ALL beliefs from EVERY religion are completely applicable to this thread, because this is a thread on "personal" beliefs. Note that I expect any religion bashing will result in fast closure of this thread which is really depressing because I find the topic rather interesting, and that I will personally be pming mods if anyone say's hateful/ignorant comments that go against someones belief structure.
Furthermore, any debate related to the "likely hood" of a persons "belief" is also accepted as long as it is purely scientific and does not relate to "faith or personal belief related to scripture that is not factual science"... By this I hope we stay away from "my religions better than yours mentality".
In the end, be respectful and this should be fine....
This video is Alan Watts discussing his perspective on how everything is "nothingness" and discusses a few topics related to Buddhism philosophy. I found it particularly interesting because it directly relates to our beginning and our end, as a species and even the larger picture as the universe.
I am looking for this thread to discuss three topics, which are opinions based on your own personal beliefs.
A) After watching the video, what do you take away from it? Do you agree, or disagree? Does it affect your own belief structure? (if it doesn't, that is totally fine!)
B) What do you think will happen when you die? When family members die? (Please, you can just say what you think, but try and back this up with something (religion/science/void etc... literally anything, but I kind of want this to be deeper than just "well I hope this is what happens", this isn't about what you hope, but what you think)
C) Do you believe that Alan Watts has a valid point? Does our universe come from nothingness, and that all of our petty fears don't truly matter because in the end it's all nothingness? (off topic slightly, but based on how all our achievements are nothing but dust, "monopoly from zeitgeist"+ Show Spoiler +
I use to have a very morbid approach, personally related to my father's death and having no religious beliefs, that it just ended (turned into dust and memory faded) but recently took CWR (comparative world religions) and though I generally am agnostic, and prefer to attempt not to comprehend things I truly can't understand, my outlook (especially after finding this video which put words to all of my feelings) improved greatly.
Do I think I matter? Yes, at this moment, at this time... I want to change the world, go into politics and actually give a damn about people, raise money for charity... But do I think in the "big" picture any of us matter? In our own minds, yes, but generally no... Everything is just a tiny spec on the galactic timeline, almost as useless as keeping 1.00EE-100 places on each separate number while calculating equations.
TL;DR: Ok, so to conclude, follow A, B & C topics (answer all or just one/two) and BE RESPECTFUL PLEASE! (MUST WATCH VIDEO TO POST AND READ GUIDELINES!)
Community Edits! Here I will add any relevant youtube videos (ones that are related to the beginning/end and I deem are immensely interesting) that anyone adds and/or comments that boast an extremely interesting perspective/idea about any of the three topics (or all)
On May 26 2012 10:21 HawaiianPig wrote: If nothing we do matters... then all that matters is what we do.
RodrigoX (Very interesting idea, relating to philosophy) + Show Spoiler +
On May 26 2012 08:40 RodrigoX wrote: This video is a very secular perspective. It is essentially making sense of the secular perspective concerning death. However, I think this is not where the argument should be. If you read further, I think an actual argument that will go somewhere will happen.
I'm going to try and be incredibly deep here.
Now, speaking in terms of philosophy, as a human being. You have lots of questions to answer. You have lots of unknowns to define. You have areas of anthropology, cosmology, ontology, epistemology, ethical questions, political questions, economic questions. You have things to figure out. Death is one of them.
Now, the question is, how do we define things like death, life, what is right and wrong, all the above areas. Well, how do we define anything? We define things based on comparisons. Right light, and dark, good and evil, everyone has heard this before. But it does go farther than opposites. How do I know what a BMW is? I compare it to a prius. I really know what a BMW is if I compare it to a horse, a baseball glove. I know if I take gasoline, and compare it to all the things that a car has, I would figure out that gasoline would make the car run. Right, the more things there are, the better I can define something.
So, therefore we argue, that if I was to know about something, It would be best to know one hundred percent of that something. And if everything, helps me define everything, I will only know 100 percent about one individual thing, if I know every single individual thing and use each one to compare them to each other.
So thus comes into question, is that where do "things" end. Now we come into realms where people should know something. Right, do we end things at the ends of human perception (the 5 senses (6 if you count body language) or do we go beyond the senses, and go into outside of human perception, the supernatural, where God, Nirvana among other religions would exist and end "things" there.
This is now where Im getting back to the first paragraph. People get very very confused when arguing or debating. You know, people debate whether gays should marry or not. Essentially that is going to get you nowhere, if a Christian is taking the identity and characteristics of God, and comparing them to the concept of homosexuality, and an atheist isn't. You have completely different definitions of the concept of homosexuality, and it is impossible to get anywhere if you are defining things differently.
So now, the question really is, where do "things" end. Essentially we just need to know about everything that exists. Right, if there are infinite things, we are never going to get a 100 percent definition of something. An "end" can happen anywhere. Lets say that there is just a proton and an atom in the universe, and that is all that exists. Right I would know 100 percent of the universe. I know a proton makes up an atom and an atom is made up of protons. That is all I could possibly know in the universe. And thats the goal really.
So to skip a few steps, we can say, that I can have 100 percent of a definition in a closed system. Right, so essentially, that I could just use my 5 senses, the limit of my human perception and succeed in knowing everything. I would know the right answer to all ethical questions because i compared each to everything in the universe, and what works and what doesn't. So we don't need more than our senses to have 100 percent of a definition. So saying that, why would we go outside of our senses, giving faith (which is not an optimal thing to do) that there is a supernatural plain of existence (a very complicated subject speaking of) that I can use to define things, when I could not do the action of faith, which is suboptimal to have a definitive answer to the question of death, life, and right and wrong.
Jockmcplop(Alan watts on point of view, past present and how event's are just observed and they don't really exist) + Show Spoiler +
On May 26 2012 22:49 Jockmcplop wrote:
I think its best to refer back to Alan Watts on this point maybe....
There is some VERY conrtaversial thinking in this piece
On May 29 2012 12:32 Veldril wrote: Wow, I didn't know that there are people who study about Bhuddism in TL.
As a Theravada Buddhist, I think there's some misconception I need to clarify first. I will try not going too deep.
1. The concept of "Nothingness" comes from the "Three Nature of Things (Tri-Lakkhana)" in Bhuddism. We believe that everything is "Uncertainty (anicca)", "Spontaneosly Change (Dhukka, which can be interpreted as Suffering too but there's more meaning than that)", and "Uncontrollable (Anatta, which also means non-self)". As things are constantly changing without "ourselves" being able to control, the concept of "Sunyatta" or "Nothingness" is used to described this state of "emptiness" of the world.
It also means the state of mind when a person reaches a realization of "the world is empty of self or anything pertaining to self".
2. Meditation is not a way of escaping the reality. Rather, it is about facing the reality while being fully concious. To explain more, there is two types of meditation, Samatha meditation, and Vipassana meditation. The former is about sharpening the mind to the finest point, which is not really applicable in the real life. Vipassana, on the other hand, is about staying "concious" and realize what is happening in the present in the finest detail. For example, when doing Vipassana meditaion, one would realize how the air we breath come in and out, which part of the body expand when we inhale, which part we ache, etc. The key is that we realize those things and then look at how it happen, staying there and then fade away.
How this tie to the concept of "nothingness"? Well, there's a saying for Bhuddhist that "to live in the present", which means being concious of the present in the finest detail. And meditation is used to realize step by step how things are "nothingness". It's something you have to tried an experience by yourself but you will realize when trying that you can't stop the part we ache even you scream so lound within yourselve, but it will fade away in time without being controlled at all.
3. Bhuddism at its core is about trying to get rid of concept of "self" or "belonging to self".
Now to OP's questions:
A.) Nothingness is a part of Nibbana and so it's the key part of Bhuddism. I experince a part of it once during my meditation practice camp so I would say I have to believe in it
B.) I don't think about "death" as much because as I said above, it is more important to try to live in the present. I believe there's no point thinking about it and trying to practice our mind to stay concious all of the time is more important.
C.) It's really hard to describe but I see "nothingness" in term of "lack of self of everything" because we cannot really control things, both ourselves and surrounding. Things have value because we assign those values to it, and that's all.
Aelfric shows "ThereminTrees" video about death, it is very emotional but compelling nonetheless + Show Spoiler +
On May 29 2012 03:37 Aelfric wrote: I think it would be useful to share ThereminTrees' videos about death:
Tofucake going extremely indepth about nothingness and taking the meaning to its core + Show Spoiler +
On May 30 2012 05:43 tofucake wrote:
Any Book or Novel entries are edited in here, with the users name/book! Post away!
MAJOR THREAD EDIT ON PMING ME ABOUT DETAILS REGARDING THIS THREAD, PLEASE READ. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck you, next time be more respectful and take the bickering to pms instead of derailing your own thread moron.
sent by sovern
Posts such as this are not to be sent please, it really has no taste, I mean first this poster who's named Sovern decides to argue in a thread about others beliefs when it's completely against the threads policy and implies he know the answers(or at least insinuates by exclaiming others are so ridiculous)... So he has trouble reading in general obviously, continuing, than he posts about respect while starting his PM "fuck you" which is entirely hypocritical and then implies me (the guy who started, and has been constantly updating and watching the threads progress) as derailing this thread...
So again, as a disclaimer, all posters who post here please if you want me to add content PM ME! if you want to voice your opinion about how I am moderating my own thread, please PM ME! if you want to act like an idiot and throw shit at the walls, this isn't your cage curious george, thank you, Nemesis3.
B) The greatest thing I found I can relate to with "nothingness", is that we were all nothing for billions of years before we were born. We've spent a million+ times longer being "nothing" than we have being...us. I'm not scared of the "nothingness" in death, in practicality It's a much more natural state to us than life, my fear just comes from missing the people I love. I know this doesn't actually make sense though, because what can you miss when you're nothing? Not sure how I can justify it
Last edit: 2012-05-26 05:19:51
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
A) I work on ambulances, and I've seen death and suffering in many forms. I've seen a lot of ways the humans can cope with death, with the feeling of impending doom that one day will definitively come and I've come to the conclusion that no one can judge how someone perceives death. Being it religious values or whatever.
But I cannot buy phylosophical/religious answers, nor this reflection you posted: it feels like a mathematical demonstration and while we can consider the universe in its whole it doesn't change the fact that at the end of everything we are all alone and focused on ourselves. I cannot consider myself as a part of everything (even if I am), or better: my vision it's too subjective and these words consider too much the whole picture...
B) I'll become food for worms and the same will be for everyone. If that's good, bad, sad or whatever it's up to everyone to judge: imo death gives our life a meaning and surely I wouldn't like to live forever.
C) I think that reasoning like this can be... dunno, 'useful' as long as they don't make the individual fall into the trap of stasys ("since nothing has meaning it's pointless for me to do anything").
Talking about personal views about life it's tricky, since everyone tend to think of his own view as the 'correct' one and is generally more concentrated on finding the flaws on the others' view... if people will manage to discuss politely we could learn something.
My personal wish is just to live a happy life and make the others' life happier: what happens or doesn't happen after it's not my concern. Don't know if my answer sounds deep or immature... truth is that after you see people of any age die for stupid reasons or hearing dying people's thoughts you start not to care anymore.
On May 26 2012 05:17 MavivaM wrote: A) I work on ambulances, and I've seen death and suffering in many forms. I've seen a lot of ways the humans can cope with death, with the feeling of impending doom that one day will definitively come and I've come to the conclusion that no one can judge how someone perceives death. Being it religious values or whatever.
But I cannot buy phylosophical/religious answers, nor this reflection you posted: it feels like a mathematical demonstration and while we can consider the universe in its whole it doesn't change the fact that at the end of everything we are all alone and focused on ourselves. I cannot consider myself as a part of everything (even if I am), or better: my vision it's too subjective and these words consider too much the whole picture...
B) I'll become food for worms and the same will be for everyone. If that's good, bad, sad or whatever it's up to everyone to judge: imo death gives our life a meaning and surely I wouldn't like to live forever.
C) I think that reasoning like this can be... dunno, 'useful' as long as they don't make the individual fall into the trap of stasys ("since nothing has meaning it's pointless for me to do anything").
Talking about personal views about life it's tricky, since everyone tend to think of his own view as the 'correct' one and is generally more concentrated on finding the flaws on the others' view... if people will manage to discuss politely we could learn something.
My personal wish is just to live a happy life and make the others' life happier: what happens or doesn't happen after it's not my concern. Don't know if my answer sounds deep or immature... truth is that after you see people of any age die for stupid reasons or hearing dying people's thoughts you start not to care anymore.
The "deepness" of a conversation is up to the persons subjective mind, I believe your comment is completely true and yet I also believe it is subject to change... I have an odd perspective, very similar to Quantum Theory where everything is everything, and nothing at the same time. I very much enjoy your answer, though slightly cynical, you posses the will to live a happy life and help others (make others happy) and care not for what we can't grasp. What's better than that? People being for other people.
I would like to make a stance on your A) point,
I cannot consider myself as a part of everything (even if I am), or better: my vision it's too subjective and these words consider too much the whole picture...
You see, in a literal sense (after the big bang) we're all matter (which came from the Higgs field) but I believe that it is very difficult to understand that, to understand that I am equal to you because we have such different levels of thought, such different personality's... But like a snowflake, which there are never two equal ones, that at the end of the tunnel is simply water (H2O), I also believe we are all pure on the deepest of levels, no matter the persona and that in the end we are all simply nothing, but everything at the same time.
Whether or not everything is nothingness doesn't change the fact that I have to be really practical in daily life so I can eat and have a roof over my head. Although I do agree that most people's worries are extremely petty.
I've read a fair amount from Buddhists. Their message sounds nice but of course its all easy for them to say this when they don't have to make a living for themselves and they don't have the pressures of daily life that most people have. Its just hard for me to believe they'd be preaching what they do if they didn't have a living space and daily food and health care all provided for free.
On May 26 2012 05:40 Mossen wrote: Whether or not everything is nothingness doesn't change the fact that I have to be really practical in daily life so I can eat and have a roof over my head. Although I do agree that most people's worries are extremely petty.
I've read a fair amount from Buddhists. Their message sounds nice but of course its all easy for them to say this when they don't have to make a living for themselves and they don't have the pressures of daily life that most people have. Its just hard for me to believe they'd be preaching what they do if they didn't have a living space and daily food and health care all provided for free.
Having to deal with everyday life doesn't necessarly mean not to question yourself about life or universe. Also sometimes you have to consider the message rather than who is speaking, because generalisations are always dangerous: hearing a preaching about happiness and poverty from a wwealthy bishop or a missionary who works his ass everyday and sacrificed his life for the poors makes the same message gain a completely different meaning.
On May 26 2012 05:54 MavivaM wrote: Having to deal with everyday life doesn't necessarly mean not to question yourself about life or universe. Also sometimes you have to consider the message rather than who is speaking, because generalisations are always dangerous: hearing a preaching about happiness and poverty from a wwealthy bishop or a missionary who works his ass everyday and sacrificed his life for the poors makes the same message gain a completely different meaning.
I see your point. Although in that case, what useful thing are we meant to take away from the message that "everything is nothingness"? What is his point in delivering this speech? If it is meant for a general audience I think it would be lost on most people. Is it to just not worry about stuff? Is it a speech asking people to rethink mainstream society? What do you get out of it?
AgentChaos United Kingdom. May 26 2012 06:06. Posts 4563
On May 26 2012 06:06 AgentChaos wrote: i think we are just living in the matrix, lying there trapping in a coma pretending everything is existing and when you die you just simply die
Curious, if that is the case (similar to the matrix) then why is there so much distress? The one thing I remember from the matrix was absolute order inside the matrix, with a few "renegade's" fighting against the machines. Don't you think all of this "freedom" would be smacked down?
Furthering that, I believe you didn't elaborate much on why you think this, so could you go into why you think this is the case? What makes you believe that we are in the "matrix"?
I think Buddhism / Will to Nothing / Eastern Asceticism is a rejection of life, an anesthetizing doctrine for the masses, and ultimately not a fulfilling way to live. Its seduction is the superficial relief it provides to vain lifestyle (nihilists believe all lifestyles are vain), but that doesn't mean a purposeful lifestyle is not worth pursuing.
If you enjoy asceticism too much, you'll starve to death.
For a deep analysis, read Will to Power by Nietzsche.
I'm glad that there is nothing after we die. I'd much rather live my life on my own terms and cease to exist, than subscribe to the beliefs and rituals of others in hopes that some magical world beyond this own.
Accepting that we only get one life makes its much more meaningful, at least to me.
A) i strongly disagree with the idea that nothingness is somehow "pure" or "clean" or has any attribute whatsoever, including the attribute of not having an attribute. it is such a thing that it cannot be described or even talked about or even thought about because it is not a thing or an "it" at all, but is simply not. even saying that: that it is nothing, or that it is "not" that right there gives it an attribute which makes it something, not nothing.
his entire philosophy is that nothingness is somehow desirable, or is the natural state of man and the universe. nothingness cannot have definition, and thus cannot be "real" or even be conceived so that one could begin desiring it. nothingness is not depressing as depression is a fact of life and existence, not of nothingness. there can be no feeling in nothing, nor can there be any desire for it or against it. nothingness has no nature, and nothingness cannot impose itself upon nature. also, dreams are not "nothings".
B) i believe that we will die this death, and that we will be judged according to our individual worth and actions. will we be seen as worthy of our life and our choices? i don't believe so. i believe that we are in a state of utter rebellion, and as long as we remain in such a state that we are absolutely unworthy of anything. even after we have ended our rebellion, the stain of it still remains, and nothing we do can wash it clean, for one cannot use unclean water to wash an unclean dish. one must have pure and clean water. i believe we will see that pure and clean water and that we will be washed clean, that our wrongs and rebellions will be made as not, and that we will enter the true life that we were meant for.
there is no scientific reason for my belief, how could there be? such an idea is not scientific, in fact, such an idea rejects science at the end, and casts science aside. to a scientific mind, such a belief would seem illogical and contradictory on certain levels, but in my opinion that is because one cannot use a tool to make itself. science is not the explanation for all things, but is merely one tool with which we can understand facets of the whole. being a part of the whole, one cannot examine the whole with science. my only reason for believing what i do is that i believe it is true. i cannot say why it is true, or how i know that it is true, because truth is inherent and not subject to the reasoning of man.
C) i don't believe the Universe came from nothing, but that it came from a desire, a whim. however, let us assume that it did come from nothing and that it will return to nothing. wouldn't then our fears and worries be all that does matter, as they are all that exist? one could say that they are equally nothing as the nothingness that they come from, but that doesn't eliminate the reality of our experiencing them. such a statement is simply a twisting of the names of the things, but a rose by any other name is still a rose. it would seem to me that the idea of nothing would make me cling to what i do possess more, not less.
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
Wrongspeedy United States. May 26 2012 06:27. Posts 1521
On May 26 2012 06:19 mmp wrote: I think Buddhism / Will to Nothing / Eastern Asceticism is a rejection of life, an anesthetizing doctrine for the masses, and ultimately not a fulfilling way to live. Its seduction is the superficial relief it provides to vain lifestyle (nihilists believe all lifestyles are vain), but that doesn't mean a purposeful lifestyle is not worth pursuing.
If you enjoy asceticism too much, you'll starve to death.
For a deep analysis, read Will to Power by Nietzsche.
Nietzsche didn't know that much about Buddhism, he knew about one type of Buddhism that he ended up not agreeing with. Buddhism isn't about being ascetic, thats not what the Buddha was (he was for a while until he realized himself that denying the self is also a form of self worship). Maybe you should learn more about it yourself...
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
On May 26 2012 06:19 mmp wrote: I think Buddhism / Will to Nothing / Eastern Asceticism is a rejection of life, an anesthetizing doctrine for the masses, and ultimately not a fulfilling way to live. Its seduction is the superficial relief it provides to vain lifestyle (nihilists believe all lifestyles are vain), but that doesn't mean a purposeful lifestyle is not worth pursuing.
If you enjoy asceticism too much, you'll starve to death.
For a deep analysis, read Will to Power by Nietzsche.
Nietzsche didn't know that much about Buddhism, he knew about one type of Buddhism that he ended up not agreeing with. Buddhism isn't about being ascetic, thats not what the Buddha was (he was for a while until he realized himself that denying the self is also a form of self worship). Maybe you should learn more about it yourself...
If you have particular knowledge, make a positive statement.
On May 26 2012 06:19 mmp wrote: I think Buddhism / Will to Nothing / Eastern Asceticism is a rejection of life, an anesthetizing doctrine for the masses, and ultimately not a fulfilling way to live. Its seduction is the superficial relief it provides to vain lifestyle (nihilists believe all lifestyles are vain), but that doesn't mean a purposeful lifestyle is not worth pursuing.
If you enjoy asceticism too much, you'll starve to death.
For a deep analysis, read Will to Power by Nietzsche.
I would counter act your statement;
ultimately not a fulfilling way to live
by saying that I believe it is the most fulfilling way to live possible, to believe that you are everything and everything is you... It isn't that your life shouldn't be lived, or that you shouldn't fulfill that life with all the joy you can, but simply that there is no black and white answer on how to live.... The period between conception and death is such a miniscule part of life, that in a whole, it is so much more beautiful than each of our separated specs, but because of the ultimate connection that we are all equal and everything around us, is in fact, us, that we can achieve what people try to find there entire lives, acceptance.
What is more fulfilling than acceptance? A promotion at work, or a new car? In the end, happiness is acceptance imo.
On May 26 2012 06:19 mmp wrote: I think Buddhism / Will to Nothing / Eastern Asceticism is a rejection of life, an anesthetizing doctrine for the masses, and ultimately not a fulfilling way to live. Its seduction is the superficial relief it provides to vain lifestyle (nihilists believe all lifestyles are vain), but that doesn't mean a purposeful lifestyle is not worth pursuing.
If you enjoy asceticism too much, you'll starve to death.
For a deep analysis, read Will to Power by Nietzsche.
Nietzsche didn't know that much about Buddhism, he knew about one type of Buddhism that he ended up not agreeing with. Buddhism isn't about being ascetic, thats not what the Buddha was (he was for a while until he realized himself that denying the self is also a form of self worship). Maybe you should learn more about it yourself...
If you have particular knowledge, make a positive statement.
Read Siddhartha? I don't know. I cannot give you wisdom, I can only ask you to be open minded. I am not personally Buddhist but I agree with many things that Buddhism tries to "teach". Personally I have always had the opinion that Religion seperates people and Spirituality brings people together. I can learn from all types of religions and spiritual ideals, but as soon as I call myself "this" or "that" I close myself off from all the others.
Only I can find my own path to wisdom, and the same goes for everyone else. No one can give you the "truth" but yourself. Siddhartha is about someone who figures that out and even though he agrees with everything the Buddha teaches he realizes that by following the Buddha he is not actually following the Buddha. The only way to do that is to find his own path to wisdom.
Mmp and wrongspeedy, please do not begin to type condescending to each other... You will eventually be trapped in an argument trying to prove each other wrong more than actually attempting to join your opinions through educated debates to improve upon your opinions you already hold. Both of you are wrong, but both right. It is perspective.
Last edit: 2012-05-26 06:41:09
FoTG fighting!
Wrongspeedy United States. May 26 2012 06:37. Posts 1521
On May 26 2012 06:19 mmp wrote: I think Buddhism / Will to Nothing / Eastern Asceticism is a rejection of life, an anesthetizing doctrine for the masses, and ultimately not a fulfilling way to live. Its seduction is the superficial relief it provides to vain lifestyle (nihilists believe all lifestyles are vain), but that doesn't mean a purposeful lifestyle is not worth pursuing.
If you enjoy asceticism too much, you'll starve to death.
For a deep analysis, read Will to Power by Nietzsche.
Nietzsche didn't know that much about Buddhism, he knew about one type of Buddhism that he ended up not agreeing with. Buddhism isn't about being ascetic, thats not what the Buddha was (he was for a while until he realized himself that denying the self is also a form of self worship). Maybe you should learn more about it yourself...
If you have particular knowledge, make a positive statement.
Read Siddhartha? I don't know. I cannot give you wisdom, I can only ask you to be open minded. I am not personally Buddhist but I agree with many things that Buddhism tries to "teach". Personally I have always had the opinion that Religion seperates people and Spirituality brings people together. I can learn from all types of religions and spiritual ideals, but as soon as I call myself "this" or "that" I close myself off from all the others.
Only I can find my own path to wisdom, and the same goes for everyone else. No one can give you the "truth" but yourself. Siddhartha is about someone who figures that out and even though he agrees with everything the Buddha teaches he realizes that by following the Buddha he is not actually following the Buddha. The only way to do that is to find his own path to wisdom.
Edit:"By 1882, Nietzsche was taking huge doses of opium, but was still having trouble sleeping.[57] In 1883, while staying in Nice, he was writing out his own prescriptions for the sedative chloral hydrate, signing them 'Dr Nietzsche'.[58]
After severing his philosophical ties with Schopenhauer and his social ties with Wagner, Nietzsche had few remaining friends. Now, with the new style of Zarathustra, his work became even more alienating and the market received it only to the degree required by politeness. Nietzsche recognized this and maintained his solitude, though he often complained about it. His books remained largely unsold. In 1885 he printed only 40 copies of the fourth part of Zarathustra, and distributed only a fraction of these among close friends, including Helene von Druskowitz."
"Siddhartha (Buddha) and a group of five companions led by Kaundinya are then said to have set out to take their austerities even further. They tried to find enlightenment through deprivation of worldly goods, including food, practising self-mortification. After nearly starving himself to death by restricting his food intake to around a leaf or nut per day, he collapsed in a river while bathing and almost drowned. Siddhartha began to reconsider his path. Then, he remembered a moment in childhood in which he had been watching his father start the season's plowing. He attained a concentrated and focused state that was blissful and refreshing, the jhāna."
Self-indulgence and self-mortification were both considered vain to Buddha.
Last edit: 2012-05-26 06:45:24
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
Jockmcplop United Kingdom. May 26 2012 06:41. Posts 1058
Have a look into something called "OBE experience" then if you're lucky and practice enough you might just have one like I did not long ago. First time it feels incredible and unbelievable yet is real and others have been doing it for centuries. Now that it finally happened to me ,even if it's only once , I can surely distinguish it from a lucid dream and never argue it's bull and fantasy with anyone,anymore. And better, try to experience things and project your own constructive opinion instead of relating to others and be in constant doubt, that's if you've opened this thread with a serious reason. I could further tell you my own personal OBE experience ,what happened what I know and what's my opinion on this, after alot of reading/thinking of my own,but this is not an apropiate place for such discussions,it gets very long, just look into OBE and/or pm me if you want to know what I know about it.
LongLiveToTheBrood
Danglars United States. May 26 2012 06:54. Posts 1918
I want to bite, but seeing your willingness for this:
Curious, if that is the case (similar to the matrix) then why is there so much distress? The one thing I remember from the matrix was absolute order inside the matrix, with a few "renegade's" fighting against the machines. Don't you think all of this "freedom" would be smacked down?
You're just in it to critically analyze each other's views on the meaning of life and life after death. I mean, let's not argue which religion is right, which one has the real story ... let's talk whose is more likely. You're barking up the wrong tree if you're looking on this forum to prove 10+ religions illogical and unbelieable. I mean, so sure, I'll pop you a Jesus youtube video, tell you that the universe was created with purpose, and He came to give everyone a second shot at paradise.
Public opinion poll registering responses to the (philosopher?) Alan Watts? You have mine. I believe the thought that everything is nothingness to be absurd. Great images in the movie though, always like those.
MC HuK HerO Creator HWAITING || Go iS! || Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
NeMeSiS3 Canada. May 26 2012 04:52. Posts 2969![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jU0AR.jpg?1)
