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| sylverfyre United States. June 12 2012 04:58. Posts 4123 | Profile # |
On June 12 2012 04:04 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 03:50 HughMyron wrote:
On June 12 2012 03:48 Mogwai wrote:
On June 12 2012 03:26 HughMyron wrote:Heh, I don't see anything beating Darius in lane, maybe Cait and Kennen can farm safely against him, but I tried playing Nidalee and got murdered (auto range too low  ). Not sure what to do, permaban him for the next few weeks?
he might not have much more in the way of nerfs coming. learn teemo and kayle and call for ganks when you need them. drag the game past 30 minutes and go nuts.
Sadly, I think you're right huehuehue. Knowing Riot though, they'll probably change Bleed to Physical (The Irelia treatment)
right, the irelia treatment that still leaves her with more repeatable true damage than you can shake a stick at. yep, totally killed that character -_-. Irelia's still stupid strong and scales harder than any other bruiser in the game. If you give Darius that treatment, it's gg for him because he'll never be able to compete with 75 true damage/attack + 6 second base CD dash + 8 second CD stun/slow.
What does Kayle have on Darius that Nidalee doesn't? (Honest question)Last edit: 2012-06-12 04:58:42 |
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| Mogwai United States. June 12 2012 05:09. Posts 8012 | Profile Blog # |
| a lot more damage with the harass, especially due to the Q slow + damage amplification and then lolult to counter his ult. |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |
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| obesechicken13 United States. June 12 2012 07:33. Posts 4197 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 03:18 sylverfyre wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:05 obesechicken13 wrote:
Cait's probably fine though. Her range is 650 AA vs Darius' 550 spell range and she has an instant blink. I've said this before, but caitlyn is kinda like the safest pick in the game. She counters so many champions in a 1v1 lane: standing toe to toe with urgot, beating all the AD's, and all the melees that I can think of, as well as a few of the APs, and going even against most champs, falling off midgame, to become a force late game.
I agree, though I wouldn't exactly call caitlyn's net-throw instant. Her problems top are mostly related to 300 movespeed and junglers showing up. Her net throw is probably slow enough that if you tried using it when Darius is like a step away from being close enough to E you, he would get the E off before you move away via net. It's really obnoxious. And once he's on you... you're just dead. God forbid the enemy team has a maokai jungle or something else that will ensure that darius can get on you. I feel like Kennen or similar would have the best time against him. Harass from range but if he does grab you, you can stun & run to win the trade.
Yes, cait's net does have a chargeup time, but so does Darius' E and cait's net always goes off. So if cait gets grabbed and nets during the grab, she'll get rocketed out as if the grab never happened. (I just learned this recently) and if she just keeps her distance, and wards, I don't see junglers (without oracles/pink) being a problem either. |
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| Requizen United States. June 12 2012 11:51. Posts 7268 | Profile Blog # |
| Hey Smash, what are you building anyway? I really feel like I need to build tank, because I get focus-fired and end up soaking up most of the damage, so I've been doing Wriggles/Merc's (for lane sustain) into Phage/Hex/Glacial -> FMallet/Maw/FH. Should I be getting a HoG early and doing Randuin's at some point, and maybe an Aegis somewhere? Or are you building more straight damage (though that seems not good in the long run to me)? |
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| sylverfyre United States. June 12 2012 13:49. Posts 4123 | Profile # |
On June 12 2012 07:33 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 03:18 sylverfyre wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:05 obesechicken13 wrote:
Cait's probably fine though. Her range is 650 AA vs Darius' 550 spell range and she has an instant blink. I've said this before, but caitlyn is kinda like the safest pick in the game. She counters so many champions in a 1v1 lane: standing toe to toe with urgot, beating all the AD's, and all the melees that I can think of, as well as a few of the APs, and going even against most champs, falling off midgame, to become a force late game.
I agree, though I wouldn't exactly call caitlyn's net-throw instant. Her problems top are mostly related to 300 movespeed and junglers showing up. Her net throw is probably slow enough that if you tried using it when Darius is like a step away from being close enough to E you, he would get the E off before you move away via net. It's really obnoxious. And once he's on you... you're just dead. God forbid the enemy team has a maokai jungle or something else that will ensure that darius can get on you. I feel like Kennen or similar would have the best time against him. Harass from range but if he does grab you, you can stun & run to win the trade.
Yes, cait's net does have a chargeup time, but so does Darius' E and cait's net always goes off. So if cait gets grabbed and nets during the grab, she'll get rocketed out as if the grab never happened. (I just learned this recently) and if she just keeps her distance, and wards, I don't see junglers (without oracles/pink) being a problem either.
I am 100% certain that's not what happens when EVERY other displacement effect hits cait during her net movement. Seen / been hit by naut grabs, blitz grabs, headbutts, and more, and net does shit all. Even just a stun landing on cait will stop her net movement.
@smash - makes sense. Kinda frustrating though. Maybe I should just pick up kayle top - I guess her early game doesn't play THAT much differently from Nidalee pre-6.Last edit: 2012-06-12 13:50:12 |
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| Lmui Canada. June 12 2012 13:55. Posts 1887 | Profile # |
On June 12 2012 13:49 sylverfyre wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 07:33 obesechicken13 wrote:
On June 12 2012 03:18 sylverfyre wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:05 obesechicken13 wrote:
Cait's probably fine though. Her range is 650 AA vs Darius' 550 spell range and she has an instant blink. I've said this before, but caitlyn is kinda like the safest pick in the game. She counters so many champions in a 1v1 lane: standing toe to toe with urgot, beating all the AD's, and all the melees that I can think of, as well as a few of the APs, and going even against most champs, falling off midgame, to become a force late game.
I agree, though I wouldn't exactly call caitlyn's net-throw instant. Her problems top are mostly related to 300 movespeed and junglers showing up. Her net throw is probably slow enough that if you tried using it when Darius is like a step away from being close enough to E you, he would get the E off before you move away via net. It's really obnoxious. And once he's on you... you're just dead. God forbid the enemy team has a maokai jungle or something else that will ensure that darius can get on you. I feel like Kennen or similar would have the best time against him. Harass from range but if he does grab you, you can stun & run to win the trade.
Yes, cait's net does have a chargeup time, but so does Darius' E and cait's net always goes off. So if cait gets grabbed and nets during the grab, she'll get rocketed out as if the grab never happened. (I just learned this recently) and if she just keeps her distance, and wards, I don't see junglers (without oracles/pink) being a problem either.
I am 100% certain that's not what happens when EVERY other displacement effect hits cait during her net movement. Seen / been hit by naut grabs, blitz grabs, headbutts, and more, and net does shit all. Even just a stun landing on cait will stop her net movement. @smash - makes sense. Kinda frustrating though. Maybe I should just pick up kayle top - I guess her early game doesn't play THAT much differently from Nidalee pre-6.
It depends on if she's moving or not. If she's moving, she'll always move the full distance, however, if she's stationary at the beginning of her cast, the other displacement will take precedence. |
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| Mogwai United States. June 12 2012 23:09. Posts 8012 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 11:51 Requizen wrote:
Hey Smash, what are you building anyway? I really feel like I need to build tank, because I get focus-fired and end up soaking up most of the damage, so I've been doing Wriggles/Merc's (for lane sustain) into Phage/Hex/Glacial -> FMallet/Maw/FH. Should I be getting a HoG early and doing Randuin's at some point, and maybe an Aegis somewhere? Or are you building more straight damage (though that seems not good in the long run to me)?
it's all in the guide. |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |
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| Requizen United States. June 13 2012 01:32. Posts 7268 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 23:09 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 11:51 Requizen wrote:
Hey Smash, what are you building anyway? I really feel like I need to build tank, because I get focus-fired and end up soaking up most of the damage, so I've been doing Wriggles/Merc's (for lane sustain) into Phage/Hex/Glacial -> FMallet/Maw/FH. Should I be getting a HoG early and doing Randuin's at some point, and maybe an Aegis somewhere? Or are you building more straight damage (though that seems not good in the long run to me)?
it's all in the guide.
Ah, didn't know if you'd changed it up since the first inception, know you've been playing him almost non-stop when he's not banned lol. |
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| Mogwai United States. June 13 2012 01:59. Posts 8012 | Profile Blog # |
On June 13 2012 01:32 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:09 Mogwai wrote:
On June 12 2012 11:51 Requizen wrote:
Hey Smash, what are you building anyway? I really feel like I need to build tank, because I get focus-fired and end up soaking up most of the damage, so I've been doing Wriggles/Merc's (for lane sustain) into Phage/Hex/Glacial -> FMallet/Maw/FH. Should I be getting a HoG early and doing Randuin's at some point, and maybe an Aegis somewhere? Or are you building more straight damage (though that seems not good in the long run to me)?
it's all in the guide.
Ah, didn't know if you'd changed it up since the first inception, know you've been playing him almost non-stop when he's not banned lol.
yea, not really. Still typically looks like double dblade or wriggles -> HoG -> Phage -> BT (optional) -> defensive shit as necessary, Omen and GA being my current top 2 picks. |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |
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| Requizen United States. June 13 2012 02:34. Posts 7268 | Profile Blog # |
On June 13 2012 01:59 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 01:32 Requizen wrote:
On June 12 2012 23:09 Mogwai wrote:
On June 12 2012 11:51 Requizen wrote:
Hey Smash, what are you building anyway? I really feel like I need to build tank, because I get focus-fired and end up soaking up most of the damage, so I've been doing Wriggles/Merc's (for lane sustain) into Phage/Hex/Glacial -> FMallet/Maw/FH. Should I be getting a HoG early and doing Randuin's at some point, and maybe an Aegis somewhere? Or are you building more straight damage (though that seems not good in the long run to me)?
it's all in the guide.
Ah, didn't know if you'd changed it up since the first inception, know you've been playing him almost non-stop when he's not banned lol.
yea, not really. Still typically looks like double dblade or wriggles -> HoG -> Phage -> BT (optional) -> defensive shit as necessary, Omen and GA being my current top 2 picks.
I've honestly found the BT very optional as of late. It's great if you're dunking left and right in lane, but I'd often get defensive stuff earlier since I'm almost tanking teamfights (always focus the Darius, never not focus him), but then again I'm nowhere near your ELO  |
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| Mogwai United States. June 13 2012 02:44. Posts 8012 | Profile Blog # |
| BT is actually typically when I'm not doing as well nowadays. If you're dunking hard, they start to focus you and you do better with defensive items. If you're getting shut down a bit, BT lets you randomly explode for crazy triples in midgame teamfights that pull you back into the game. |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |
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| Requizen United States. June 13 2012 04:15. Posts 7268 | Profile Blog # |
Hm, hadn't thought of it like that, will keep it in mind in coming games.
Bleh, screw it, can't play this guy. Prefer champs that have high mobility and sustain. I play too passive in laning phase to do anything effective.Last edit: 2012-06-13 07:06:18 |
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| HughMyron June 13 2012 07:38. Posts 90 | Profile # |
Just saw a Lee Sin get an asst against this guy from a jungle invade. Then I ganked his lane and got him a kill. And still he got completely derped on in laning. It was kinda sad to watch.
Then again, a lot of Lee matchups are based on player skill, but I'm not sure about this one.Last edit: 2012-06-13 07:39:34 |
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| obesechicken13 United States. June 13 2012 08:11. Posts 4197 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 13:49 sylverfyre wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 07:33 obesechicken13 wrote:
On June 12 2012 03:18 sylverfyre wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:05 obesechicken13 wrote:
Cait's probably fine though. Her range is 650 AA vs Darius' 550 spell range and she has an instant blink. I've said this before, but caitlyn is kinda like the safest pick in the game. She counters so many champions in a 1v1 lane: standing toe to toe with urgot, beating all the AD's, and all the melees that I can think of, as well as a few of the APs, and going even against most champs, falling off midgame, to become a force late game.
I agree, though I wouldn't exactly call caitlyn's net-throw instant. Her problems top are mostly related to 300 movespeed and junglers showing up. Her net throw is probably slow enough that if you tried using it when Darius is like a step away from being close enough to E you, he would get the E off before you move away via net. It's really obnoxious. And once he's on you... you're just dead. God forbid the enemy team has a maokai jungle or something else that will ensure that darius can get on you. I feel like Kennen or similar would have the best time against him. Harass from range but if he does grab you, you can stun & run to win the trade.
Yes, cait's net does have a chargeup time, but so does Darius' E and cait's net always goes off. So if cait gets grabbed and nets during the grab, she'll get rocketed out as if the grab never happened. (I just learned this recently) and if she just keeps her distance, and wards, I don't see junglers (without oracles/pink) being a problem either.
I am 100% certain that's not what happens when EVERY other displacement effect hits cait during her net movement. Seen / been hit by naut grabs, blitz grabs, headbutts, and more, and net does shit all. Even just a stun landing on cait will stop her net movement. @smash - makes sense. Kinda frustrating though. Maybe I should just pick up kayle top - I guess her early game doesn't play THAT much differently from Nidalee pre-6.
Yeah that's because secondary movement inducers always take precedence. I'm not sure if stuns stop her from moving. But whenever Darius grabs cait, if the net goes off after, cait's net should take precedence. Anyways this is theorycraft. If you don't believe cait can monstrously beat darius in lane then keep playing what you want. |
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| justiceknight Singapore. June 13 2012 18:43. Posts 2466 | Profile Blog # |
| does the W combo with his Q? like W > Q and deals additional damage + slow |
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| Sven Stryker United States. June 13 2012 22:39. Posts 187 | Profile # |
| W only affects the next basic attack, not abilities like Q and R. |
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| Mogwai United States. June 15 2012 01:41. Posts 8012 | Profile Blog # | |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |
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| Cloud Sexico. June 17 2012 02:56. Posts 5603 | Profile Blog # |
| I feel like this guy needs some serious mana nerfs. Not being able to last hit because this guy can Q->auto->W->E->auto->Q whenever you get close for no mana is so dumb. |
| | BlueLaguna on West, msg for game. | |
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| Sven Stryker United States. June 17 2012 08:15. Posts 187 | Profile # |
40+30+45+40= nothing
Darius has 312.5 mana at level 3 when he could first cast that combo.
That nothing is 155 mana, which is half of his level 3 mana bar.
At level 5, which is the last time he'd use that combo without having Ult, it'd be 155/387.5 or 40% of his mana.
Level 6 and onward, you'd want to keep another 100 mana available for Darius's Ult. |
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| Cloud Sexico. June 19 2012 03:59. Posts 5603 | Profile Blog # |
On June 17 2012 08:15 Sven Stryker wrote:
40+30+45+40= nothing
Darius has 312.5 mana at level 3 when he could first cast that combo.
That nothing is 155 mana, which is half of his level 3 mana bar.
At level 5, which is the last time he'd use that combo without having Ult, it'd be 155/387.5 or 40% of his mana.
Level 6 and onward, you'd want to keep another 100 mana available for Darius's Ult.
Compare it to jax. At level 3 a full combo: -> Q->W->E costs 165 mana, while he has 335 mana at level 3. One less ability than darius, less damage and the same relative mana cost. Heck even just E->Q which is what you sometimes need to get away from him costs 135 mana which is more than the 115 mana from a darius full combo.
My point is that the problem with darius is not his damage or the fact that you can't build full defense against him. The problem with him is that everyone will get into mana issues by just trying to trade with him, getting away from him or trying to sustain against him.
Energy champions like shen run into the same problem because you actually become energy starved while all he has to do is land 40 mana nukes from a safe distance whose cost doesn't scale at all. If they made him a manaless champion with just cooldowns like riven i doubt there would be much difference at all vs him in lane.
Edit: Messed a bit of the math there.Last edit: 2012-06-19 04:18:44 |
| | BlueLaguna on West, msg for game. | |
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