune it with Vengeance is Mine, otherwise I really do like the crit chance. When you're getting smacked around by a ton of mobs then this thing pops all the time, add in the fact that it doesn't cost rage, hits in AOE really freaking hard, and heals you. Its just freaking awesome.
Call of the Ancients is just kind of fun, but I bet a more useful skill could be used.
Currently in Act 2 Normal (around level 24 i Think).
I have LC: Cleave (+ fury gen) RC: WhirlWind
1: Leap (+300) 2: Battle Rage 3: Ancient Spear (3 of them) 4: Earthquake (for that pack of rares once in a while :D)
Passive: Weapons master and ruthless.
Lots of DPS. Just Leap in, Battle rage, Ancient Spear for extra fury and the WW the shit out of everything. Find yourself in trouble? Earthquake..... BOOM.
Last edit: 2012-05-18 06:21:37
GIVE ME COMMAND - Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com - @Sc2Aligulac - "I don't want Losira to go through because he is Zerg, but because he is Losira, he transcends all race" - TheBB
Primary Skills Bash “Generate: 6 Fury per attack Brutally smash an enemy for 150% weapon damage with a 20% chance to Knockback.”
Thoughts: Unless you have a crazy use for knockback or lots of fury, I don’t see much use for bash. It seems like it’s just worse single target dps than frenzy. Though, I will say, with a dagger and the improved fury generation rune, you’re close to able to generate enough fury to keep “Wrath of the Berserker” with the higher duration runestone up for as long as you’re in melee (12 fury per hit * 1.5 hits/sec *1.25 atk speed from WotB = 22.5 fury/sec). Even then it seems weak, though, and the knockback would work against you. Cleave “Generate: 5 Fury per attack
Swing your weapon in a wide arc to deal 120% weapon damage to all enemies caught in the swing. ”
Thoughts: This is an awesome skill. I’m tempted to say I can’t imagine playing without it. You just do so much AE damage at times when enemies come in big packs. In particular, I like the exploding rune.
Frenzy “Generate: 3 Fury per attack
Swing for 110% weapon damage. Frenzy attack speed increases by 15% with each swing. This effect can stack up to 5 times for a total bonus of 75% attack speed. ”
Thoughts: Best single target fury generator available. Great in boss fights. Runestone which gives another 20% damage bump on top of it. Great skill.
Secondary Skills Hammer of the Ancients “Cost: 20 Fury
Call forth a massive hammer to smash enemies directly in front of you for 200% weapon damage. Hammer of the Ancients has a 5% increased Critical Hit Chance. ”
Thoughts: I used this for a while early on. It didn’t seem like it hit in a very wide range like cleave – so I stopped using it. Maybe I missed something here though.
Rend “Cost: 20 Fury
A sweeping strike causes all nearby enemies to Bleed for 209% weapon damage as Physical over 3 seconds. ”
Thoughts: I mean, it isn’t that this skill is bad – but if you just want to hit one target it’s worse than frenzy, if you want to hit a ton of targets you can cleave things down a lot sooner than 3 seconds – so I could only see it useful in situations where there’s one enemy you wanna focus on but some other stuff you want to die as well. This isn’t very good imo.
Seismic Slam “Cost: 30 Fury
Slam the ground and cause a wave of destruction that deals 155% weapon damage and Knockback to targets in a 45 yard arc. ”
Thoughts: I’ll be honest. I’ve never used this. But there’s a reason – I’m playing a melee character – why would I want to deal damage to a bunch of things and knock them back? If I’m killing something, I want the thing to die sooner so I can get a health globe. If I’m knocking them back, it’s because there’s too much around me and I want to be killing that instead. The damage, you’ll note, is also not *that* high compared to cleave and charge.
Whirlwind “Cost: 16 Fury
Deliver multiple attacks to everything in your path for 110% weapon damage. ”
Thoughts: I want to like this ability. I really do. But it doesn’t deal *that* much damage (and the numbers being so small is kinda demoralizing tbh), you move real slow, and you consume fury really, really fast. I wanted to keep it and use it, but eventually I just couldn’t.
Smash the ground, stunning all enemies within 12 yards for 4 seconds. ”
Thoughts: I don’t think I consider this a must-have (especially since at higher difficulty I’m sure the stun will be shorter), but I used it for a long time with the larger area + pull runestone, and I really liked how easily you could set up major cleaving with it. It’s not going to be in my lategame arsenal, but I had some fun with it.
Leap “Generate: 15 Fury Cooldown: 10 seconds
Leap into the air, dealing 85% weapon damage to all enemies within 8 yards of your destination and slowing their movement speed by 60% for 3 seconds. ”
Thoughts: You’re doing something wrong if you don’t have this with the armor runestone imo. So good at getting you out of sticky situations – and raising your armor so that they’re harder to get into. The damage is minimal, and the slow is pretty irrelevant – but the armor and mobility make this skill one of my favorites.
Sprint “16 Cost: 20 Fury
Increase movement speed by 40% for 3 seconds. ”
Thoughts: Another skill that I wanted to like, but couldn’t. I thought the difference would be more noticeable – and it just isn’t. Most of my combat maneuvering is done by charging and leaping anyway, so I don’t really see much value to this – maybe some type of throwing build could use this?
Ignore Pain “Cooldown: 30 seconds
Reduces all damage taken by 65% for 5 seconds. ”
Thoughts: I like this. It has a nice synergy with leap, too. Leap -> Ignore pain as the armor buff wears -> Leap is back up as Ignore Pain fades. Really nice defensively. Obviously, though, investing here means you have fewer skills to invest in damage/utility.
Might Skills Ancient Spear “Generate: 15 Fury Cooldown: 10 seconds
Throw a spear to pull an enemy back to you, briefly slowing the target's movement by 60% and dealing 185% weapon damage. ”
Thoughts: This isn’t something I use, though I can see why you’d want to. Be it treasure goblins, wasps or casters, things that run away are freaking annoying. This gives you a way to get to the enemy without running into the next room. Again, though, I can’t say I use this. Normally there’s enough to hit.
Revenge “Revenge has a 15% chance to become active each time you are hit.
Inflict 220% weapon damage to all nearby enemies. You heal 5.0% of your maximum Life for each enemy hit. ”
Thoughts: In just about the last level, I’ve come to love this skill – though I’ve had it for a long time. Big damage and healing for getting hit – which is what you’re doing anyway. I love this skill for large packs of enemies.
Rush forward knocking back enemies and inflicting 195% weapon damage to enemies along the path of the charge. ”
Thoughts: This *feels* strictly better than whirlwind to me. It deals more damage, deals it faster, moves you around to avoid getting surrounded faster, and generates – rather than consuming – fury. I’d imagine with the reduced CD runestone, you can use this more often than you can use Whirlwind due to Fury restrictions.
Overpower “Cooldown: 15 seconds
Deal 165% weapon damage to all targets within 9 yards. Landing a Critical Hit has a chance to lower the cooldown by 1 second. ”
Thoughts: This reminds me of Revenge, but it has a CD instead of being activated on proc, deals less damage, and doesn’t heal. I think all things considered, I’ll stick with revenge. Maybe some crazy AE heavy build could use this, too.
Tactics Skills Ancient Spear “Cost: 10 Fury
Hurl a throwing weapon at an enemy for 100% weapon damage and Slow the movement of the enemy by 60% for 2 seconds. ”
Thoughts: This doesn’t look like it deals much damage, and it costs fury. I’m not sure why someone would use this (other than the novelty of being a “throwing barbarian”). Maybe if there were a ranged Primary I’d look at this differently.
Shout with great ferocity, reducing damage done by enemies within 25 yards by 20% for 15 seconds. ”
Thoughts: I don’t see a lot of use for this. If you’re looking to reduce damage, you could use leap or ignore pain. I guess this could be more useful in fights that last more than a minute or so and have pretty constant damage. I don’t think I’d get this. It has a 3 second taunt on it, but 3 seconds is pretty short – and more of the time just whacking something in the face is a sufficient “taunt” anyway. Battle Rage “Cost: 20 Fury
Enter a rage which increases damage by 15% and Critical Hit Chance by 3% for 30 seconds. ”
Thoughts: Great skill. Constant 15% damage and more with the runestone. Provided I want to deal damage, this seems as good as it gets.
War Cry “Generate: 30 Fury Cooldown: 30 seconds
Unleash a rallying cry to increase Armor for you and all allies within 50 yards by 20% for 60 seconds. ”
Thoughts: Another great skill. Not so much for the 20% armor as the 50% resistance bonus you get from one of the top tier runestones. I’d be willing to bet if this plays anything like D2 at high levels you’ll want this buff up all the time.
Rage Skills Thoughts: These all have 2 minute cooldowns, cost 50 rage, and have effects which expire after a short period of time. I have not played around with them, but short of being world-ending – I can’t see using them. Notable Passive Skills This is a list of passives which have deeper implication and possibility for discussion. The type which give additional armor, for instance, are not included here.
Weapons Master “Gain a bonus based on the weapon type of your main hand weapon: Swords/Daggers: 15% increased damage Maces/Axes: 10% Critical Hit Chance Polearms/Spears: 10% attack speed Mighty Weapons: 3 Fury per hit.”
Thoughts: If a person really, really wanted to make Whirlwind work, here’s how you’d do it. You’d take this passive, and always use a Mighty Weapon. That way, all your small attacks would generate enough Fury to keep Whirlwind going (assuming it works that way). Aside from that, this is at least a 5% damage bump, and probably more than that. Good benchmark for what is “good”. Berserker Rage “You inflict an additional 25% damage while at maximum Fury.” Thoughts: This passive is way better than you’d think. Look up at the above lists. You’ll notice – most of the things I liked generated, rather than spent, fury (or if they spent, they only spent occasionally). This does two things. First, it makes your fury generators hit even harder than they did before provided you can avoid fury degeneration. Second, it adds a hidden cost to anything which costs fury – you’ll be running without the additional +25% damage bonus for a while. But then, as I did here, when you look at what you spend fury on – you won’t find much that looks good. I like this – a lot. Unforgiving “You no longer degenerate Fury. Instead, you gain 1 Fury every 2 seconds.” Thoughts: Outright fury generation – but also can be used with Berserker Rage above to keep this buff up nearly all the time. The trick here is that it’s always good to go in with a full bar of fury. Either because you spend it, or for the buff.
1:Leap with armour buff. 2: Stomp with damage 3: Revenge with proc chance buff(to 30% activation) 4:War Cry with bonus hp and regen mouse 1: Frenzy with heal on kill mouse 2: rend with heal
This make you take a bit of a backseat on dps but makes you a hell of a lot harder to kill. Bearing in mind i've been hit by random elites in act 1 hell for up to 12k...and seen pure str barbs on 11k hp get one shotted lol.
For passives I've been dabbling just to see what feels right. Using 3% lifesteal, Inspiring presence(this basically makes war cry give me a bonus 400 hp per second), and then a choice for 3rd depending on situation.
archon256 United States. May 18 2012 06:54. Posts 360
The nice thing about Rend (and other DoT spells) is that they do their damage in conjunction with other spells. So you shouldn't be comparing 1 cast of Rend to 1 cast of Cleave, you should be comparing 1 Rend + N-1 Cleaves vs. N Cleaves, where N is the number of attacks you can do in 3 seconds. Since each Rend does more damage over the period than 1 Cleave, the former will do more damage. And that's without taking into consideration the fact that Rend hits everything around you, while Cleave only hits in an arc. So you can use Rend to weaken a mob and then finish them off with Rupture for the death procs.
"The troupe is ready, the stage is set. I come to dance, the dance of death"
I just played for about an hour with the max fury build, and it just feels way smoother than playing with Fury spenders. I think the real clincher is that without having to devote any runes or abilities to fury generation, you can get a LOT more damage in through other other abilities, not just the 25% advertised damage.
On May 18 2012 06:54 archon256 wrote: The nice thing about Rend (and other DoT spells) is that they do their damage in conjunction with other spells. So you shouldn't be comparing 1 cast of Rend to 1 cast of Cleave, you should be comparing 1 Rend + N-1 Cleaves vs. N Cleaves, where N is the number of attacks you can do in 3 seconds. Since each Rend does more damage over the period than 1 Cleave, the former will do more damage. And that's without taking into consideration the fact that Rend hits everything around you, while Cleave only hits in an arc. So you can use Rend to weaken a mob and then finish them off with Rupture for the death procs.
The thing is, Rend is a Fury spender. If you're playing with Berserker Rage, it means those Cleaves will be doing reduced damage due to you not being at maxed Fury. So overall, the damage is still not going to be that much better, and arguably not worth using a skill slot that could be used for another utility skill.
I suppose it comes down to whether you feel a passive slot for Berserker Rage is better than an active slot for Rend. Personally though, I always felt that I couldn't pick enough good passives, and that I felt a slot or two short of getting all the active skills I wanted, so the tradeoff for ditching Fury spenders seems worth it.
Last edit: 2012-05-18 07:40:35
Tongfu icon until xiao8's back on a ganker role.
TheYango United States. May 18 2012 07:39. Posts 15758