Hey! So basically, in this game I took into account what you all said. I built bunkers at my ramp for the 4gate. I took no scv losses, but I still lost the game
I'm still hanging at 100% tvz vs dia and 100% tvt win ratio vs dia and 0% tvp vs plat.
After I held the 4gate, I expanded to 3 base vs 2. Then I killed his natural so it was 3 base vs 1.
Then he A moved collossus across the map with his 70 apm. I didn't play very fast or macro in the late game because I didnt think I needed to. In a TvZ or TvT this could have NEVER happened.
Please help me know how I lost this and how to not lose any more
P.S: I never actually comment on balance especially out of game, but he was an absolutely horrible player. He sent his whole army back while I got stim to kill 5 non stim marines (despite warpgate) and played slower than I did in bronze. Everything about his play was awful. I think after this game I really can't say that protoss isn't imbalanced anymore.
Let me reiterate: He sent HIS WHOLE ARMY back to kill A HANDFUL OF MARINES. He's literally totally moronic.
User was warned for this post
This thread should probably be closed ^_^ Thanks for the help, to anyone who replied with civility.
Last edit: 2012-05-29 17:19:29
Tears soaks each hand the dealer's dealt. But time taught me how to see every second as heaven even when they're perfectly disguised as hell.
Ok before I say anything - you call him a horrible player and he owned you, what does that make you? If you're going to bm, be classy about it not a cookie cutter run-your-mouth troll pls
Anyway how you ended up losing:
When you defended the 4g, he didnt go all in with it, in fact he started his nexus right after he saw your 2 bunkers. By the time your orbital command landed in the nat his nexus was about 20 seconds from completion, and he had also had more probes than you had SCVs. i.e. he was not far behind
2nd, you owned him obviously when you killed his nat - good job - this gives you 100 seconds of 2 base v 1 base as his nexus rebuilds. this is not my opinion - but i literally just watched the replay with the production tab open - with those 100 seconds, you used your 1 base of extra income to make a CC, start making it into a PF, make a starport + add a reactor, start stim, start +2 infantry armor, start +2 infantry weapons, and construct an ebay. thats like........ all up around 1000+ min and about 600 gas, and i dont know exact numbers but i would expect that is around 100 secs worth of 1 base on full saturation, give or take. this is how he caught up to you in supply
if he had attacked any time later your +2/+2 wouldve finished and you wouldve had tons more vikings, but he knew he was on a timer and got you at the best time he could and thats how he did it
EDIT: and i see you just got temp-banned as well. surprise surprise. BTW how you couldve defended this was instead of using all orbital energy as mules, use enough on scans to see if he is going for a big attack like this. once you saw those colossi you wouldve known what to do and likely would win
Last edit: 2012-05-27 01:45:51
framtidenskrig Sweden. May 27 2012 01:50. Posts 91
Ok well, after quick look at the replay, some things you need to think about: After you hold of an big attack, expand Keep your upgrades flowing, constant scv production. You need to be aggressive and trade armies with the toss player in TvP, you basically just sat in your base, during that time he built a big amount of colossi + gateway units. You did only have 1 medivac which wasnt even in the end fight, your production was bad since you didnt have enough scvs, you should be maxed a long time before 19 minute mark if your not attacking...
Last edit: 2012-05-27 01:51:50
75-80°C are absolutly fine! A CPU can handle ~95-100°C. User was banned from Tech Support for being wrong.
Resistentialism Canada. May 27 2012 01:56. Posts 684
Early game: Generally go with one bunker at most before expanding if you scout nothing out of the ordinary. Transfer Scvs after you put your CC down, you had a full page of scvs on your main and it took you a few minutes to fill out your natural.
The big engagement: First of all, stop spending time taunting your opponent if you're seriously having trouble with the matchup. If nothing else, it makes your replay look bad when you offer it up for advice. You had the rightish number of vikings to deal with his overly heavy colossus count, but you had no medivacs. He was nearly all colossus and stalker, so your biggest mistake was kiting with your bio while letting your vikings tank shots. This would have been the right thing to do if he was zealot heavy, but as it was your vikings died alone and he still had lots of colossus left. Needed to kite with everything or stand and fight with everything - probably stand and fight because once again, you had no medivacs. You could have made your vikings a little more effective by parking them on the little plateau, giving them an easy direction to escape to. Always look for little positional areas to abuse with vikings.
Klipsys United States. May 27 2012 02:02. Posts 1245
As other posters have said, this has less to do with his bad play and more to do with your poor choices. Watch all of your VP replays and try to find when protoss is weakest and exploit that. Most low level protss will crumble under pressue
I just can´t believe how BM are you.Why man?And finally you lost and the worst was that you deserved to lose.
Your SCVs production is Gold Level.15 mins and only 45?If you got CC in your main,continue making SCVs and more CC and later just expand and transfer them.Upgrades was ok,so as Production facilities,but you were so blindly confident...He got 6 Colosi and your Vikings were too few,thats why you lose.And 17 mins,you ahead and didnt get maxed? Its Bad macro.It´s difficult to believe your are Diamond.
Your 3rd was WAY LATE.Go check "Bronze to Master" videos from Filter and you will improve a lot,and will see how many things you did bad.
BronzeKnee United States. May 27 2012 02:56. Posts 2763
Basically he makes a thread everytime he losses to a 4 gate and BMs on ladder. He acts every time like TvP is impossible, apparently oblivious to massive success other Terrans are having in TvP leading them to be ahead in the winrate charts (http://imgur.com/a/TC9DB).
Anyway, to the replay. You lost because even though you scouted Double Robo with a Robo bay, you didn't respond correctly, not making a second Starport immediately, nor did you make enough Vikings in general. He has 6 Colossus vs your 10 Vikings when he attacked, and you should have and could have had way more Vikings. You really want a 3-1 ratio of Vikings to Colossus. Furthermore, you should favor Marauders over Marines vs Colossus/Stalker/Sentry. Once the Colossus die, the unupgraded (he only had +1 and no Twilight) Gateway units are food to your 2-1, stim, shield, shells MMM.
Last edit: 2012-05-27 03:14:13
quillian United States. May 27 2012 03:07. Posts 278
Ok, this is the third *edit 5th* time you've posted on this topic, so I'm going to try to give it to you straight. After this you need to find a coach or something.
1. two bunkers on high ground is good against a 4 gate, but you pretty much did it blind. If you are so terrified by protoss all ins, just start 2 raxing before FE. You can outright kill most platinum protoss with a few marauders and marines early game. If you want to play gasless FE, have some balls. You need a bunker at your natural started no later than 4:00. This will finish before any stalker pressure can hit and let you take your expo. So build order is 1 rax, cc at natural, immediately followed by bunker, then 2 rax and gas. Keep an scv scouting and taking towers to see if he is pushing out to build a proxy pylon.
2. You cut scv's severely and delayed your 2nd OC while prepping for his 4 gate. You pretty much lost any economic lead you had here, and he didn't even attack you. If you had expanded to the low ground, gotten 1 bunker up early and added a second only when you saw him push out, and kept building scv's the whole time, you would have had a huge lead. At 8:00 he is ahead in probes and has his natural mining earlier despite having 4 gated!
3. Once your addons finish, be aggressive! At 9:00 right as shells finished, your army value was tripple his. Go take map control and poke then. You did end up pushing with your first 2 medivacs and +1, which is ok, but you didn't have stim and he had colossus by then. Your 2 timings should be 1. with concussive and 3-4 marauders. 2. with medivac and stim. You got lucky in that he was dumb and let you kill his natural. Bad news is you didn't hurt his colossus production or upgrades at all, which is all that matters for late game.
4. you are bm. stfu and play.
5. keep dropping aggressively. need at least 2 medivacs, continually drop, snipe upgrades and tech. you have to weaken his deathball not just poke at useless buildings.
6.you need WAY more production facilities, way sooner. Despite being on 1.5 base to your 3, he had a BIGGER ARMY. this is why he won, not because P is imba. He had 6 colossus. You had a handful of wounded MM with no medivacs.
I didn't play very fast or macro in the late game because I didnt think I needed to.
So you threw away the game cuz you didn't think you needed to play well. End of story.
In summary:
- Fix your build. Either 2 rax or 1 rax fe properly. - Don't cut scvs. - Push when you are strong. Poke with concussive, and again with stim. - Drop more, snipe tech not assimilators. - More rax, sooner. Reactor your second starport and use it. Balance medivac and Viking production properly. - Don't BM and play badly because you think you are ahead.
GLHF
Last edit: 2012-05-27 03:15:03
CakeSauc3 United States. May 27 2012 03:34. Posts 313
^^ What he said. You can watch the Day[9] daily on the 2rax build (2 rax rine+rauder pressure into expand) here:
or, you can check out his daily video on LastShadow's 6rax opener (basically FE into pressure) here:
Both of these builds work marvelously. If you do them right, those scary Protoss all-ins will become a lot less scary.
Other than that, don't forget to make units later on in the game. Constantly pump out units and make extra rax until you figure out the right time to upgrade or to tech up. Even when you're ahead, keep making an army.
gl to you.
Mesha Bosnia-Herzegovina. May 27 2012 03:45. Posts 435
Btw regardless of his play speed, his still beat you fair and square. Making only vikings doesn't work out so well when you need medivacs as well in the army.
"It was a glorious day for fools when modesty became a virtue. There is a difference between cockiness and confidence. Confidence allows for greatness in others."
Psychobabas United Kingdom. May 27 2012 04:59. Posts 1978
1 medivac mmm after 19 minutes and he outmacroed you off 1 base. and your conclusion is protoss op?
you played like shit and talked a ridiculous amount of trash. my advice is similar to those who have already posted, so instead of repeating it i will just say please listen to it.
we aren't out to get you. you need to look at your own play very critically, and your attitude, this isn't a winning combination.
mmmmmm your bm makes his winning so much more enjoyable for him and all toss players.... nothing more satisfying then winning against the offensive gg and such.
Anyways your decision making is rather poor which seems to be why you lost. You shut down his natural which is good but then decided to play extremely passive and just take a third, which btw never did anything for you. you were over saturated on your main and natural and had very very few workers at your third, at the very end you had a little more than half saturation, so basically that was a huuuuuge investment (cc and then PF) that brought you little to no benefit. also you scanned a lot, yet didn't make nearly enough vikings though his colo count was 6? 3 vikings per colo if I recall so you needed at least 18.
Also you need to understand how spending in the early game is waaaayyyyyy different than spending in later stages. in the early game you have very small income so spending 200 mins for 2 bunkers is like spending 1000 mins late game (maybe not that dramatic maybe more idk but I hope you see what I mean) those bunkers did nothing... literally nothing...
Also, yes you did lots of damage to him in the game, but you never killed any of his army save a zealot here and there. Doing all that damage taking out the nexus and what not was great but you lost a lot of your army. When you take out a nat like that be prepared for a huge attack, no smart player is gonna lose there nat and think 'eh it's okay, I'll be fine later since I'm only down two bases.' When you do kill the natural like that be wary of attacks is all I'm saying especially if you lost units while doing it.
On May 27 2012 05:16 GRCJH wrote: This isn't a TvP problem, it's a you-being-bad problem.
QFT, had to work so hard right now not to BM this bloke.
On topic. 1 rax cc >> CC (On the low ground) >> 1 bunker (On the low ground) >> 2 more rax >> then double gas.
Keep your scouting SCV hidden somewhere outside his nat and sending one marine to the tower. When you see his stalker/zealot coming to the tower you run SCV into his main. He has a nexus going down at his nat you are fine with 1 bunker. You scout 4 gates you build 1 or even two more and make sure that at 5:45 you have a MINIMUM of 6-7 scv's already at your bunker[s]. If he runs up the ramp with the first few units (IE two stalker 1 zealot) but doesnt push further for 20 seconds send out 1 marine to scout if he is still at your base. If not he has expanded behind it and you are very far ahead. From there you just wait for +1 weapons, first 2 medivacs and combat/stim to finish and go kill him
Notice you will have 3 rax pumping marines and even when you get ONE tech lab at first to tech to STIM first you still have good production. Your composition will be marine heavy, as it was in the replay you showed. Why on earth would you get conc shells when you have 2 marauders and 4058304593845 marines??
1. why are we helping this scrub? And when I say scrub, I don't mean someone with low skills. Those people can improve. By scrub, I mean someone who's bad and has a negative attitude, is mad, and BMs his opponents to no end when he (thinks he has) won the game.
2. Why did he only get a warning instead of a temp ban?
On May 27 2012 06:05 xtruder wrote: 2 things I'm confused about right now:
1. why are we helping this scrub? And when I say scrub, I don't mean someone with low skills. Those people can improve. By scrub, I mean someone who's bad and has a negative attitude, is mad, and BMs his opponents to no end when he (thinks he has) won the game.
2. Why did he only get a warning instead of a temp ban?
also, thanks OP for making me laugh.
I'm also wondering about #2 considering the balance whining at the end of his post. But I guess this is not the place to discuss that, website feedback is.
Last edit: 2012-05-27 06:10:49
I am the 4%, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17208214 Also known as Heather~ a cancer to teamliquid and probably a terrible, possibly bed wetting, person.
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EneMecH United Kingdom. May 27 2012 01:25. Posts 218
Psychobabas United Kingdom. May 27 2012 04:59. Posts 1978
L2P scrub
