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| sorrowptoss Canada. May 26 2012 20:59. Posts 1007 | Profile Blog # |
| The lategame PvZ mothership vs Broodlord+infestor might be completely luck based, but getting there isn't. So I don't see the real problem really. If Blizzard wants they can remove both and replace them with "equivalent" units with different spells in HOTS just to see how things work out, but honestly there isn't much to change imo. |
| | Flash, Taeja, MvP, Jaedong, Stephano fighting! DEMUSLIM is the most awesome person in the world! |
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| emis Estonia. May 26 2012 21:07. Posts 394 | Profile # |
On May 26 2012 20:59 sorrowptoss wrote:
but honestly there isn't much to change imo.
What's wrong with the changes I proposed?
On May 26 2012 20:59 SiroKO wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 20:49 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:48 SiroKO wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:41 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:05 SiroKO wrote:
1st fact: Vortex doesn't beat mass bl/corruptors/infestors.
2nd fact: HOTS is going to be released and vortex is going to disappear, so low league masters who wins game this way will stop claiming that it must work in gsl code S as well.
3rd fact: HOTS is going to bring recall (good way to prevent chain fungals) and a new protoss air unit which I hope will deal well against fleet of corruptors/broodlords.
Ask any grand masters Protoss if they prefer Vortex, you will know how shitty this ability truely is.
As a fact, Idra has a terrible late game army management compared to the likes of Stephano...
Even Calm today showed a better lategame army management than Idra.
Complaining about vortex when you can spread your units well, have mass spinecrawlers and chainfungaledthe archon coming in, is obscene.
You will never hear a top Zerg players do this.
HOTS is going to bring recall? Do you even play this game? And at your 1st fact: "Vortex doesn't beat mass bl/corruptors/infestors". It's the closest P can get, because without Vortex, BL/corruptor/infestor would never die. "Ask any grand masters Protoss if they prefer Vortex, you will know how shitty this ability truely is." What the actual fuck. What's your league? And that IdrA dissing... why? I usually don't go along with dumb people, but this post is just so freaking horrible.
I'm high masters in EU and watch every single Protoss GSL code S/A game. I've come to the empirical and theoretical conclusion that Vortex never works when the Zerg doesn't make a big blunder. If that makes me dumb, then so be it. Recall in hots will be on the nexus, which means, will be more frequent.
So you're saying Protoss actually can't beat Z? How do you deal with BL?
I don't think Terran nor Protoss can realistically transition into an army capable of beating broodlords/infestors/corruptors/spines in a straight battle. But they are other ways to fight a slow and strong army than charging it head on.
There's the problem, in my opinion. |
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| -Kira May 26 2012 21:08. Posts 352 | Profile Blog # |
On May 26 2012 20:55 emis wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 20:54 -Kira wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:52 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:50 dacimvrl wrote:
Not trying to be rude or anything, but my initial thoughts about your post is this - according to Idra?
Just saying, there are plenty of times when things are not luck based, but scout based.
If you scout enough and read into what your opponent is doing, then sure, you have a chance of devising a legitimate counter, and that's what I have seen pretty often.
I was talking about the actual engagements, there's quite some luck in them. I have no problem with being able to scout or devising a counter.
How is it luck when you can control the position and action of every single unit?
read edited post above
So now you're saying it's hard. Oh god forbid the game would be difficult. |
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| Durp Canada. May 26 2012 21:11. Posts 2851 | Profile Blog # |
You can not remove the damage from Brood Lords on their first air > ground attack.
Broodlings are actually stopped by PDD, and only the base attack does any damage. If you take off that initial damage, the raven would completely nullify the brood lord. You can argue on your own if that is worth it or not, hopefully not in a thread here. I don't think it is.
edit; this thread is horrible. Everybody is just throwing out their "ideas" which equate to them whining about what they don't like. Not a single person is considering the ramifications of their suggestions - someone suggested buffing psi-storm. SERIOUSLY? Have you ever seen a PvT lolLast edit: 2012-05-26 21:17:23 |
| | SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!! |
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| emis Estonia. May 26 2012 21:14. Posts 394 | Profile # |
On May 26 2012 21:08 -Kira wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 20:55 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:54 -Kira wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:52 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:50 dacimvrl wrote:
Not trying to be rude or anything, but my initial thoughts about your post is this - according to Idra?
Just saying, there are plenty of times when things are not luck based, but scout based.
If you scout enough and read into what your opponent is doing, then sure, you have a chance of devising a legitimate counter, and that's what I have seen pretty often.
I was talking about the actual engagements, there's quite some luck in them. I have no problem with being able to scout or devising a counter.
How is it luck when you can control the position and action of every single unit?
read edited post above
So now you're saying it's hard. Oh god forbid the game would be difficult.
No I'm saying it's luck based. But not in the traditional sense, though, I mean "lucky" as the opposite of "unlucky". |
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| Catch]22 Sweden. May 26 2012 21:17. Posts 2355 | Profile Blog # |
On May 26 2012 21:07 emis wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 20:59 sorrowptoss wrote:
but honestly there isn't much to change imo.
What's wrong with the changes I proposed?
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 20:59 SiroKO wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:49 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:48 SiroKO wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:41 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:05 SiroKO wrote:
1st fact: Vortex doesn't beat mass bl/corruptors/infestors.
2nd fact: HOTS is going to be released and vortex is going to disappear, so low league masters who wins game this way will stop claiming that it must work in gsl code S as well.
3rd fact: HOTS is going to bring recall (good way to prevent chain fungals) and a new protoss air unit which I hope will deal well against fleet of corruptors/broodlords.
Ask any grand masters Protoss if they prefer Vortex, you will know how shitty this ability truely is.
As a fact, Idra has a terrible late game army management compared to the likes of Stephano...
Even Calm today showed a better lategame army management than Idra.
Complaining about vortex when you can spread your units well, have mass spinecrawlers and chainfungaledthe archon coming in, is obscene.
You will never hear a top Zerg players do this.
HOTS is going to bring recall? Do you even play this game? And at your 1st fact: "Vortex doesn't beat mass bl/corruptors/infestors". It's the closest P can get, because without Vortex, BL/corruptor/infestor would never die. "Ask any grand masters Protoss if they prefer Vortex, you will know how shitty this ability truely is." What the actual fuck. What's your league? And that IdrA dissing... why? I usually don't go along with dumb people, but this post is just so freaking horrible.
I'm high masters in EU and watch every single Protoss GSL code S/A game. I've come to the empirical and theoretical conclusion that Vortex never works when the Zerg doesn't make a big blunder. If that makes me dumb, then so be it. Recall in hots will be on the nexus, which means, will be more frequent.
So you're saying Protoss actually can't beat Z? How do you deal with BL?
I don't think Terran nor Protoss can realistically transition into an army capable of beating broodlords/infestors/corruptors/spines in a straight battle. But they are other ways to fight a slow and strong army than charging it head on.
There's the problem, in my opinion.
Why do you think thats a problem? Its just assymetrical balance. The game can be balanced despite one being stronger at 200/200 late |
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| ntssauce Germany. May 26 2012 21:19. Posts 517 | Profile # |
My idea : would fix TvP (lategame only) :
zealots cost 125/0 and stalkers 100/50 .
if protoss masses zealots in lategame, he looses more mins , and stalkers can get killed easier. in PvZ toss can mass more stalkers for less mins :D!
dunno was just a thought.
/e ofc this is stupid, 2 base blink all ins would be imba and tvp lategame would be more screwed lolLast edit: 2012-05-26 21:20:53 |
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 KadaverBB Germany. May 26 2012 21:21. Posts 9441 | Profile # |
Suggestion threads are always closed on Teamliquid.
"We can not change the game, blizzard can"
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| | Laws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice |
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| -Kira May 26 2012 21:21. Posts 352 | Profile Blog # |
On May 26 2012 21:14 emis wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 21:08 -Kira wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:55 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:54 -Kira wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:52 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 20:50 dacimvrl wrote:
Not trying to be rude or anything, but my initial thoughts about your post is this - according to Idra?
Just saying, there are plenty of times when things are not luck based, but scout based.
If you scout enough and read into what your opponent is doing, then sure, you have a chance of devising a legitimate counter, and that's what I have seen pretty often.
I was talking about the actual engagements, there's quite some luck in them. I have no problem with being able to scout or devising a counter.
How is it luck when you can control the position and action of every single unit?
read edited post above
So now you're saying it's hard. Oh god forbid the game would be difficult.
No I'm saying it's luck based. But not in the traditional sense, though, I mean "lucky" as the opposite of "unlucky".
That's just plain wrong and i already explained why.
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| CrtBalorda Slovenia. May 26 2012 21:21. Posts 535 | Profile # |
| The mothership should gtfo if this game it has no place in a compedetive rts, I agree with IdrA (same as on everything ^^), that the broodlord vs mothership stuff is pretty bad for esports. Last edit: 2012-05-26 21:22:09 |
| | 4th August 2012...Never forget..... |
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| emis Estonia. May 26 2012 21:25. Posts 394 | Profile # |
On May 26 2012 21:21 KadaverBB wrote:
Suggestion threads are always closed on Teamliquid.
"We can not change the game, blizzard can"
It's not a suggestion, it's discussion. Hence the [D].
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| Sapphire.lux Romania. May 26 2012 21:25. Posts 1362 | Profile # |
On May 26 2012 21:11 Durp wrote:
You can not remove the damage from Brood Lords on their first air > ground attack.
Broodlings are actually stopped by PDD, and only the base attack does any damage. If you take off that initial damage, the raven would completely nullify the brood lord. You can argue on your own if that is worth it or not, hopefully not in a thread here. I don't think it is.
They are not.
On May 26 2012 21:11 Durp wrote:edit; this thread is horrible. Everybody is just throwing out their "ideas" which equate to them whining about what they don't like. Not a single person is considering the ramifications of their suggestions - someone suggested buffing psi-storm. SERIOUSLY? Have you ever seen a PvT lol
The irony 
On topic: I think the actual problem is with the P death ball. It forces both T and Z to make their own death balls in late game, creating shit situations. IMO, all P MUs are shit in late game (boring, not imba) Doubt there will be any significant changes to this in the near future.
Last edit: 2012-05-26 21:29:03 |
| | Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!" |
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| emis Estonia. May 26 2012 21:26. Posts 394 | Profile # |
@Catch]22
Again, I'm not complaining about balance, the balance is fine. I just think that this would make the game better.Last edit: 2012-05-26 21:28:20 |
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| Rammstorm Germany. May 26 2012 21:30. Posts 1336 | Profile # |
Colossus> Upgrade: The colossus beams also hit air units.
Problem Fixed!!! |
| | "MC" -> Master of Ceremonies xD |
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| Spekulatius Germany. May 26 2012 21:31. Posts 2163 | Profile # |
There's a lot of reasonable ideas floating around about how issues in the game could possibly be fixed. I think everybody on these forums has at least one thing in mind that could improve sc II.
Unfortunately, we as simple posters, can't do anything about it. If there's a place to discuss modifications, it's the Bnet forums. Where the designers are more likely to read it and possibly integrate the change. A discussion here is basically moot. |
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| Zaphid Czech Republic. May 26 2012 21:47. Posts 1380 | Profile Blog # |
On May 26 2012 21:25 emis wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 21:21 KadaverBB wrote:
Suggestion threads are always closed on Teamliquid.
"We can not change the game, blizzard can"
It's not a suggestion, it's discussion. Hence the [D].
Discussion of suggestion... |
| | I will never ever play Mech against Protoss. - MVP |
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| OpTiKDream United States. May 26 2012 21:53. Posts 758 | Profile # |
Remove broodlords and make them guardians from sc1 instead
Remove mothership |
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| Peleus Australia. May 26 2012 21:57. Posts 410 | Profile # |
I think you're missing the cause of this boring game play style.
Until we remove the incentive for protoss to deathball we're going to see boring a-move style play, be it early, mid or late game.
Currently this is caused by things such as sentries (protect a group of units), collossi (bunch around to protect and deal massive damage) or mothership (group underneath for cloak). I'm not hating on protoss for doing it, but removing broodlings is looking at the wrong race imo. |
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| NexUmbra Scotland. May 26 2012 22:15. Posts 2877 | Profile Blog # |
On May 26 2012 21:47 Zaphid wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 21:25 emis wrote:
On May 26 2012 21:21 KadaverBB wrote:
Suggestion threads are always closed on Teamliquid.
"We can not change the game, blizzard can"
It's not a suggestion, it's discussion. Hence the [D].
Discussion of suggestion...
It's still a discussion |
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 Plexa Administrator May 26 2012 22:16. | Profile Blog # |
| Please post this and all future ideas on the bnet forums. |
| | ~ Spirit will set you free ~ | |
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