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[G] Sase's PvP agressive 2 gate expo build

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy 1 2 3 4 5 All
 
 TechSc2   Netherlands. May 25 2012 04:27. Posts 277
Profile Blog # 
Intro

+ Show Spoiler +

Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +


Mid game Strategy
+ Show Spoiler +

Against 4 gate blink or blink robo:
+ Show Spoiler +

Against robo openings:
+ Show Spoiler +

Against DT openings:
+ Show Spoiler +

Against phoenix openings:
+ Show Spoiler +

Against 4 gate opening:
+ Show Spoiler +

When should I use this build??
+ Show Spoiler +





Replays!
+ Show Spoiler +


Current challenges
[spoiler]
getting a replay where opponent goes 3 gate robo and tries to bust my expansion with it. In order to survive this you warp in sentries to delay his push.
[spoiler]


If you have any replays of doing this build and wish me to have them attached to the thread pm me with the link to where i can download it, and tell me a little bit about what you did, and why.

If there is anything missing let me know, and if you can find any replay from Sase himself doing the build I would LOVE to add them to the thread. But for the time being like many other players that are in korea, they don’t give out any replays, and not even leak one!

Happy PvP hunting!
Last edit: 2012-05-26 01:16:28
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
Old Post

 
 GeorgeTheGorge   Canada. May 25 2012 04:58. Posts 54
Profile # 
Thank you!!! I've been looking for this for a while now.
Old Post

 
 Alex-Berker   United Kingdom. May 25 2012 05:01. Posts 117
Profile Blog # 
Seems great. Eill try it ut maybe post some replays. Wouldnt it be better for 3 guys on one gas and then on second gas add/remove probes as you need the gas? Ill pull out some numbers.
Check out my Blog at : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=339111  for me, a GM players FREE COACHING.   "Hold zerglings under mutas in a muta vs muta scenario to tank damage" -Thank you IdrA.
Old Post

 
 Mikelius   Germany. May 25 2012 05:07. Posts 498
Profile # 

On May 25 2012 05:01 DeluXe1337 wrote:
Seems great. Eill try it ut maybe post some replays. Wouldnt it be better for 3 guys on one gas and then on second gas add/remove probes as you need the gas? Ill pull out some numbers.

2 guys on 2 gases nets you more gas than 1 and 3 since you'll have a tiny delay with the 3rd probe waiting for the assim to clear.
Less QQ, more PewPew
Old Post

 
 TechSc2   Netherlands. May 25 2012 05:33. Posts 277
Profile Blog # 

On May 25 2012 05:01 DeluXe1337 wrote:
Seems great. Eill try it ut maybe post some replays. Wouldnt it be better for 3 guys on one gas and then on second gas add/remove probes as you need the gas? Ill pull out some numbers.


Like Mikelius said you will get more gas with 2 geysers running with 2 probes on each, then with 2 geysers with 3 on 1, and with 1 on the other. Besides that you cannot afford to put 3 probes in gas immediatly or otherwise you will miss your core timing by quite a bit and you will start floating gas sooner then you want to.

Two things that i don't have in the replays yet are 1 gate/1 gate robo expands. I really don't face them at all on ladder but once i face them i will post an update.

I would assume any 1 gate/1 gate robo expand has to sack the nexus in order to stay alive, but we'll see
Last edit: 2012-05-25 05:44:58
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
Old Post

 
 nSgNeverDie   France. May 25 2012 05:34. Posts 13
Profile # 
Nice guide, thanks !

I will try it and tell u what i think about it.
Old Post

 
 HExtw   Taiwan. May 25 2012 17:41. Posts 5
Profile # 
from build order part: "4 Additional stalkers out of your 3 gateways and spend all your chrono on them to get them out Asap."
don't you mean 2 gateways? i think is a typo

also no chrono at first stalker, so spend whatever chrono i have on the following 3 stalkers?
can you give me a reason why want them asap but no chrono on first stalker?

looks nice this build, gonna try it out after work this weekend
Old Post

 
 TechSc2   Netherlands. May 25 2012 18:19. Posts 277
Profile Blog # 

On May 25 2012 17:41 HExtw wrote:
from build order part: "4 Additional stalkers out of your 3 gateways and spend all your chrono on them to get them out Asap."
don't you mean 2 gateways? i think is a typo

also no chrono at first stalker, so spend whatever chrono i have on the following 3 stalkers?
can you give me a reason why want them asap but no chrono on first stalker?

looks nice this build, gonna try it out after work this weekend


Woops yes that first was a typo and is now fixed, thnx for pointing that out!

You don't want to chrono your first stalker because if you don't chrono it it will line up perfectly with your second gateway so you can start chronoing both gateways. You basically start up 2 stalkers once your 2 gateways are done and you can get 1 stalker out of your first without chrono in that time
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
Old Post

 
 Bakkendepao   Netherlands. May 25 2012 18:42. Posts 179
Profile # 
If you really care that much about your core, why would you go for a 13 gate? I can get my gate up at 1:33 with 12 supply and with 13 probes 1:38-1:40, its the 5 seconds that can make the difference. And what would you choose, 5 extra minerals or stalker that comes out 5 seconds quicker?
[1:11:58] محمد بن راشد آل مكتوم: >having a signature [1:11:58] محمد بن راشد آل مكتوم: what are you
Old Post

 
 fanvadmeck   Sweden. May 25 2012 19:24. Posts 112
Profile # 
In the DT defense replay, you didn't scout anything else than 3 stalkers before you put down your robo, it seemed like you knew before that he was going dts. According to chat it was probably because he told you he is going dt chargelot and you should have tried to defend it with a 2 robo build. If not what gave you the information to build a robo thinking he is going dts?
| Startale | Quantic | Liquid FTW!
Old Post

 
 TechSc2   Netherlands. May 25 2012 19:27. Posts 277
Profile Blog # 

On May 25 2012 18:42 Bakkendepao wrote:
If you really care that much about your core, why would you go for a 13 gate? I can get my gate up at 1:33 with 12 supply and with 13 probes 1:38-1:40, its the 5 seconds that can make the difference. And what would you choose, 5 extra minerals or stalker that comes out 5 seconds quicker?


Because with a 12 gate your gateway will be idle for about 10 seconds before you can start the first zealot, and with a 13 gate you don't have any delay. Besides that you cannot chrono twice in a row right after eachother when you get a 12 gateway, you will waste half a chrono when you do that.

Try out the build in a BO tester, and then compare it to yours and post the results, if you can get a smooth no bump build with the same amount of units at the same time or faster i'll be glad to hear it, but there is a reason why Sase does a 13 gate instead of a 12 one, it just fits better without cutting into probes, or having your gateways idle at any given point in time.



On May 25 2012 19:24 fanvadmeck wrote:
In the DT defense replay, you didn't scout anything else than 3 stalkers before you put down your robo, it seemed like you knew before that he was going dts. According to chat it was probably because he told you he is going dt chargelot and you should have tried to defend it with a 2 robo build. If not what gave you the information to build a robo thinking he is going dts?


We discussed a double robo follow up as a midgame strategy, so that you can start your double robo way before your opponent. Also he wanted to know the utmost safest follow up after i got my nexus up. besides that, entombed valley is a no go with blink, so most reasonable follow up would be a ultra fast colossus with an even faster double robo colossus if he expo's We didn't discuss the DT rush untill he actually did it.

a double robo follow up is only possible once you confirmed he is expoing as well. With my obs i saw no expo, thus i could only conclude a chargelot archon bust off 1 base
Last edit: 2012-05-25 19:31:42
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
Old Post

 
 Surili   United Kingdom. May 25 2012 19:28. Posts 1077
Profile Blog # 
I have been watching sase's stream recently. and a lot of his PvPs, and i was gonna steal this build myself and write the guide, so thank you for saving me the effort!

<3
"It is not a mistake to have strong views, it is a mistake to have nothing else." - Andrew Weston * * * Masters Protoss on EU.
Old Post

 
 -Kira   May 25 2012 19:37. Posts 352
Profile Blog # 
What do you do if someone moves out with 3 gate army +2 immortals right as your expansion finishes? Do you have enaugh forcefields to delay long enaugh untill you have better production?
Old Post

 
 Illias   Germany. May 25 2012 20:03. Posts 5
Profile # 
Really? You took THAT replay? I stand by what i said about 1 Base 1 colo all-in. It'll hit right as whatever tech you chose finishes up and you can't win a baserace with the few Stalkers you have unless your opponent is completely retarded (like me in that replay). I think what you have to do is snipe the colossus, sac your nexus at the natural and FF your main ramp while harassing your way ahead with blink or a warpprism (depending on what tech you chose). We should test that later today.
Old Post

 
 HoMM   Estonia. May 25 2012 20:32. Posts 561
Profile # 

On May 25 2012 20:03 Illias wrote:
Really? You took THAT replay? I stand by what i said about 1 Base 1 colo all-in. It'll hit right as whatever tech you chose finishes up and you can't win a baserace with the few Stalkers you have unless your opponent is completely retarded (like me in that replay). I think what you have to do is snipe the colossus, sac your nexus at the natural and FF your main ramp while harassing your way ahead with blink or a warpprism (depending on what tech you chose). We should test that later today.


Just go baserace, and while he kills your natural your blink will finish, and should be ez win if you baserace.
HoMM.998 | Masters protoss, I'm looking for a clan/team/practise partners, msg me (:
Old Post

 
 TechSc2   Netherlands. May 26 2012 01:11. Posts 277
Profile Blog # 

On May 25 2012 19:37 -Kira wrote:
What do you do if someone moves out with 3 gate army +2 immortals right as your expansion finishes? Do you have enaugh forcefields to delay long enaugh untill you have better production?


Good point, i will add that to the OP right now.

You warp in two sentries at his ramp if you cannot break him, and delay his push till you have your production up. If you delay his push by 30 seconds you will have a full warp in round off 5 gateways, if you warp in two more sentries you can delay even more and get another warp in round.

As soon as i come across this in a replay i will post the replay as well

@Illias

yes i took that replay because for the time being it's the best 1 base colossus build i've seen. We agreed that it's not THE best representation of the build but untill i have even better ones this will do

one of the replay shows a semi all-in baserace situation, where my build is tighter and i snipe his two colossis before he even gets to my ramp, check out the shakura's one.
Last edit: 2012-05-26 01:18:54
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
Old Post

 
 Immaterial   United States. May 26 2012 04:23. Posts 319
Profile Blog # 
Many thanks for posting this strategy, I was wondering what the exact build was. Will watch the replays now.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Old Post

 
 Nyast   Belgium. May 26 2012 06:11. Posts 499
Profile # 
Watched the replays, and although I kind of like the opening ( til ~5'30 ) I'm less than convinced about that early expo.

First of all, I think it's a BO loss against stuff such as 4-gate warp prism. You're only on 2 gates at that time. It's not that likely to happen in ladder, especially since you're pressuring, which forces your opponent on the defensive. But against somebody who scouts and recognizes that build ( the 2 zealots and delayed core sell it ), I think the best you could do is attempt a base trade, and even that I don't think you'd win.

I'm also sceptikal about the early blink timings ( the greedy one, 1 gate blink that hits before 8' ). Do you have replays versus that ?
Old Post

 
 MrHighlight   United States. May 26 2012 07:37. Posts 43
Profile # 

On May 26 2012 06:11 Nyast wrote:
Watched the replays, and although I kind of like the opening ( til ~5'30 ) I'm less than convinced about that early expo.

First of all, I think it's a BO loss against stuff such as 4-gate warp prism. You're only on 2 gates at that time. It's not that likely to happen in ladder, especially since you're pressuring, which forces your opponent on the defensive. But against somebody who scouts and recognizes that build ( the 2 zealots and delayed core sell it ), I think the best you could do is attempt a base trade, and even that I don't think you'd win.

I'm also sceptikal about the early blink timings ( the greedy one, 1 gate blink that hits before 8' ). Do you have replays versus that ?


No build is full proof. Ever. If it were, everyone would use it 100% of the time. If you scout appropriately, you'll know if you're safe.
Old Post

 
 TechSc2   Netherlands. May 26 2012 08:59. Posts 277
Profile Blog # 

On May 26 2012 06:11 Nyast wrote:
Watched the replays, and although I kind of like the opening ( til ~5'30 ) I'm less than convinced about that early expo.

First of all, I think it's a BO loss against stuff such as 4-gate warp prism. You're only on 2 gates at that time. It's not that likely to happen in ladder, especially since you're pressuring, which forces your opponent on the defensive. But against somebody who scouts and recognizes that build ( the 2 zealots and delayed core sell it ), I think the best you could do is attempt a base trade, and even that I don't think you'd win.

I'm also sceptikal about the early blink timings ( the greedy one, 1 gate blink that hits before 8' ). Do you have replays versus that ?


If opponent plays greedy he will die or at least suffer lots of eco damage. If for some reason you do no damage with your push to a 1 gate greedy tech build, you still have barely enough time to get back home and get 1 immortal out before his blink timing hits.

Warp prism 4 gate i didn't face for a long long time, so that might have some good potential so once i will face it, i will add it to the OP
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
Old Post

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