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| Silky United States. May 27 2012 09:39. Posts 219 | Profile # |
We all know that the korean have dominated the scene since back in the Starcraft 1 days. For some reason they absolutely dominate the entire game compared to foreigners which is shown by the difficulty foreigners have playing against them in tournaments (like GSL), the ladder, and in many other ways. People explain that it is because they play countless more games than us foreigners, but what foreigner pros who have been in Korea say that this is true, but it is also how they approach the game. I have wondered what this means and how they really do approach the game. I can not figure it out what-so-ever. Can anyone explain to me how the Koreans:
A. Practice (including hours, exercise, eating habits, ect.)
B. Approach the game
It would be much appreciated! Thank you!Last edit: 2012-05-27 09:56:08 |
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 Br3ezy United States. May 27 2012 09:47. Posts 720 | Profile Blog # |
1. They dont have the "korean all-star factor". If you are an up and coming korean progamer practicing in a b-team practice house and you have the opportunity to play a BO3 against MVP, the first thing they think is "how do i beat this mofo" and not "man this guy is korean AND he won a bunch of gsls...im screwed but this will be good experience for me to play him now (and totally not expecting to win).
Why do you say "us foreigners" if your TL country says Korea (South)?
A. Korean practice houses and foreign practice houses are basically the same thing. You talk about starcraft a lot more then an environment where you are alone or not surrounded against higher level players and so hence they have a "support group".
B. I think they look at the game through a LCD monitor, im not sure on that one so DONT quote meLast edit: 2012-05-27 09:48:06 |
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| ShatterZer0 United States. May 27 2012 09:50. Posts 1833 | Profile # |
First, forum guidelines.
Second, it changes between teams. Khan's style, or more likely January's style, is pretty lax. Based on the players conglomerating their experience constantly so that they don't play as many rote games.
SKT1's is something of a toss up between serious player counter analysis and vast amounts of gaming. More even than the other teams.
Or even ACE, the team that just tries to surprise the other team as much a humanly possible.
But, to be honest, how exactly they practice is much of a trade secret. PLUS, BW players could have SERIOUSLY varied styles at the higher levels, much more varied than we see in SC2 right now.
Just about all of the teams had a minimum exercise requirement. Obviously there were required training hours, but generally it was up to the player exactly HOW much they practiced... just as it is basically everywhere.
I think you should try reposting this with better guideline adherence in the BW forum.
EDIT: LCD? What do you think teams were, rich? They used low end stuff to the END. CRT ftw. Plus, LCD hurts your eyes quicker according to Korean sensibilities. Kinda like how there were no Pro snow maps in BW, the white on the screen just hurt your eyes too quickly.Last edit: 2012-05-27 09:52:42 |
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| Silky United States. May 27 2012 09:56. Posts 219 | Profile # |
| What I'm basically trying to ask is how much do they play and how do they approach the game. |
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| ReachTheSky United States. May 27 2012 10:00. Posts 2341 | Profile # |
Well I'm no pro but i'll share with you some basic tips.
8-10 hours a day is a solid practice regiment. This includes Ladder,customs and reviewing replays. Exercise every morning. Stretch every few hours. Eating habits are VERY IMPORTANT!
I recommend eating all organic foods if possible. No preservatives. No fast food or junk food. Water shall be your beverage. Drink it freely. No soda. No caffeine etc. None of that garbage. Salad should be the base of your main course. Eat chicken. Avoid red meats, eat them sparingly. Almonds, carrots, fruits all make great snacks.
Here is a sample of my eating regiment:
Breakfast- 1-2 eggwhites scrambled on wheat bread(good for your heart),2-3 slices of turkey bacon(yes its processed but its much better for you than regular bacon), Glass of OJ and a piece of fruit. A granny smith apple will wake you up better than one cup of coffee. A couple hours later I eat a snack. Its usually a yogurt. Make sure your yogurt contains probiotics. Avoid eating yogurt or any foods that contain Aspertame(that shit causes cancer). Then lunch. Turkey sammitch! No condoments, except spicy brown mustard(its completely natural). Only 1 slice of cheese. A couple hours later its snack time again. Carrots and almonds. Dinner: Salad is always the main dish. Do not use store bought dressing, its all garbage and very unhealthy. There are a few organic types that are good for you. I recommend getting dressign recipes online. Add some chicken to the salad if you would like(hell i usually do!). There are plenty of healthy side dishes out there. a couple hours later i have another snack. Bananas fruit vegies w/e. Fruits/vegs/nuts should always be your preferred choice for snacks. Never consume food 2 hours before bed. Always drink 2 cups of water within 30 minutes of waking up. Drink 2 cups before sleep and always consume it throughout the day. This is just an example of a very healthy eating lifestyle. You can still eat out, but very very sparingly, maybe once or twice a month. Remember, stay away from food with additives/preservatives. Avoid processed foods, or eat them minimally. I believe turkey bacon is the only processed food i eat now. Fish is great for you.
Approach to the game. Find out why you won. Find out why you lost. Look at your replays. Look at how smooth your macro is. How is your multitasking? How is your money level. Is your mineral/gas income kept low at a good ratio? Map awareness, it changes games. Learn all the builds, learn to recognize them. Sometimes you can hard counter certain openings with something qwuirky and win right off the bat every time. Sometimes the best you can do is have an optimal response. Whatever you do, DO NOT PAY FOR COACHING. Its a rip off and not worth the time. You are better off learning through experience and repetition.
Hope this helped!
You will feel much better after changing your eating habits within 2 weeks. Nourish your body
O also, breath clean air. No smoking  . Alcohol consumption should be a minimum. A glass of wine every night is good for you though.
One last side note: All those unhealthy foods contain so many chemicals that affect your body. Your body becomes addicted to them. You end up going through withdrawl when you stop consuming them. Once you have switched over to a healthy eating lifestyle, your true hunger comes back. You can eat as much as you want, providing its all healthy stuff such as the stuff i've listed. Its sounds crazy but its true. Cheers!Last edit: 2012-05-27 10:04:29 |
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| ThePlayer33 Australia. May 27 2012 10:02. Posts 2377 | Profile # |
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. |
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| Br3ezy United States. May 27 2012 10:09. Posts 720 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe.
So does that make Bill Gates and Warren Buffet not american? Because they are good at what they do? It is not a cultural scenario that does this, it is your stereotypical mind explaining your biased thoughts on how americans are lower-effecient workers than that of asia or the US. How can you even compare the two accurately? Hell, even the currency isn't the same. What makes you a hard worker is what you put in your environment and other things that are already a part of your life, such as if you had a hard working parent and you saw how hard they worked and it rubbed off on you, that is a positive stimulus in your environment.
Foreigners are not lazy on the other hand either. People play more on EU ladder then on KR. Empire.Kas plays so many ladder games a day he always has easily 1k + ladder games. Does this make him lazier and worse then koreans? Does this make him lazier and worse then a fucking diamond korean random player?
Foreigners also don't like to win either? Just because koreans try and beat foreigners means that foreigners don't try and therefore lose to koreans and are inferior to them? K. |
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| huehuehuehue Estonia. May 27 2012 10:11. Posts 451 | Profile Blog # |
You should read iloveoov's and Coach Park's interviews.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295995
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339924
BW B-Teamers just played 12 hours a day, usually just playing standard build to get good mechanics. About food, they just eat the meals that the maid cooks for them in the house, i don't know if teams pay special attention to what kind of food is best for the players. Some players exercise, at offseason the teams usually play soccer etc.
Edit:// Breezy, Kas is an exception, most foreigner pros don't practice a lot, some of them still go to school too.Last edit: 2012-05-27 10:13:10 |
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| Iksf United Kingdom. May 27 2012 10:15. Posts 369 | Profile # |
| No magical trick just koreans work much harder because its so competitive, as with any job. If you want to get better don't bother with changing your diet or something stupid just play more, try always find something to improve on from game to game. |
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| Natespank Canada. May 27 2012 10:18. Posts 448 | Profile # |
| What about psychologically? Besides describing the actions the pros take, what mental outlook do they have day to day? |
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| LOcDowN Vietnam. May 27 2012 10:18. Posts 938 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 09:39 Silky wrote:
We all know that the korean have dominated the scene since back in the Starcraft 1 days. For some reason they absolutely dominate the entire game compared to foreigners which is shown by the difficulty foreigners have playing against them in tournaments (like GSL), the ladder, and in many other ways. People explain that it is because they play countless more games than us foreigners, but what foreigner pros who have been in Korea say that this is true, but it is also how they approach the game. I have wondered what this means and how they really do approach the game. I can not figure it out what-so-ever. Can anyone explain to me how the Koreans:
A. Practice (including hours, exercise, eating habits, ect.)
B. Approach the game
It would be much appreciated! Thank you!
You are correct in your statement of "how they approach the game".
You may be partially correct when you say they practice more than foreigners, and that they put in more physical time than foreigners. But eventually it is "how they approach the game" that is best.
Inside Korea we have team houses, we have a coaching staff and specific coach for a specific race (Terran coach, Zerg coach, and Protoss coach). In the team house, you share knowledge with each other and learn the correct mentality to win in tournament play.
The level of play is superior in Korea on a general level and extremely strong in team house environment so you will get the best practice quality in comparison to outside of Korea.
The strategy is up-to-date and all meta-game shift happens in Korea first before the entire world learn and copy. Korea takes Starcraft with a professional approach (an actual job career) that focus on engineering build orders (reverse engineering to get specific timings down) and rinse-and-repeat superior mechanics to dominate.
The foreign scene can do the same but we would have to match the professional approach to their quality standard. I don't think anyone is willing to do this since no one really view Starcraft as a true sport and not enough money generation will make it worth it to engineer a system that matches or is superior to Korea. Until it is a profitable system (Starcraft) you won't see anyone jumping on and engineer build orders professionally out of Korea like you see in Korea. It is just not worth the time, people would rather just copy what Korea is doing for now and let them lead the way in innovations of build orders as new maps are release. |
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| Silky United States. May 27 2012 10:38. Posts 219 | Profile # |
| Can anyone explain how they specifically "refine" their builds? |
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| Assirra Belgium. May 27 2012 10:42. Posts 3202 | Profile # |
| Doing it hundreds times over and over. Last edit: 2012-05-27 10:42:25 |
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| Klipsys United States. May 27 2012 10:58. Posts 1203 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2012 10:38 Silky wrote:
Can anyone explain how they specifically "refine" their builds?
getting movement and placement down to an exact science |
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| nyaru267 United States. May 27 2012 12:14. Posts 117 | Profile # |
A.) Dedication, They create a schedule that works for them and stick with it for example 8am-12 wake up play and have lunch 12pm- 2 practice break for an hour 3-5 more practice then and done for the day(Just a made up example just create one that works for you).
B.) Play the gameLast edit: 2012-05-27 12:15:20 |
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| RavenLoud Canada. May 27 2012 12:43. Posts 1069 | Profile # |
One stereotypical thing I hear a lot is that Koreans tend to view the game in terms of how they can mechanically improve, while foreigners like to look at the overall structure of the game.
E.g. A terran loses a TvZ, the Korean terran will say to himself to improve his marinesplit and macro better, while a foreigner would look at how he can improve his build to have specific units at specific timings and refine his expo timings.
I'm not sure how true this really is, all broad generalizations like this tend to be shaky.
One thing's for sure, Koreans work much harder and live in a very concentrated area where they all have close contact with their highest level peers. Their well established team/coaching infrastructure combined with this concentrated effort is the real reason why they excel at this game.
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| GinDo May 27 2012 12:48. Posts 2927 | Profile Blog # |
Korea simply takes the game more seriously.
The number one complaint that foreigner tend to have about Korean Team house is the strict rigid practice schedule.+ Show Spoiler +Or at least that's what Idra said.
Not to mention that Ladder in Korea is much stronger as a result of a more dedicated SC2 community. Not that it is bigger the NA or EU, just more dedicated to the game. |
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| Holytornados United States. May 27 2012 12:55. Posts 623 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe.
This post makes me facepalm.
You're attaching a huge stigma to an entire group of people based on video game results, when in reality there are as many hard working American/foreigners as there are Koreans. Look at it from a perspective outside of video games before you try to attribute it to culture. |
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| evilfatsh1t Korea (South). May 27 2012 13:02. Posts 855 | Profile # |
On May 27 2012 12:43 RavenLoud wrote:
One stereotypical thing I hear a lot is that Koreans tend to view the game in terms of how they can mechanically improve, while foreigners like to look at the overall structure of the game.
E.g. A terran loses a TvZ, the Korean terran will say to himself to improve his marinesplit and macro better, while a foreigner would look at how he can improve his build to have specific units at specific timings and refine his expo timings.
I'm not sure how true this really is, all broad generalizations like this tend to be shaky.
One thing's for sure, Koreans work much harder and live in a very concentrated area where they all have close contact with their highest level peers. Their well established team/coaching infrastructure combined with this concentrated effort is the real reason why they excel at this game.
if you were talking about a korean a-teamer compared to a foreigner then that might be true, since the korean pro would have the timings known like the back of his hand by then
but an average korean gamer and a foreigner would probs think the same way about wanting to work on mechanics and timings together
but what ive noticed with a lot of my friends and myself is that foreigners arent as competitive as koreans. when i lived in australia most of my non korean friends had that approach where if they lose they just accept it and move on. now, i live in korea (and myself being korean), i notice that if my friends and i lose we get pissed and will ask for rematches until they win, whether it takes another 100 games to achieve it doesnt matter to them
i think its the competitive mentality that differentiates koreans vs foreigners |
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| ymir233 United States. May 27 2012 13:07. Posts 1246 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2012 10:09 Br3ezy wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe.
So does that make Bill Gates and Warren Buffet not american? Because they are good at what they do? It is not a cultural scenario that does this, it is your stereotypical mind explaining your biased thoughts on how americans are lower-effecient workers than that of asia or the US. How can you even compare the two accurately? Hell, even the currency isn't the same. What makes you a hard worker is what you put in your environment and other things that are already a part of your life, such as if you had a hard working parent and you saw how hard they worked and it rubbed off on you, that is a positive stimulus in your environment. Foreigners are not lazy on the other hand either. People play more on EU ladder then on KR. Empire.Kas plays so many ladder games a day he always has easily 1k + ladder games. Does this make him lazier and worse then koreans? Does this make him lazier and worse then a fucking diamond korean random player? Foreigners also don't like to win either? Just because koreans try and beat foreigners means that foreigners don't try and therefore lose to koreans and are inferior to them? K.
Gates and Buffett aren't exactly your avg Americans, just like MVP and Nestea aren't your avg Koreans. Koreans can be just as lazy as foreigners, but the ones that do start working are also surrounded by a slightly more work-/practice-focused environment. Probably comes from a cultural/religious influence, really - the whole Confucian/Buddhist "working is most of it" mindset that's been ingrained for so long versus the more vaguely-set Abrahamic religions that have mainly settled in the Western Hemisphere. Again, a more complicated handwave to explain the "hardworking Koreans" stereotype, but one that does have some weight in terms of generalizations. |
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