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[G] Map Pool Creation Guide

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 1 2 3 All
 
 Diamond   United States. May 19 2012 05:57. Posts 9005
Profile Blog # 
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Map Pools. The most overlooked aspect yet most important aspect in Starcraft II. A map pool can change everything about a tournament. As much as people hate comparisons to Brood War, maps are very much the same, just with new tricks and features the new editor allows. To quote the effect maps had on Brood War I quote Liquipedia


Custom-made Maps are the bread and butter of competitive StarCraft. Without frequent exchange of maps to accomodate for trends and shifts in the meta game, the incredibly dynamic evolution of StarCraft progaming arguably could not have happened.


However in Starcraft II the rotation of maps has changed. While in both games it's true the good maps lasted longer then others (Metalopolis, Destination, etc) the lack of rotation of old or bad maps has changed. There is a great deal of factors such as ladder, however in the end tournaments can dictate the maps people play, and push the scene ahead, however this has not happened. Instead tournaments rely on map pools that other tournaments did, and it seems that maybe a lot of organizers do not understand building a pool.

Want to make a map pool that's good awesome? One that I won't complain on Twitter about? Read this.

Please note in this guide, all my sample pools are five maps, this is detailed why below, but also just is so I can save some time. Also this guide DOES NOT cover team league map pools, which I have little experience with, only individual leagues. For those that do not know, I own and run the ESV Map team, so many of the sample pools contain heavily ESV maps, this is not saying these are the exact maps that could be used, just the ones I personally know best.

Last warning is these are my opinions, they tend to be right in the long run, but just a fair warning.

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Ask a mapmaker! They are all accesible! They want to help you and present thier product and your tournament the best. In fact here is links on how to contact them right here on TL. I assure you they will be really helpful!

ESV Map Team: Click Here
Crux Map Team (GSL Mapmakers): Click Here
TPW Map Team: Click Here

Additionally some players have offered to provide their opinions on your map pool on SoTG, this is how to contact them. If you are a pro player that wants to be on this list let me know:

Liquid`Tyler: Click Here
Liquid`Sheth: Click Here

If you are a big enough tournament, just ask all your players, it will get lots of constructive stuff.

This is my no means 100% complete, but I think it should provide some good direction.
Last edit: 2012-05-19 17:09:58
Check out ESV TV at http://www.esvtv.com ****** TaeJa, he's pretty good.
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 Diamond   United States. May 19 2012 11:29. Posts 9005
Profile Blog # 
Let me know what you think of this !
Check out ESV TV at http://www.esvtv.com ****** TaeJa, he's pretty good.
Old Post

 
 DYEAlabaster   Canada. May 19 2012 12:10. Posts 992
Profile Blog # 
Great Read Diamond, I agree with most points raised, HOWEVER, I feel that the average map pool has 4 map types, rather than three.

1- Rush Maps
Ohana, Antiga
2- Standard Maps
Daybreak, Entombed
3- Macro Maps
Metropolis, Whirwind
4- Strategy Maps
Cloud Kingdom
Strategy maps are those that require you to play differently from any standard game. Another example could be Crossfire LE. These maps are great, innovative, but need to be cycled out of map pools relatively quickly (after 2, max 3 seasons), because you figure out the way to play the map and this ruins both the quality of games and the balance of the map (Crossfire is the obvious example of an overstayed welcome, but CKLE is fast approaching this state as well).

If a tournament keeps a standard 3 (or perhaps 4) maps fitting into all the other categories, they can tamper with this map the most. Which means that map makers can innovate most with the non-standard map, meaning it's win-win for everyone

In my opinion, having 4 maps is a golden standard because it has one of each map type. Having 5 is ok because you can put in 1 more map into one of the primary 3 categories depending on what you are lacking (for example, in a pool of Daybreak, Metropolis, Ohana, and CKLE, you have all four maps with easy cheese due to spawning patterns, so throwing in a Whirwind might help. If you take out Daybreak and put in Entombed, you can put in a different rush map, for instance.

Anyway, those are my thoughts <3
Great write up Dia
 
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 -orb-   United States. May 19 2012 12:18. Posts 5664
Profile Blog # 
Awesome read, thanks Diamond. Great 8k post. I hope all tournaments take note!

One thing I disagreed with, however:


7 Maps:
The golden standard of Starcraft II. For the longest time I personally believed this was the best way to do a pool. Allows for a BO7 with no repeats of maps. Still a big map pool, but not too big. If you choose a seven map pool, you will do alright. It will offer lots of variety in picks, and will likely not contain any racial imbalances that cannot be fixed with vetos.

However one thing I came to realize over time is that almost every tournament only has one BO7 series in the entire event. The finals. While that is great to be prepared for it, it is creating thousands of useless practice games for nothing, since all the players but the Top 2 will be forced to still practice all seven.

This is a minor problem, but still a problem nonetheless. In a tournament that may contain up to 200 players, why are 200 people practicing maps that only 2 people will use. You are making 99% of your player base work for something that only benefits the Top 1%. It's a inefficient system, and also with a veto system you sometimes create rounds that can go on forever if all the 2 player maps get veto'd out. If you already have a seven map pool, that's good however you should look to "trim some of the fat" with a 5 map pool as described below, but do not worry too much, a seven map pool is still very good.


While I agree that having 5-map pools may make for better games due to more intensified practice on fewer maps, I don't think the efficiency argument is quite the way you present it. Even though none of the players but the top 2 will actually use all 7 maps in one match (and actually usually not even in the finals unless they go 4-3), they will still get to play on every map, just spread out over multiple rounds of the tournament (unless they get knocked out round 1). Assuming the tournament fully cycles out maps in the rotation each round, you will see variety of all the maps.

My personal opinion on the number of maps in a pool would be that 7 is ideal for tournaments that allow one veto per player, but 5 is ideal if no vetoes are allowed.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Old Post

 
 Barrin   United States. May 19 2012 12:23. Posts 4196
Profile Blog # 
Yes. Agree with pretty much all points. I'm glad someone took the time to explain all this.

There isn't a tremendous amount of people that make map pools, but those who do really need to read this.

I mean obviously don't follow everything word for word for every tournament, but this is great food for thought.
Last edit: 2012-05-19 12:29:23
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." -Voltaire
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 Encrypto   United States. May 19 2012 12:26. Posts 442
Profile # 
Wow. This is a complete other specialization. It's like an art. Very interesting. Thanks for this.
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  Ruscour   May 19 2012 12:29. Posts 5116Profile Blog # 
I didn't think you'd actually write this guide, I thought you were just joking. I agree with you though, and pleasantly surprised at the lack of ESV favouritism.
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 monitor   United States. May 19 2012 12:32. Posts 2276
Profile Blog # 
There's this aspect and then also having maps that favor a race by a small proportion so the veto system can "balance" matchups. It isn't a very popular strategy, but having a map like Metalopolis (for lack of a better example) in to balance Metropolis in TvZ can work.
Starcraft 2 Mapmaker for TPW || Author of Korhal Compound
Old Post

 
 thurst0n   United States. May 19 2012 12:36. Posts 573
Profile Blog # 
Nice.
What about having 6 maps, and allowing each player to veto a map in every Best of, it would limit players to 5 maps for each matchup still, and it would give KeSPA and the like their 4 map bo5's. (6-1-1=4 maps left over for the series)

there may be a problem with my idea, what do you guys think?
P.S. I'm nub. If you'd like you can follow me @xthurst but its not worth it ill be honest
Old Post

 
 DYEAlabaster   Canada. May 19 2012 12:40. Posts 992
Profile Blog # 

On May 19 2012 12:36 thurst0n wrote:
Nice.
What about having 6 maps, and allowing each player to veto a map in every Best of, it would limit players to 5 maps for each matchup still, and it would give KeSPA and the like their 4 map bo5's. (6-1-1=4 maps left over for the series)

there may be a problem with my idea, what do you guys think?



Having 6 maps in a pool has all the negative aspects of 7 and 4. The repetition of 4 map pools with the need to practise 6 maps, only to have 2 vetoed means that this doesn't really work. You're actually taking away from players who want to develop map specific strategies by throwing in more maps that theoretically wouldn't be used.
 
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 Cele   Germany. May 19 2012 12:43. Posts 927
Profile # 
this was a great read. I never thought of picking map pools that extensive. However i´d like to note, to me it seems that Kespa using 4 maps is risking some boredom of repetition from viewers. Seeing just 4 maps all over might be a bit short.
all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. - Dolly, first cloned sheep.
Old Post

 
 LuckoftheIrish   United States. May 19 2012 12:48. Posts 1766
Profile # 
I would agree that there's a fourth type of map - the strategy map - and would throw Terminus in as one. I think it's also important to look at racial data, which you touched on. Even within a category - say, macro maps - there are some that are better for different races. Base placement, ramp sizes and locations and other factors can make one macro map hugely better for one race or another. A five-map pool that has a rush map, a macro map, two 'standard' maps and a strategy map can still be terrible if there's a racial imbalance. So our hypothetical map pool of:

Cloud Kingdom (TvZ, ZvP)
Crossfire (ZvP)
Metalopolis (TvZ)
Shakuras Plateau (TvP, ZvT)
Antiga Shipyard (TvP, TvZ)

- has serious problems (setting aside that it has lots of outdates maps in similar categories). Three of the maps trend strongly (more than a 5% swing) in favor of Terran in TvZ. Two trend strongly in favor of Z in the ZvP matchup. Two trend strongly in favor of T in the TvP matchup. Only Shakuras trends strongly against Terran in any matchup - TvZ. No map[ has a strong trend in favor of Protoss. This map pool sets Protoss players up for failure, and it ain't looking pretty for Zergs playing ZvTs either. You'd expect, all other things being equal, to have a lot more Terrans in your later rounds with this pool at the expense of Zergs and especially Protoss players. That makes your tournament much less compelling.
Last edit: 2012-05-19 12:53:44
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Come park the Gracken, you newb.
Old Post

 
 Ragoo   Germany. May 19 2012 12:51. Posts 2205
Profile # 
While I disagree with some things you're doing nowadays, I wholeheartedly agree with this.

BW (and SotG) have been more than right about the smaller map pools. It's important that every maps can be practiced for every matchup to ensure the quality of the games and variety of strategies (opposed to playing the same general strategies on all maps).

Also it's much better for introducing new maps if you have small map pools where you can actually practice every single map.

I really hope tournaments realize this in the future. Repeating maps in bo7 final really isn't an issue at all if you made good map picks.

One more thing, admins/staff aren't really capable of judging maps properly and picking the right ones on their own. Sorry but this is something only the top mapmakers can really do... this may sound elitist but trust me it is the case...
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Old Post

 
 Wafflelisk   Canada. May 19 2012 12:55. Posts 931
Profile # 
Really nice post. Even though I don't organize any tournaments, I still enjoyed reading this post.

As an aside, I'm especially enjoying Frigid Pass. I'd like to see more tournaments pick it up.
Waffles > Pancakes
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 FlukyS   Ireland. May 19 2012 13:00. Posts 439
Profile Blog # 
I wouldn't want to argue but I can see why in a best of 5 they would allow for like 9 maps and allow each player to veto 2. Like id hate to play on entombed and korhal for instance against a protoss. Entombed for obvious reasons if you spawn either close positions you have a really close rush distance and not much time to react, its really hard to trade units and not die too and that is bad for zerg and/or can never take a safe third because your third is more or less on top of their base and korhal because heavy sentry pushes to the third is really strong because you can use the hatch as part of the wall against the defending units. I veto these maps on ladder along with Ohana on ladder but that is more preference because I don't like facing mech on it.

Its interesting though because you can never have an entirely balanced map and blizzard went out to say they like having a certain amount of favor to make the match ups interesting. I do know the reason why having an 8+ map pool doesn't make much sense like the players have to train on each but what would I prefer? Id say id much prefer to train on them and waste some time because it might be vetoed rather than play on a map I know id have to work a lot harder to win on because the map is heavily favored for a match up or 2 like entombed.

As for maps I think are tournament viable or not I agree with all of them but id obviously add entombed. As for what id like to see more maps like cloud kingdom which I think is pretty balanced for me other than that cannon nook which needs to go die in a fire.
 
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 phiinix   United States. May 19 2012 13:24. Posts 1124
Profile Blog # 
I like the idea of putting in 1 or 2 new maps with every tourny pool. Considering how frequently they're run these days, I think 1 is better (in say a 7 map pool). The reason I like it is because it makes for spectating a little more exciting because it's just more new, and anticipation is what spectating is all about. The only potential issue is that it relies on players using the terrain well. Not necessarily exploits, but if it's played out exactly like all the other maps, it's not that exciting. Additionally, even if it's played out differently, it's really hard to see unless it's pointed out by a pro analyst caster, so it requires work from multiple parties to make new map additions worth it.

Like the idea, but I think players should have just as much say as map makers do when it comes to picking a pool.
 
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 Authweight   United States. May 19 2012 15:25. Posts 304
Profile # 

On May 19 2012 13:24 phiinix wrote:
I like the idea of putting in 1 or 2 new maps with every tourny pool. Considering how frequently they're run these days, I think 1 is better (in say a 7 map pool). The reason I like it is because it makes for spectating a little more exciting because it's just more new, and anticipation is what spectating is all about. The only potential issue is that it relies on players using the terrain well. Not necessarily exploits, but if it's played out exactly like all the other maps, it's not that exciting. Additionally, even if it's played out differently, it's really hard to see unless it's pointed out by a pro analyst caster, so it requires work from multiple parties to make new map additions worth it.

Like the idea, but I think players should have just as much say as map makers do when it comes to picking a pool.


The problem is that many players want the map pool to remain mostly static, because they're comfortable with the maps that are out there now. The whole point of a changing map pool is to keep the players on their toes and reward players who know how to adapt their playstyle. Players like playing on "outdated" maps because they're figured out and very comfortable. The contention in the OP, though, is that the key to really exciting tournaments is to sometimes push the players outside their comfort zone, and make them try new approaches that they may not be as familiar with.
 
Old Post

 
 Diamond   United States. May 19 2012 15:32. Posts 9005
Profile Blog # 
Going to re-word 7 maps section a bit, I wrote this in like 2 hours so there is some thoughts that did not come through clear.

Edit: Done, I don't know if it makes more or less sense now.

Edit 2: Expanded the 'which version" section.
Last edit: 2012-05-19 17:10:16
Check out ESV TV at http://www.esvtv.com ****** TaeJa, he's pretty good.
Old Post

 
 pestilenz   Korea (South). May 19 2012 18:29. Posts 354
Profile Blog # 
I really hope this thread will get the deserved attention. People really underestimate the value of a good map pool, and just puts in "the standard old" maps in as a default even though they may be bad...

Nice read!
Old Post

  NonY   May 22 2012 06:16. Posts 6923Profile Blog # 

On May 19 2012 12:18 -orb- wrote:
My personal opinion on the number of maps in a pool would be that 7 is ideal for tournaments that allow one veto per player, but 5 is ideal if no vetoes are allowed.

Most people choose which map to veto by which map they practice the least or by which they think is bad for the matchup they're about to play. These two reasons are damn good reasons to not have the map in the map pool at all. Vetoes are band-aids on bad map pools. Every map in a map pool should be thoroughly practiced by all players and no map should be bad for a certain matchup. And it's not out of laziness or lack of effort that players aren't able to practice every map pool. There are just too many maps out there and the map pools are too big. Just making up numbers, there are maybe 15 maps that might be used at a major tournament and a major tournament will require you to be ready to play on any of 7 maps in one weekend. That does not produce quality games. Not possible to practice all three matchups on that many maps.

People seem so freaked out about the possibility for an extremely imbalanced map to occupy 1/4 or 1/5 of a map pool for a few tournaments. It's not a big deal. It gets removed quickly.

The way it is now, we aren't really living. No risk no reward. So many maps are played in such generic ways that hardly anyone can do anything drastically different on any map. If we want to see variety and refinement and creativity, we must do that at the risk of some new strategy or innovation being imbalanced. The first players to exploit an imbalance get a few easy wins as a reward for seeing something that no one else did and then the map is promptly removed from all competitive play.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ------ Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
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