| beefhamburger United States. May 25 2012 13:56. Posts 1822 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 13:19 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 12:58 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Watching hotshot jungle in these IPL qualifiers shows that he jungles how he thinks people jungle. He doesn't actually know what he's doing. There is more to clearing the jungle and ganking than clearing the jungle and ganking. Also he keeps building those stupid dorans shields.
Can't say I'm surprised... Voyboy is an incredible top laner, but honestly... You aint gonna find a jungler better than Saint. Saint sometimes does some dumb shit, but I've never seen him just get outclassed. Hotshot gets outclassed by people trolling in soloqueue... I didn't even have to watch to know in a tournament setting it went poorly.
Hotshot didn't do too badly in the IPL games. He had some good ganks and farmed decently. He wandered around a few times not knowing what to do a few times, but wasn't like camping a lane for 2 minutes. None of the games they lost were really his fault, but rather CLG as a whole didn't pick/play well. Voyboy lost them game 3 miscalculating his first fight with Jax and then letting him snowball. Could HS have played better? Sure. But he wasn't nearly as lacking as his solo queue games imo. I think he really needs to build better/differently because he never really builds damage items outside of wriggles unless he is farming out everyone else's lane. |
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| PrinceXizor United States. May 25 2012 13:57. Posts 4420 | Profile Blog # |
As a top laner how do you get your team to win, when everything they do pushes you closer to losing?
just played a game
Shen + ashe/ken v Irelia (me) top, I win my lane in terms of cs, kills, but i lose tower because it's a 1v2 lane.
Ken/Ashe vs Swain mid (swain builds pure AP despite me asking him to build good swain items and telling him what they are
Amumu + Varus bot vs Trist + Sona, trist feeds varus kills despite sona's best efforts
Shaco jungle (my team, they had no jungle)
overall
Shen, Kennen, Ashe, Varus, Amumu vs Irelia, Swain, Shaco, Sona, Trist
I called missing for every lane. there was no successful ganks for them because of it.
I told my team their ideal items
I farmed well enough (160 cs 20 minutes in)
I didn't feed ( 1 death until 20 minutes in, ended with 3)
I told my team when to get dragon ( we got 4 of 6 dragons taken)
I stole a baron and got away.
Every team fight i took out varus AND ashe before dying or needing to retreat.
team still lost. What can i do as a top player to bring my team to victory more than all of that? I clearly must not be doing something right if i continuously lose while playing top lane in ranked. How do i improve as a top laner?Last edit: 2012-05-25 14:01:42 |
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| SnK-Arcbound United States. May 25 2012 14:05. Posts 2153 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 13:56 beefhamburger wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 13:19 iCanada wrote:
On May 25 2012 12:58 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Watching hotshot jungle in these IPL qualifiers shows that he jungles how he thinks people jungle. He doesn't actually know what he's doing. There is more to clearing the jungle and ganking than clearing the jungle and ganking. Also he keeps building those stupid dorans shields.
Can't say I'm surprised... Voyboy is an incredible top laner, but honestly... You aint gonna find a jungler better than Saint. Saint sometimes does some dumb shit, but I've never seen him just get outclassed. Hotshot gets outclassed by people trolling in soloqueue... I didn't even have to watch to know in a tournament setting it went poorly.
Hotshot didn't do too badly in the IPL games. He had some good ganks and farmed decently. He wandered around a few times not knowing what to do a few times, but wasn't like camping a lane for 2 minutes. None of the games they lost were really his fault, but rather CLG as a whole didn't pick/play well. Voyboy lost them game 3 miscalculating his first fight with Jax and then letting him snowball. Could HS have played better? Sure. But he wasn't nearly as lacking as his solo queue games imo. I think he really needs to build better/differently because he never really builds damage items outside of wriggles unless he is farming out everyone else's lane.
In game 3 hotshot didn't gank a single lane. His one kill and assist came from him happening to be near bottom lane when they were dived. He never can tell when lane is going to be dived. He can never tell when the lane is going to be ganked. He never sets up ganks himself. Then add on the fact he just kills creep camps however he feels instead of ending his route where he can gank. He doesn't keep track of where the enemy jungler enters/exits the jungle to know which enemy camps are up and where the enemy is headed next and if he can countergank/gank. Hotshot doesn't pay attention to anything that's happening. |
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| danana United States. May 25 2012 14:10. Posts 158 | Profile # |
| Ok, I don't understand why people are neither banning nor first-picking Darius. He may be counterable, but I would never run the risk of having a fed Darius in solo queue. |
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| beefhamburger United States. May 25 2012 14:17. Posts 1822 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 14:05 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 13:56 beefhamburger wrote:
On May 25 2012 13:19 iCanada wrote:
On May 25 2012 12:58 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Watching hotshot jungle in these IPL qualifiers shows that he jungles how he thinks people jungle. He doesn't actually know what he's doing. There is more to clearing the jungle and ganking than clearing the jungle and ganking. Also he keeps building those stupid dorans shields.
Can't say I'm surprised... Voyboy is an incredible top laner, but honestly... You aint gonna find a jungler better than Saint. Saint sometimes does some dumb shit, but I've never seen him just get outclassed. Hotshot gets outclassed by people trolling in soloqueue... I didn't even have to watch to know in a tournament setting it went poorly.
Hotshot didn't do too badly in the IPL games. He had some good ganks and farmed decently. He wandered around a few times not knowing what to do a few times, but wasn't like camping a lane for 2 minutes. None of the games they lost were really his fault, but rather CLG as a whole didn't pick/play well. Voyboy lost them game 3 miscalculating his first fight with Jax and then letting him snowball. Could HS have played better? Sure. But he wasn't nearly as lacking as his solo queue games imo. I think he really needs to build better/differently because he never really builds damage items outside of wriggles unless he is farming out everyone else's lane.
In game 3 hotshot didn't gank a single lane. His one kill and assist came from him happening to be near bottom lane when they were dived. He never can tell when lane is going to be dived. He can never tell when the lane is going to be ganked. He never sets up ganks himself. Then add on the fact he just kills creep camps however he feels instead of ending his route where he can gank. He doesn't keep track of where the enemy jungler enters/exits the jungle to know which enemy camps are up and where the enemy is headed next and if he can countergank/gank. Hotshot doesn't pay attention to anything that's happening.
Yeah, he's still got a ton of work to do until he's a tourney competent jungler. He was supposed to have some training sessions with Krepo earlier but I don't know if that fell through or not. We'll have to see just how dedicated he is to learning soon. |
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| TwoToneTerran United States. May 25 2012 14:31. Posts 7990 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 14:10 danana wrote:
Ok, I don't understand why people are neither banning nor first-picking Darius. He may be counterable, but I would never run the risk of having a fed Darius in solo queue.
Is this why people banned akali when I first started playing? You ban a champ because of how good they are overall or if they counter you. Might as well ban vayne. |
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| courtpanda May 25 2012 15:27. Posts 765 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2012 12:26 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 11:15 courtpanda wrote:
so whats the best build for darius? right now, i've been going with something like
starting - boots, pots x4 / cloth armor, pots x5
core - dblade x2 -> phage/ (bloodthirster if game is going well)
final build - boots, mallet, bloodthirster, frozen heart, maw of malmortius, bloodthirster/tank item
im starting to question if i even need any bloodthirsters, it might be better to just get an atmas and randuins or FoN instead.
2dblades or wriggles -> HoG -> BT -> Omen + Aegis + Triforce/Hex->MoM order depending on your needs and level of fedness. get that fast BT every game though, he fucking ruins people with a BT.
hextech for his amazing AP ratios? |
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| Mogwai United States. May 25 2012 15:33. Posts 8013 | Profile Blog # |
| hexdrinker -> Maw of Malmortius, duh |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |
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| JackDino Gabon. May 25 2012 15:38. Posts 3293 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 14:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 14:10 danana wrote:
Ok, I don't understand why people are neither banning nor first-picking Darius. He may be counterable, but I would never run the risk of having a fed Darius in solo queue.
Is this why people banned akali when I first started playing? You ban a champ because of how good they are overall or if they counter you. Might as well ban vayne.
Actually this is how banning works in soloqueue. You ban the champs you don't want to play against or deal with, even if no one plays them.
It's why I started banning anivia, idiots keep getting caught with walls, better to ban her than lose a game. |
| | This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb |
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| BlackPaladin United States. May 25 2012 15:39. Posts 3639 | Profile # |
| The new athene item also works on orianna if you're doing the tankier chalice -> roa build that i've seen from time to time. |
| | "Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it." |
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| Seuss United States. May 25 2012 16:03. Posts 2981 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2012 13:56 beefhamburger wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 13:19 iCanada wrote:
On May 25 2012 12:58 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Watching hotshot jungle in these IPL qualifiers shows that he jungles how he thinks people jungle. He doesn't actually know what he's doing. There is more to clearing the jungle and ganking than clearing the jungle and ganking. Also he keeps building those stupid dorans shields.
Can't say I'm surprised... Voyboy is an incredible top laner, but honestly... You aint gonna find a jungler better than Saint. Saint sometimes does some dumb shit, but I've never seen him just get outclassed. Hotshot gets outclassed by people trolling in soloqueue... I didn't even have to watch to know in a tournament setting it went poorly.
Hotshot didn't do too badly in the IPL games. He had some good ganks and farmed decently. He wandered around a few times not knowing what to do a few times, but wasn't like camping a lane for 2 minutes. None of the games they lost were really his fault, but rather CLG as a whole didn't pick/play well. Voyboy lost them game 3 miscalculating his first fight with Jax and then letting him snowball. Could HS have played better? Sure. But he wasn't nearly as lacking as his solo queue games imo. I think he really needs to build better/differently because he never really builds damage items outside of wriggles unless he is farming out everyone else's lane.
CLG was really restricted in their pick options because Hotshot knows all of two or three junglers. They didn't pick Shyvana every game because she was a good pick, but because she's all Hotshot can play.
Hotshot simply isn't anywhere near tournament level as a jungler. He may not be nearly as lacking as he was initially, but he's still significantly lacking. |
| | Mondays with Monte: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384187 | Schrödinger's Elo |
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| ArC_man United States. May 25 2012 16:22. Posts 2354 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2012 16:03 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 13:56 beefhamburger wrote:
On May 25 2012 13:19 iCanada wrote:
On May 25 2012 12:58 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Watching hotshot jungle in these IPL qualifiers shows that he jungles how he thinks people jungle. He doesn't actually know what he's doing. There is more to clearing the jungle and ganking than clearing the jungle and ganking. Also he keeps building those stupid dorans shields.
Can't say I'm surprised... Voyboy is an incredible top laner, but honestly... You aint gonna find a jungler better than Saint. Saint sometimes does some dumb shit, but I've never seen him just get outclassed. Hotshot gets outclassed by people trolling in soloqueue... I didn't even have to watch to know in a tournament setting it went poorly.
Hotshot didn't do too badly in the IPL games. He had some good ganks and farmed decently. He wandered around a few times not knowing what to do a few times, but wasn't like camping a lane for 2 minutes. None of the games they lost were really his fault, but rather CLG as a whole didn't pick/play well. Voyboy lost them game 3 miscalculating his first fight with Jax and then letting him snowball. Could HS have played better? Sure. But he wasn't nearly as lacking as his solo queue games imo. I think he really needs to build better/differently because he never really builds damage items outside of wriggles unless he is farming out everyone else's lane.
CLG was really restricted in their pick options because Hotshot knows all of two or three junglers. They didn't pick Shyvana every game because she was a good pick, but because she's all Hotshot can play. Hotshot simply isn't anywhere near tournament level as a jungler. He may not be nearly as lacking as he was initially, but he's still significantly lacking.
Some of you guys are being too hard on HSGG. He's been focusing on jungling for ~2 weeks. You don't go from never jungling to tournament calibur in that short of time. |
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| ihasaKAROT Netherlands. May 25 2012 17:08. Posts 3360 | Profile Blog # |
| They are bringing it like hes the new SV tho, its their own vision that people are attacking them on. HSGG plays 3 champs top in the jungle, they might aswell just ban all 3 for a nice win there. |
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| gtrsrs United States. May 25 2012 17:35. Posts 4413 | Profile # |
wow, yikes
watching hotshot play skarner
yikes
as resident skarner expert, i can eagerly say do not watch hotshot stream if you want to improve at skarner |
| | TL-LoL's #1 Ahri, even better than Soloside. www.velocityesports.com |
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| JackDino Gabon. May 25 2012 17:46. Posts 3293 | Profile # |
On May 25 2012 17:35 gtrsrs wrote:
wow, yikes
watching hotshot play skarner
yikes
as resident skarner expert, i can eagerly say do not watch hotshot stream if you want to improve at skarner
This man is a liar, hotshot es da best and everything he plays es da best, if you want to be 1400 elo jangler do watch hotshot. |
| | This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb |
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| TheLink Australia. May 25 2012 17:52. Posts 852 | Profile # |
I am yet to see a Darius go less than 10-0 in lane.
One time it was a Darius mirror up top, my Darius went 14-0, their Darius was 0-8. Their Darius got a 2v4 quadra kill while our Darius was back at shop.
Fair. |
| | Only the weak link is strong enough to break the chain. |
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| Lmui Canada. May 25 2012 18:05. Posts 1896 | Profile # |
As a jungler, if there's a darius in my team, I make sure to camp top and snowball it as hard as possible. He's one of the few champions that can stop mid+bottom snowballs via gibbing the squishies in a fraction of a second. He's literally a melee leblanc. If you're below 80% health, he can and will oneshot you if you get within range once. I forsee serious a nerf to his ultimate from 20% per stack to around 15%, along with a 50 range reduction on his apprehend.
One other thing that I've had done was a darius + corki lane bottom. The range on his apprehend (550) is such that if darius is harassed by most AD carries (sivir, graves, vayne, corki etc), he can immediately apprehend and with a bursty AD (Trist, corki, varus) it's a even more deadly kill lane than leona or blitz. Despite the fact that he isn't getting farm, his damage from level 3-9 means that even supports like alistar have trouble. |
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| Xacez Sweden. May 25 2012 18:11. Posts 2358 | Profile # | |
| | Essence. Gotta Collect 'Em All. Zergmon! |
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| Alaric France. May 25 2012 18:20. Posts 8753 | Profile # |
| I saw "team OP" written plainly at the end, what does it say? Loco recruited by them? Last edit: 2012-05-25 18:20:46 |
| | "This build should be called the Neutron Bomb build - you can win by taking out all the people but leaving all the structures standing." - somebody about iEchoic's 2fac/2port (www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624) |
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| wussleeQ United States. May 25 2012 18:23. Posts 1627 | Profile Blog # |
| Played a fairly troll game with darius. Came up with a build of shurelias, randuins, BT, GA and wanted to get IE for last item. 2.8k hp fairly tanky and a lot of damage lol. Tbh, seems like a strong build on him. |
| | <3 TL. used to play bw now only play LoL and some dota. - twitch.tv/wesleyq |
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