[H] Someone explain what happened in this replay

http://drop.sc/184665

Specifically the battle at 15 min.

I realize I should have pulled back, microd, harassed better, etc.

However, I looked at his army, and looked at mine, and thought well this should be gg. I went back to macroing, and poof my army is gone when I check back.

Are mutas really countered that hard by tier 1 units?

My army cost was insanely higher than his. So I honestly feel I was right in thinking my army should have won that.

What should I have done in that situation?

I honestly feel like I outplayed him as far as macro/economy went and should have had the game wrapped up.

TiDragOnflY Netherlands. May 22 2012 11:40. Posts 124

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Maybe put in the description that it is a 2v2 next time? thank you very much

''You're guaranteed a death, but you're not guaranteed another life. Might as well see what you can make of it."

Newbie_1 May 22 2012 11:43. Posts 6

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Okay, It's a 2v2, and turns into a 1v1 as both our teamates drop.

onimarufaan May 22 2012 18:59. Posts 20

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mutas is a harassment unit, poor at direct engage.

ling mutas is a good strategy, but your opponent did perfect micro to counter you.
perfect FF make your lings did no dmg, GS and armo upgrade reduce 50% of mutas damage
which means your army has nearly no DPS

you should make sure your ling can suround before send in your mutas

chip789 Canada. May 22 2012 19:13. Posts 198

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Yeah...Fighting with Mutas....not a good idea, unless its stalkers. Infestors> Mutas.

Dude....I love Starcraft.

Bwaaaa Australia. May 22 2012 19:35. Posts 640

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When you see that there is about to be a decisive engagment which will win you or lose you the game dont just a move and go inject your bases. if you had been looking you probably could have retreated after he spent so much sentry energy and come back 30 seconds later and crushed him.

Last edit: 2012-05-22 19:36:33

Newbie_1 May 22 2012 23:15. Posts 6

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I realized Mutas aren't for direct engagements, but I thought his army was small enough to deal with. I clearly had the lead in unit cost.

So low level sentry micro > 3000+ mineral/gas lead in army supply.

A single unit hard counters an entire strategy...

Oh well lesson learned. Next time I'll just stay away from direct engagements, keep him in his base, and cover the damn screen in crawlers and expos. I'm never using Mutas against someone with even close to same skill level, I'll just get my face beat in.

madestro Costa Rica. May 22 2012 23:29. Posts 90

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On May 22 2012 23:15 Newbie_1 wrote:
I realized Mutas aren't for direct engagements, but I thought his army was small enough to deal with. I clearly had the lead in unit cost.

So low level sentry micro > 3000+ mineral/gas lead in army supply.

A single unit hard counters an entire strategy...

Oh well lesson learned. Next time I'll just stay away from direct engagements, keep him in his base, and cover the damn screen in crawlers and expos. I'm never using Mutas against someone with even close to same skill level, I'll just get my face beat in.

You are thinking about it the wrong way. Mutas are a harassment unit design to keep your opponent on their toes, deny expansions, scout, pick off reinforcements and give you map control.

Any decent micro is better than raw resources spent and that is the beauty of SC2, if it was just a game of who spent more on army then everyone would just put defenses up and only build tier 3 units so they can use the most amount of money.

Mutas are a steeping stone to tier 3 units, ultimately you have to transition out of them or else a tier 3 and tier 1 army will roll over you in a direct engagement, when you are harassing you need to expo, get infestors, hive and then either broods or ultras. I would say broods are better for muta players since you already have the spire and likely one or two air upgrades (also ultras are too expensive for their usefulness imo). But you can win with only mutas provided you have 3/3 and a ton of them, about 25 and up mutas will destroy almost anything with some micro (like not clumping up near thors or archons) and you can use lings as meat shields and distractions so the mutas don't take that much damage if you don't like tier 3 units.

"The Swarm will consume all." - Queen of Blades

Ero-Sennin United States. May 23 2012 00:05. Posts 653

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To me it looked like you were doing stuff just to do stuff. Like you said to yourself, "I've seen people get muta and harass their main, so I'm going to do that once in a 20 minute 2v2"

Do you understand why they do that? Do you know he pulled his whole army out of position and you could have ran in SOME of your 0-0 zerglings into the guy's 3rd and got super ahead?

I don't understand why you'd go double spire and do absolutely nothing with it. When the 2nd spire is building you have enough to start an upgrade on the first one but you don't. 2nd spire finishes at 12:46. Takes you 3 minutes to finally make use of it. So why get the 2nd one so quickly if you're not going to use it for 3 minutes?

Looking at the fight, on the whole, he has better upgrades then you (1-0-1 as Protoss and 1-1 marines vs. 1-1 ling and 0-1 muta).

My only guess is you go afk around 15 minutes (would explain why he kills ~48 zerglings before you realize this). Instead of thinking you need to not attack into an area that's easily forcefielded, you know, so you can get a really nice flank, make him group up from the forcefields and then use that as an advantage to muta (btw, why do you just have zerglings? Where's the banes at? Muta allows you to have map control for so long but you never go after the guy's 3rd and you never take top right. You don't even know if he has bases at the sides), you decide to attack him with an inferior army and then wonder why you lose.

Guardian shield reduces damage and you had no upgrade advantage over the protoss or terran. How did you expect to win? Are you insane? lol

Of course after that battle it's pretty over as you still don't have banes (not to mention no infestors, and still never went and got top right again even though you had map control for the majority of the game) and you lose your gold, so yeah.. no point in watching the next 10 minutes

Last edit: 2012-05-23 00:14:54

Luck makes talent look like genius.

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