| Scarecrow Korea (South). May 21 2012 16:25. Posts 4519 | Profile Blog # | |
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| unit United States. May 21 2012 16:25. Posts 2543 | Profile Blog # |
On May 21 2012 16:18 WickedBit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:05 Megabuster123 wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:03 unit wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)?
It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player.
Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts.
i think flash's biggest problem with sc2 is that he is stuck in the bw mentality of "the longer the game goes with me macroing right the farther ahead i am" which is true when you're building the bw superarmy of terran esp if you're flash but in sc2 terrans generally need to do damage to protoss and to pressure zergs to prevent absolute drone freedom when flash catches on to this he will improve rapidly just from applying the concept...this however will be difficult for him as he has held the same lategame or bust mindset for so many years in bw (when he doesn't cheese that is)
His problem is that he hasn't been playing the game long enough. He probably understands all of this concepts significantly better than you do, the difference is actually implementing them properly when for years he's been playing with bw concepts of armies and economic relationships.
Agreed. I am fairly sure that all BW players playing terran in SC2 know that terrans need to constantly pressure in all matchups. I don't know anyone who will win a TvZ with turtling and the same goes for TvP. Its constant harrassing and dropping and attacking on multiple points, sniping key tech buildings etc. The insane amounts of high DPS harassing options give terran this ability that protoss simply lacks. In fact so far protoss and zerg were having a hard time dealing with all these variations that terran could throw at them till Blizzard buffed them to a point where zerg is competitive and protoss may be borderline OP. But knowing this information is different from implementing. I am sure Flash knew he had to pressure Effort at some point, but at what ? If he leaves base too early or too late his army gets decimated. If he attacks at wrong points it will give his opponent more time. All these things only come with practice which these players have had very little off. I think a month or two into this we will start seeing more refined plays. Till then I am afraid we will probably see toss winning till some terran figures out how make two raxes before an expansion or discovers the banshee :D. All it all fairly amusing to see  .
the thing with timings like that though is that it's so easy to make up a random timing and figure out how it works out just by picking timings at random (at first at least) or based off of a few reads (such as lair/hive/3rd/4th timings) and drops tend to be good at any timing so long as there aren't huge packs of mutas around to snipe the instantly
drops force plenty of units without risking huge main gamechanging armies too |
| | "It's not trying to be perfect; it's being yourself."-Liquid'NonY |  |
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| Dosey United States. May 21 2012 16:25. Posts 3977 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 16:23 Dodgin wrote:Don't forget GSL S3 Up/Down Group A is tonight, It's not on the TL calendar for some reason but it starts in about 1 hour 45 mins.
Jesus. I have not slept in three days. I hate you Korea. |
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 windsupernova Mexico. May 21 2012 16:25. Posts 5272 | Profile # |
Damnit, I was expecting Team 8 to do better....
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| | "Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games |  |
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| Le French France. May 21 2012 16:25. Posts 782 | Profile # |
| No more games right? Poor Team 8 is cursed lol. |
| | Ca va? |  |
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| Sinedd Poland. May 21 2012 16:26. Posts 6195 | Profile # | |
| | T H C makes ppl happy | |
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| Ryo May 21 2012 16:26. Posts 8408 | Profile Blog # |
On May 21 2012 16:25 Scarecrow wrote:
Coach han needs to go
I don't think many people want his job. |
| | 영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬. |  |
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| Swords May 21 2012 16:26. Posts 1298 | Profile Blog # |
On May 21 2012 16:25 unit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:18 WickedBit wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:05 Megabuster123 wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:03 unit wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)?
It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player.
Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts.
i think flash's biggest problem with sc2 is that he is stuck in the bw mentality of "the longer the game goes with me macroing right the farther ahead i am" which is true when you're building the bw superarmy of terran esp if you're flash but in sc2 terrans generally need to do damage to protoss and to pressure zergs to prevent absolute drone freedom when flash catches on to this he will improve rapidly just from applying the concept...this however will be difficult for him as he has held the same lategame or bust mindset for so many years in bw (when he doesn't cheese that is)
His problem is that he hasn't been playing the game long enough. He probably understands all of this concepts significantly better than you do, the difference is actually implementing them properly when for years he's been playing with bw concepts of armies and economic relationships.
Agreed. I am fairly sure that all BW players playing terran in SC2 know that terrans need to constantly pressure in all matchups. I don't know anyone who will win a TvZ with turtling and the same goes for TvP. Its constant harrassing and dropping and attacking on multiple points, sniping key tech buildings etc. The insane amounts of high DPS harassing options give terran this ability that protoss simply lacks. In fact so far protoss and zerg were having a hard time dealing with all these variations that terran could throw at them till Blizzard buffed them to a point where zerg is competitive and protoss may be borderline OP. But knowing this information is different from implementing. I am sure Flash knew he had to pressure Effort at some point, but at what ? If he leaves base too early or too late his army gets decimated. If he attacks at wrong points it will give his opponent more time. All these things only come with practice which these players have had very little off. I think a month or two into this we will start seeing more refined plays. Till then I am afraid we will probably see toss winning till some terran figures out how make two raxes before an expansion or discovers the banshee :D. All it all fairly amusing to see .
the thing with timings like that though is that it's so easy to make up a random timing and figure out how it works out just by picking timings at random (at first at least) or based off of a few reads (such as lair/hive/3rd/4th timings) and drops tend to be good at any timing so long as there aren't huge packs of mutas around to snipe the instantly drops force plenty of units without risking huge main gamechanging armies too
Maybe he's like Thorzain and he gets really scared whenever he moves out and refuses to drop because it's scary (see RedBull LAN). Flash just hasn't learned the way of the spoon yet. |
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| Integra Sweden. May 21 2012 16:27. Posts 4915 | Profile Blog # |
On May 21 2012 16:22 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:20 xxpack09 wrote:
such a long pause for such a quick steamrolling ;;
The game was over at the 8 minute mark  The moment jaehoon failed the attack with poor tech and then the expo was the nail in the coffin.
The worse game ever must had been the first PvP in yesterdays Proleague when one player went 2 DT rush only to morph the into a archon and then getting killed by a stalker rush. Those 500 gas spent into 5 immortals instead would prolly had won him the game lol. |
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| Kavas Australia. May 21 2012 16:29. Posts 1135 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 16:23 Swords wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:21 Oboeman wrote:
I guess that's why team 8 really really really really wanted a regame and fought the decision for 20 minutes.
I really do wonder if the equipment problem was at all responsible for Jaehoon's timing being so off.
I doubt it. He missed 1 chronoboost and that tells a lot regarding his mechanics in SC2. Nobody in the GSL would ever make that mistake unless they are playing in full tilt. |
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| power-overwhelming Canada. May 21 2012 16:29. Posts 306 | Profile # |
| Cant wait to see Bisu play sc2. I like how BW toss prefer warp prism rather than planting pylons everywhere. Always wondered why sc2 pros waste minerals on pylons that wont be used/killed when warp prism can warp it anywhere you want. |
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 Fionn United States. May 21 2012 16:29. Posts 16216 | Profile Blog # |
It really is hell for T8. Even Ace looked pretty decent in SC2 while all of T8's games have been awful. Their saving grace might be that JD's pure talent can will him to victory and Baby is supposedly good, but already -7 after two games is terrible.
Sea and Jaehoon look like lost causes at the moment. Movie and by.hero will need to contribute big time.
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| WhosTheSmuRf United States. May 21 2012 16:33. Posts 56 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 16:29 power-overwhelming wrote:
Cant wait to see Bisu play sc2. I like how BW toss prefer warp prism rather than planting pylons everywhere. Always wondered why sc2 pros waste minerals on pylons that wont be used/killed when warp prism can warp it anywhere you want.
A pylon is also for scouting purposes, and a pylon only costs 100minerals en gives you additional supply which a warp prism doesn't. There are multiple reasons why mass pylons is better than mass warp prisms |
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| Dosey United States. May 21 2012 16:33. Posts 3977 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 16:25 unit wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:18 WickedBit wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:05 Megabuster123 wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:03 unit wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)?
It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player.
Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts.
i think flash's biggest problem with sc2 is that he is stuck in the bw mentality of "the longer the game goes with me macroing right the farther ahead i am" which is true when you're building the bw superarmy of terran esp if you're flash but in sc2 terrans generally need to do damage to protoss and to pressure zergs to prevent absolute drone freedom when flash catches on to this he will improve rapidly just from applying the concept...this however will be difficult for him as he has held the same lategame or bust mindset for so many years in bw (when he doesn't cheese that is)
His problem is that he hasn't been playing the game long enough. He probably understands all of this concepts significantly better than you do, the difference is actually implementing them properly when for years he's been playing with bw concepts of armies and economic relationships.
Agreed. I am fairly sure that all BW players playing terran in SC2 know that terrans need to constantly pressure in all matchups. I don't know anyone who will win a TvZ with turtling and the same goes for TvP. Its constant harrassing and dropping and attacking on multiple points, sniping key tech buildings etc. The insane amounts of high DPS harassing options give terran this ability that protoss simply lacks. In fact so far protoss and zerg were having a hard time dealing with all these variations that terran could throw at them till Blizzard buffed them to a point where zerg is competitive and protoss may be borderline OP. But knowing this information is different from implementing. I am sure Flash knew he had to pressure Effort at some point, but at what ? If he leaves base too early or too late his army gets decimated. If he attacks at wrong points it will give his opponent more time. All these things only come with practice which these players have had very little off. I think a month or two into this we will start seeing more refined plays. Till then I am afraid we will probably see toss winning till some terran figures out how make two raxes before an expansion or discovers the banshee :D. All it all fairly amusing to see .
the thing with timings like that though is that it's so easy to make up a random timing and figure out how it works out just by picking timings at random (at first at least) or based off of a few reads (such as lair/hive/3rd/4th timings) and drops tend to be good at any timing so long as there aren't huge packs of mutas around to snipe the instantly drops force plenty of units without risking huge main gamechanging armies too
The problem is that KeSPA protects its players so much... From this exclusivity with MLG to what one would assume would be no participation in GSL. The BW pros have no top tier SC2 pros to compare notes and test against. They can only go on ladder and see how things work out there sure,but it can be a total crapshoot sometimes. So all they have left is each other to try and learn from. It's like putting a bunch of Bronze players in a room and telling them they must make it to GM.
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| OopsOopsBaby Singapore. May 21 2012 16:34. Posts 2217 | Profile Blog # |
| this format is so fucking horrible. |
| | http://twitter.com/yongming87 | |
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 CursOr United States. May 21 2012 16:37. Posts 5524 | Profile Blog # |
On May 21 2012 16:34 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
this format is so fucking horrible.
It's not so bad... I'm gonna go out on a limb and just guess that you happen to not like Starcraft 2.
The problem is, they are really only appealing to fans of both games. That's an ever narrower audience than BW alone, or SC2 alone (in Korea)... they are hoping people will want to watch both games. Usually 1 doesn't mix with the other. I happen to like both :/ |
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| Scarecrow Korea (South). May 21 2012 16:40. Posts 4519 | Profile Blog # |
On May 21 2012 16:27 Integra wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:22 ZeromuS wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:20 xxpack09 wrote:
such a long pause for such a quick steamrolling ;;
The game was over at the 8 minute mark The moment jaehoon failed the attack with poor tech and then the expo was the nail in the coffin.
The worse game ever must had been the first PvP in yesterdays Proleague when one player went 2 DT rush only to morph the into a archon and then getting killed by a stalker rush. Those 500 gas spent into 5 immortals instead would prolly had won him the game lol.
-.- if you actually paid attention the toss spotted the observer blur and knew his dt tech was scouted. It wasn't going to work so he opted for the archon and a contain. Where the hell was he going to pull 5 immortals from in time to do anything when he didnt even have a robo? That game was actually decent overall, you're just clueless |
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| BluePanther United States. May 21 2012 16:41. Posts 2669 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 16:29 power-overwhelming wrote:
Cant wait to see Bisu play sc2. I like how BW toss prefer warp prism rather than planting pylons everywhere. Always wondered why sc2 pros waste minerals on pylons that wont be used/killed when warp prism can warp it anywhere you want.
Because WP takes 200 mins and T2 tech isntead of 100 mins and no tech. plus supply so you can work it into openings. |
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| CursOr United States. May 21 2012 16:43. Posts 5524 | Profile Blog # |
On May 21 2012 16:40 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:27 Integra wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:22 ZeromuS wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:20 xxpack09 wrote:
such a long pause for such a quick steamrolling ;;
The game was over at the 8 minute mark The moment jaehoon failed the attack with poor tech and then the expo was the nail in the coffin.
The worse game ever must had been the first PvP in yesterdays Proleague when one player went 2 DT rush only to morph the into a archon and then getting killed by a stalker rush. Those 500 gas spent into 5 immortals instead would prolly had won him the game lol.
-.- if you actually paid attention the toss spotted the observer blur and knew his dt tech was scouted. It wasn't going to work so he opted for the archon and a contain. Where the hell was he going to pull 5 immortals from in time to do anything when he didnt even have a robo? That game was actually decent overall, you're just clueless
Ya, that BeSt game is awesome. The purpose of an Archon, anyways, is to trample the FF up the ramp... not for DPS or something. So it had a very direct purpose. |
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| Akhee Brazil. May 21 2012 16:45. Posts 805 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 16:40 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:27 Integra wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:22 ZeromuS wrote:
On May 21 2012 16:20 xxpack09 wrote:
such a long pause for such a quick steamrolling ;;
The game was over at the 8 minute mark The moment jaehoon failed the attack with poor tech and then the expo was the nail in the coffin.
The worse game ever must had been the first PvP in yesterdays Proleague when one player went 2 DT rush only to morph the into a archon and then getting killed by a stalker rush. Those 500 gas spent into 5 immortals instead would prolly had won him the game lol.
-.- if you actually paid attention the toss spotted the observer blur and knew his dt tech was scouted. It wasn't going to work so he opted for the archon and a contain. Where the hell was he going to pull 5 immortals from in time to do anything when he didnt even have a robo? That game was actually decent overall, you're just clueless
archons all ins are pretty common in pvp, they are strong, he probably didnt even want dts |
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