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| Salv Canada. May 23 2012 14:30. Posts 2965 | Profile Blog # |
| If you're a barbarian in this game you're going to have a significantly harder time than any other class. Other classes are able to solo content, barbarians can, but they have to resort to gimmicky builds and a lot of mob-dodging. Barbarians are clearly undertuned compared to the other classes, so it's not a case of needing to farm more gear, unless you're saying it's totally cool that one class has to work hard at farming for gear while the other classes can breeze through inferno on A4 hell blues and rares. |
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| OlorinTheWise United States. May 23 2012 14:32. Posts 166 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 07:17 Lagcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 07:08 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
there are no mob in D2 that can really 1-2 shot you before u can escape of use your skills to avoid etc...
Lol. Undead Soul killers? Any kind of lightning enchanted mob? Venom lord mobs? Trash mobs? Glooms? Urders? Tainted? Try again with a legitimate argument sometime. I'm not even gonna waste my time fleshing out the rest of the garbage in your post.
Venom Lords, Gloams and Tainted can't come close to one-shotting you if you have decent resists, same with LEBs since they removed the MSLEB bug. Hell, if you've got 75% resistance or more and some decent magic reduction, they barely damage you at all. Likewise, the Bone Fetishes aren't really that much of a threat if you have 75% blocking and some damage resistance and reduction equipment. o_O
The only two monsters which are really dangerous are the Frenzytaurs and Greater Mummies, as both do pure magical damage which cannot be resisted. And, even then, unless you find an extra fast/extra strong/fanat enchanted mob of them, they can't kill you quickly enough that you can't react. Well, unless you hit a lag spike or you've got horrible reflexes. >.>
The Inferno mobs in Diablo 3, however, will still one-shot you even if you've got gigantic defense, resists and are stacking so much vitality that you can't even kill anything. That's not difficulty, or telling you to farm more gear, that's just straight up pathetic design. :/
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| m00nchile Slovenia. May 23 2012 14:40. Posts 234 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 14:32 OlorinTheWise wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 07:17 Lagcraft wrote:
On May 23 2012 07:08 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
there are no mob in D2 that can really 1-2 shot you before u can escape of use your skills to avoid etc...
Lol. Undead Soul killers? Any kind of lightning enchanted mob? Venom lord mobs? Trash mobs? Glooms? Urders? Tainted? Try again with a legitimate argument sometime. I'm not even gonna waste my time fleshing out the rest of the garbage in your post.
Venom Lords, Gloams and Tainted can't come close to one-shotting you if you have decent resists, same with LEBs since they removed the MSLEB bug. Hell, if you've got 75% resistance or more and some decent magic reduction, they barely damage you at all. Likewise, the Bone Fetishes aren't really that much of a threat if you have 75% blocking and some damage resistance and reduction equipment. o_O The only two monsters which are really dangerous are the Frenzytaurs and Greater Mummies, as both do pure magical damage which cannot be resisted. And, even then, unless you find an extra fast/extra strong/fanat enchanted mob of them, they can't kill you quickly enough that you can't react. Well, unless you hit a lag spike or you've got horrible reflexes. >.> The Inferno mobs in Diablo 3, however, will still one-shot you even if you've got gigantic defense, resists and are stacking so much vitality that you can't even kill anything. That's not difficulty, or telling you to farm more gear, that's just straight up pathetic design. :/
And you know what gigantic defense and resists are after a week of playing? I played D2 for about a month before I could say I had a good character, and that was in an established economy. The gear people have now is nothing compared to what dedicated players will have a month or two down the road.
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| | The above post was made by a noob. Take it as such. |
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| NotSorry United States. May 23 2012 14:42. Posts 5370 | Profile Blog # |
Don't know where you think this extra gear is going to magically come from, cause most of us that have beaten inferno are pretty much capped on gear. An upgrade of maybe 100-200dmg and 500hp isn't going to do me a damn bit of good.
Last edit: 2012-05-23 14:43:10 |
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| Salv Canada. May 23 2012 14:45. Posts 2965 | Profile Blog # |
On May 23 2012 14:40 m00nchile wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:32 OlorinTheWise wrote:
On May 23 2012 07:17 Lagcraft wrote:
On May 23 2012 07:08 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
there are no mob in D2 that can really 1-2 shot you before u can escape of use your skills to avoid etc...
Lol. Undead Soul killers? Any kind of lightning enchanted mob? Venom lord mobs? Trash mobs? Glooms? Urders? Tainted? Try again with a legitimate argument sometime. I'm not even gonna waste my time fleshing out the rest of the garbage in your post.
Venom Lords, Gloams and Tainted can't come close to one-shotting you if you have decent resists, same with LEBs since they removed the MSLEB bug. Hell, if you've got 75% resistance or more and some decent magic reduction, they barely damage you at all. Likewise, the Bone Fetishes aren't really that much of a threat if you have 75% blocking and some damage resistance and reduction equipment. o_O The only two monsters which are really dangerous are the Frenzytaurs and Greater Mummies, as both do pure magical damage which cannot be resisted. And, even then, unless you find an extra fast/extra strong/fanat enchanted mob of them, they can't kill you quickly enough that you can't react. Well, unless you hit a lag spike or you've got horrible reflexes. >.> The Inferno mobs in Diablo 3, however, will still one-shot you even if you've got gigantic defense, resists and are stacking so much vitality that you can't even kill anything. That's not difficulty, or telling you to farm more gear, that's just straight up pathetic design. :/
And you know what gigantic defense and resists are after a week of playing? I played D2 for about a month before I could say I had a good character, and that was in an established economy. The gear people have now is nothing compared to what dedicated players will have a month or two down the road.
Two points to make in regards to your statement:
- Unlike D2, you can reach max level very quickly, so your potential to find the best drops are much higher, much quicker.
- All other classes are able to solo inferno, except the Barbarian. The best legendary items have been found and are purchasable on the auction house. There's so many people playing and selling amazing items on the auction house that people are able to gear up very quickly. The best legendary 1H has a max of ~700 DPS, and there's plenty of ~1050 dps 1H weapons on the AH you can buy. You can buy items 40% better than the rarest, perfect stat legendary items and it's still extremely difficult relative to other classes. People are in a position to judge.
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| | http://www.twitch.tv/Lucas_Salv_Salvatore / https://twitter.com/SWBKSalv |
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| KiLL_ORdeR United States. May 23 2012 14:52. Posts 1460 | Profile Blog # |
Why are people posting about hell mode in an inferno discussion?
My monk can solo act 4 hell with 2 people afk without ever coming close to death. That same exact monk can't even start act 2 inferno because the bugs on the road to enter the desert 1 shot her immediately without a second thought.
The 2 levels aren't even comparable, it's like a masters level sc2 player giving advice to a progamer.Last edit: 2012-05-23 14:52:37 |
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| Mithhaike Singapore. May 23 2012 14:53. Posts 827 | Profile Blog # |
On May 23 2012 14:45 Salv wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:40 m00nchile wrote:
On May 23 2012 14:32 OlorinTheWise wrote:
On May 23 2012 07:17 Lagcraft wrote:
On May 23 2012 07:08 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
there are no mob in D2 that can really 1-2 shot you before u can escape of use your skills to avoid etc...
Lol. Undead Soul killers? Any kind of lightning enchanted mob? Venom lord mobs? Trash mobs? Glooms? Urders? Tainted? Try again with a legitimate argument sometime. I'm not even gonna waste my time fleshing out the rest of the garbage in your post.
Venom Lords, Gloams and Tainted can't come close to one-shotting you if you have decent resists, same with LEBs since they removed the MSLEB bug. Hell, if you've got 75% resistance or more and some decent magic reduction, they barely damage you at all. Likewise, the Bone Fetishes aren't really that much of a threat if you have 75% blocking and some damage resistance and reduction equipment. o_O The only two monsters which are really dangerous are the Frenzytaurs and Greater Mummies, as both do pure magical damage which cannot be resisted. And, even then, unless you find an extra fast/extra strong/fanat enchanted mob of them, they can't kill you quickly enough that you can't react. Well, unless you hit a lag spike or you've got horrible reflexes. >.> The Inferno mobs in Diablo 3, however, will still one-shot you even if you've got gigantic defense, resists and are stacking so much vitality that you can't even kill anything. That's not difficulty, or telling you to farm more gear, that's just straight up pathetic design. :/
And you know what gigantic defense and resists are after a week of playing? I played D2 for about a month before I could say I had a good character, and that was in an established economy. The gear people have now is nothing compared to what dedicated players will have a month or two down the road.
Two points to make in regards to your statement: - Unlike D2, you can reach max level very quickly, so your potential to find the best drops are much higher, much quicker.
- All other classes are able to solo inferno, except the Barbarian. The best legendary items have been found and are purchasable on the auction house. There's so many people playing and selling amazing items on the auction house that people are able to gear up very quickly. The best legendary 1H has a max of ~700 DPS, and there's plenty of ~1050 dps 1H weapons on the AH you can buy. You can buy items 40% better than the rarest, perfect stat legendary items and it's still extremely difficult relative to other classes. People are in a position to judge.
I agree with Salv. People are farming Act4 Inferno already. Most of the good stuff are already up on the market. We ARE in the position to judge D3 item-wise right now.
I would say Barbarians are screwed(i have 1, stuck in Act1 inferno). I am now rerolling a DH just so i can actually hunt items. I do not see how Barbarians can handle Inferno even with the best avaliable gear in the game. I also do not understand why would they design things so that there's no reasons for barbarians to use 2handers except for lower diffculty trashing. There's no way anyone can use a 2hander in inferno and expect not to die. 2handers are just trash right now.
If you do a comparison with D2X, 2handers are actually perfectly viable choice to run even hell. Infact you can just grab a full Immortal King set with the weapon and just play in Hell. Right now Inferno makes it that doing that is just plain suicide.
I've done a small comparison though. in D2 we can have like 10-20% life leech easily. In D3 only certain armor slots can have life leech, with a cap of 3% for each slot. It is hard to even reach 10% life leech. I wonder, if life leech is increased tremendously, would it make 2hander offensive style viable? 20% life leech of a 10k damage will be worth 2k hp. This should solve the problem of 2handers being non-viable(blizzard motto, make things viable).
Just a thought process i had on how would 2handers be viable(the only reason why im playing a barb, is to go "BARB SMASH" with a massive 2hander on everything).
On May 23 2012 14:52 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
Why are people posting about hell mode in an inferno discussion?
My monk can solo act 4 hell with 2 people afk without ever coming close to death. That same exact monk can't even start act 2 inferno because the bugs on the road to enter the desert 1 shot her immediately without a second thought.
The 2 levels aren't even comparable, it's like a masters level sc2 player giving advice to a progamer.
And this man speaks the truth. Hell is NOTHING compared to Inferno. When i did hell, yeah it was hard, but it was easily handled. Now i can do Hell mode easily but inferno just pwn me. Please do not come saying what hell is too hard/speaking abt hell experience that barbs are fine.
Its just not in the context. There's no way barbs can do inferno even when they handle hell easily.Last edit: 2012-05-23 14:56:44 |
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| hoby2000 United States. May 23 2012 14:54. Posts 727 | Profile Blog # |
On May 23 2012 14:30 m00nchile wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:23 hoby2000 wrote:
On May 23 2012 14:08 NotSorry wrote:
On May 23 2012 14:03 snowbird wrote:I need to bookmark this thread so I can laugh about it in a few months 
You mean when blizzard finally realized how badly they fucked up and completely rehaul the game? Not sure I'll be laughing but I'll be happy.
Wishful thinking. That is never going to happen.
Yea, just like Diablo 2 kept the same skill and item mechanics all throughout it's lifetime. O wait...
Practically did. They changed very litte, and the only changes they did make were create syngergies, and in patch 1.10, made the game harder in NM and Hell, but gave you more XP. There is no way in hell they're going to revamp the entire game. They might do a few tweaks, but nothing major imo until an expansion. |
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 TheYango United States. May 23 2012 14:56. Posts 16307 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 14:53 Mithhaike wrote:
I've done a small comparison though. in D2 we can have like 10-20% life leech easily. In D3 only certain armor slots can have life leech, with a cap of 3% for each slot. It is hard to even reach 10% life leech. I wonder, if life leech is increased tremendously, would it make 2hander offensive style viable? 20% life leech of a 10k damage will be worth 2k hp. This should solve the problem of 2handers being non-viable(blizzard motto, make things viable).
It's even worse than you think. Lifesteal has been tested and proven to have 20% reduced effectiveness on every difficulty above normal. That is, you're only getting 20% of you itemized lifesteal in Inferno. |
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 Hadley_ Germany. May 23 2012 14:57. Posts 157 | Profile # |
| So is the Barb already buffed? It's a Joke how bad the Barb is compared to the Rest especially the RangeDPS in Inferno... NOT ACCEPTABLE! Last edit: 2012-05-23 14:57:45 |
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| mawno Sweden. May 23 2012 15:02. Posts 80 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 14:45 Salv wrote:Two points to make in regards to your statement: - Unlike D2, you can reach max level very quickly, so your potential to find the best drops are much higher, much quicker.
- All other classes are able to solo inferno, except the Barbarian. The best legendary items have been found and are purchasable on the auction house. There's so many people playing and selling amazing items on the auction house that people are able to gear up very quickly. The best legendary 1H has a max of ~700 DPS, and there's plenty of ~1050 dps 1H weapons on the AH you can buy. You can buy items 40% better than the rarest, perfect stat legendary items and it's still extremely difficult relative to other classes. People are in a position to judge.
Unlike D2, monster lvl is much more relevant than player lvl.
The fact that you even bring up legendary items into the discussion show how little you know about D3 itemization. The best items have probably not been dropped yet, and if they have, they wont get sold before the RMAH is up.
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| Amui Canada. May 23 2012 15:10. Posts 3316 | Profile Blog # |
To make 2 hander's viable I'd think you need to add a parry mechanic, possibly buffing the alloted itemization budget on 2handers as well. A 2 hander SHOULD deal MUCH more than 1hand+shield(like, 1.5-2x+). As stated above, also make 2handers have a larger component of lifesteal possible. If a 2hander steals 3x as much as a 1h+shield, then it might be viable to use a 2hander and forgo the shield because it gives the same health, 80% more damage, and 3x the lifesteal.
Right now I'm on act 2 inferno on my monk(not cheesing) though, and the difference between act1 and act 2 is night and day. I can kill almost every unique mob in act1 within 3 deaths. I went through act 2, and died to the first wasp because my 50k hp evaporated in a tenth of a second. After having run with a 5k hp wizard who tanked better than I did(not even joking), who dealt probably 5x my dps, I'm very, very sad I decided to roll melee because having to spend a vast majority of my itemization on survivability just isn't fun. |
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| aRRoSC2 Denmark. May 23 2012 15:30. Posts 241 | Profile # |
I think they should stop health regen for 4 seconds or something after Force Armor is triggered. Also, just to clarify, it doesn't bring you to 35% health - any hit that would do more than 35% of your health only does 35% instead.
I play a wizard myself but didn't think of that trick and can't be bothered getting gear without vitality at this point :/ |
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| sparC Germany. May 23 2012 15:35. Posts 149 | Profile # |
I play barb too and after reading this thread I can only say.. Deal with it!
yes, there are things that may seem broken / cause frustration / are unfair / etc.
however, if anything this should be a motivation to figure out more about the game to overcome them.
In an odd way, I'm actually happy it's this way.
if you declare it impossible, or make bold statements (no gear will stop mobs from 1-shotting you)..
then you have given up.
You call it a shit game? A game that can't be fixed with any amount of patches? Major design flaws?
Do you know what kind of game would deserve these kind of accusations imo?
A game where you don't have to figure stuff out. A Multiplayer game that can be easily solo'd by everyone on highest difficulty with close to no effort or thought. I don't mean to put those words into your mouth, but think about for a second.
sure you can be jealous of wiz/dh's who have an edge right now..
or realise that this shouldn't be your concern, because it doesn't help you in any way.
(well okay.. you simply wait until someone else does the work for you and figures smth out / buffs or nerfs make it redundant)
I don't know if I have to point this out but.. there is nothing more rewarding in a game than overcoming a seemingly impossible challange because you figured smth out that you haven't thought of before.
And even if you won't find the solution before someone else and it becomes "common knowledge", you still appreciate it a great deal (I would even argue that only then you can appreciate it).
I can't think of a better way to end this post than with a quote from one of the barbs passive skills.
It kinda sums up my viewpoint on this^^
"Run if you must, but you'll only die tired." |
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| Mithhaike Singapore. May 23 2012 15:57. Posts 827 | Profile Blog # |
On May 23 2012 15:10 Amui wrote:
To make 2 hander's viable I'd think you need to add a parry mechanic, possibly buffing the alloted itemization budget on 2handers as well. A 2 hander SHOULD deal MUCH more than 1hand+shield(like, 1.5-2x+). As stated above, also make 2handers have a larger component of lifesteal possible. If a 2hander steals 3x as much as a 1h+shield, then it might be viable to use a 2hander and forgo the shield because it gives the same health, 80% more damage, and 3x the lifesteal.
Right now I'm on act 2 inferno on my monk(not cheesing) though, and the difference between act1 and act 2 is night and day. I can kill almost every unique mob in act1 within 3 deaths. I went through act 2, and died to the first wasp because my 50k hp evaporated in a tenth of a second. After having run with a 5k hp wizard who tanked better than I did(not even joking), who dealt probably 5x my dps, I'm very, very sad I decided to roll melee because having to spend a vast majority of my itemization on survivability just isn't fun.
Hmm a way to prevent damage taken while 2hander-ing. Parry. seems like a interesting fix! did not think of that. Could work. And yes they need to make 2handers itemisation budget way bigger. Right now i do not have a single reason to use a 2hander.
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 23 2012 15:35 sparC wrote:
I play barb too and after reading this thread I can only say.. Deal with it!
yes, there are things that may seem broken / cause frustration / are unfair / etc.
however, if anything this should be a motivation to figure out more about the game to overcome them.
In an odd way, I'm actually happy it's this way.
if you declare it impossible, or make bold statements (no gear will stop mobs from 1-shotting you)..
then you have given up.
You call it a shit game? A game that can't be fixed with any amount of patches? Major design flaws?
Do you know what kind of game would deserve these kind of accusations imo?
A game where you don't have to figure stuff out. A Multiplayer game that can be easily solo'd by everyone on highest difficulty with close to no effort or thought. I don't mean to put those words into your mouth, but think about for a second.
sure you can be jealous of wiz/dh's who have an edge right now..
or realise that this shouldn't be your concern, because it doesn't help you in any way.
(well okay.. you simply wait until someone else does the work for you and figures smth out / buffs or nerfs make it redundant)
I don't know if I have to point this out but.. there is nothing more rewarding in a game than overcoming a seemingly impossible challange because you figured smth out that you haven't thought of before.
And even if you won't find the solution before someone else and it becomes "common knowledge", you still appreciate it a great deal (I would even argue that only then you can appreciate it).
I can't think of a better way to end this post than with a quote from one of the barbs passive skills.
It kinda sums up my viewpoint on this^^
"Run if you must, but you'll only die tired."
I would like to kindly remind you that this IS a balance discussion. You posted NOTHING except attacking others who are posting on topic about BALANCE. Right now one of the hot issues is how useless barb is. Which cannot be denied btw. I would report you for being a jerk, but that would make me one too.
On May 23 2012 14:56 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:53 Mithhaike wrote:
I've done a small comparison though. in D2 we can have like 10-20% life leech easily. In D3 only certain armor slots can have life leech, with a cap of 3% for each slot. It is hard to even reach 10% life leech. I wonder, if life leech is increased tremendously, would it make 2hander offensive style viable? 20% life leech of a 10k damage will be worth 2k hp. This should solve the problem of 2handers being non-viable(blizzard motto, make things viable).
It's even worse than you think. Lifesteal has been tested and proven to have 20% reduced effectiveness on every difficulty above normal. That is, you're only getting 20% of you itemized lifesteal in Inferno.
Now i hate you for destroying my dream  jking jking. Well its a shitty move on blizzard part. |
| | Due to the fact that xy will be in Japan on a holiday with his family, we have no plans as all hopes are lost. You can’t morph without having 5 power rangers.. - iceiceice on their chances of winning IG |
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| Medrea May 23 2012 17:14. Posts 9999 | Profile # |
Been watching a wizard buddy of mine with 53k DPS run around inferno. Its actually not so bad he can get a 5 stack rolling although keeping it is a challenge.
The hitpoints normal monsters have makes a lot of sense actually. But the damage output is just nonsensical. Rare pack powers honestly look ok. Its the raw melee damage some of these monsters are putting out makes no sense to me. |
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| Prox Netherlands. May 23 2012 17:41. Posts 159 | Profile # |
From a Barb perspective. Act 1 I have easily on farm. There are a few elite packs I can't handle but I can easily skip those and solo through Act 1 with an aoe/healing build. Even wortham's blue mobs with molten I could handle that way by kite whirlwind/overpower/revenging.
Then Act 2. After running around like a moving Warcry machine with 65k Health 9k Armor and 12k Damage and dying in almost every single mob fight I realized making a range build would be the way to go.
I happen to run into a very nice 130STR - 80VIT belt with "reduce 4 rage on weaponthrow" !! Which makes the spell cost only 6 rage to use! So basicly I made a fury generating seimic slam / weaponthrow build in combination with a slow 900 dps 2hander. We almost cleared act 2 in combination with a wizard and a DH. I'm hitting like a truck with this build, it's very fun! I can farm Act 1 with it as well, but act 2 is too hard to solo.
Yes I agree, it's easier for a ranged class to play on Inferno, but see the challenge in it and try to come up with a build you can progress with!
That said: I'm levelling a Wizard also to try to solo clear Inferno in the coming weeks Last edit: 2012-05-23 17:43:18 |
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| Tobberoth Sweden. May 23 2012 17:59. Posts 4735 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 15:30 aRRoSC2 wrote:
I think they should stop health regen for 4 seconds or something after Force Armor is triggered. Also, just to clarify, it doesn't bring you to 35% health - any hit that would do more than 35% of your health only does 35% instead.
I play a wizard myself but didn't think of that trick and can't be bothered getting gear without vitality at this point :/
Blizzard has already nerfed Force Armor, it stops working if your HP is too low now, making 0 vit builds get oneshotted by everything. |
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| {ToT}ColmA Japan. May 23 2012 18:08. Posts 1985 | Profile # |
i am progressing with my dh, i dont ve gear for perma shadow and am sitting on 30 discipline, with some vitality items i am not getting one shotted by butcher and act 1 is on farm and i am halfway throu act 2, it would probably be way easier with more discipline but as i dont ve it i cant use it, its really fun to play inferno, if i do a mistake i die as most of the shit one shots me, the only real problem i ve is with really fast mobs everything else is doable~_~
i hope they are gonna tweak the dh so i ve some more choices buildwise but besides that its fun, i got one barb who is trying act 1 solo who cant beat anything past skeleton king, the other one just finished act 1 and now tries to get in on farm, so with gear and some kind of skill its doable.
i kinda doubt that the gear that is found now is the best u can find, 2 days ago crossbows max was like 1,1k dps and now its 1,4k..somewhere somehow people will find better stuff =) |
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| Shikyo Finland. May 23 2012 18:15. Posts 20589 | Profile Blog # |
On May 23 2012 14:56 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:53 Mithhaike wrote:
I've done a small comparison though. in D2 we can have like 10-20% life leech easily. In D3 only certain armor slots can have life leech, with a cap of 3% for each slot. It is hard to even reach 10% life leech. I wonder, if life leech is increased tremendously, would it make 2hander offensive style viable? 20% life leech of a 10k damage will be worth 2k hp. This should solve the problem of 2handers being non-viable(blizzard motto, make things viable).
It's even worse than you think. Lifesteal has been tested and proven to have 20% reduced effectiveness on every difficulty above normal. That is, you're only getting 20% of you itemized lifesteal in Inferno.
This explains my 50k crits with nether tentacles healing me for only 300... Last edit: 2012-05-23 18:17:03 |
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