| marvellosity United Kingdom. June 12 2012 01:23. Posts 11826 | Profile # |
| Well, aren't I off to a flyer :x |
| | I disagree with myself - kushm4sta |
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| chaoser United States. June 12 2012 01:30. Posts 5538 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 01:20 rastaban wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 01:05 Toadesstern wrote:
On June 12 2012 00:38 marvellosity wrote:
On June 12 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote:
On June 12 2012 00:22 MrZentor wrote:
With that in mind let me categorically state I will shoot anyone claiming miller after our starting phase
Is anybody else bothered by this? There's no reason you should "veto" a decision because you can shoot. Regardless of the topic, it stunts discussion, which is really scummy.
the point is that every mafia can "just" claim miller AFTER someone got a red check on them (obviously not takling about d1) and therefore we can't allow people to just claim miller if in danger because that could be a legit way for mafia to get out of the way and make them look townish.
Eh... even if we didn't agree for millers to claim day 1, then doing so hardly makes someone look townish. That's what you look at their play for, to see if it makes sense or not.
exactly. what I'm saying with my post before that. We need to play normal instead of focussing on millers because frankly with framers and gfs running around I don't see an easy way to figure them out (easy = not normal analysis, but instead something that works right off the bat). So what I meant and is that a miller claim afterwards should not be a reason to consider someone a townie. If you make someone claim he obviously got pressure and therefore you considered lynching / shooting him prior to the claim. A miller claim should not be treated as alignment indicating either way, which results in shooting them if you thought he's mafia prior to the claim.
Exactly, Millers can claim now (what I prefer as it gives us information now), or they can not claim (as Toad prefers as the confusion may stifle real discussion). Later in the game someone we are suspicious of is checked by a cop and shows red, he then claims miller. He still gets shot as the time for claiming has past and it gives mafia an out.
Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
On June 12 2012 01:03 chaoser wrote:
@gonzaw I'm surprised you're asking millers to claim and then shoot day 1 when it's just as good to have millers claim day 1 and then you yourself volunteer to shoot day 1.
Since you yourself did not volunteer immediately to shoot on day 1, I was wondering if you'd like to start us off by shooting on day 1.
In this game, to find 3 out of the 4 mafia, I feel like it's pretty easy. We just force the person we think is the most suspicious to shoot the person THEY think is most suspicious. If they can shoot, they are not one of the three regular mafia. The only anti-town that gets out of this is the GF and the SK but they should be easy to narrow down when we combine this method with regular analysis.
If they can't shoot, then they are either mafia or blue.
In terms of blue roles, I actually don't think they matter that much this game and I'd totally be ok with any blue role that gets suspected and put on the spot to shoot to just claim. RB is nerfed this game to only be able to roleblock the same person on every other night so that means mafia can't just nilly willy claim blue and then when they don't die to mafia gunfire for a few days, get off scott free.
So basically it goes discussion--->decide who is "most suspicious"--->force them to shoot who THEY think is most suspicious--->if they can't shoot, they will be forced to claim--->we then decide if the claim is valid or not--->shoot if we don't think the claim is valid.
Nice plan, the 3 scum get 3 free town deaths with this.
Scum (except GF) can't shoot so no they don't. However I don't know about the plan of having them shoot whoever they think is most suspicious. If they are town and are in that spot they have most likely been playing sub-optimally (the reason they are in this spot to begin with) so having them make the call seems like it could wind up with us losing more obvious townies. Maybe they shoot the second most suspicious person. Its like a duel where the 2 most suspicious people have to shoot it out and if one is mafia 3/4ths of the time he doesn't have a gun to shoot back with.
I was actually thinking of this too but I ended up picking the "they get to shoot who they think is most suspicious" cause I didn't want it to be all town controlled and that person has no control whatsoever. From playing in Liar's Game, it was very easy to see that people played extremely sub-optimally when people felt left out or not in control. Also I felt like if the person was allowed to shoot the person they felt was most suspicious, if they hit mafia, then they get a retrieval and if they hit a townie, they would be more likely to re-evaluate their actions and thoughts up to that point and thus return as a better "player" the following cycle. |
| | Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul. |
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| chaoser United States. June 12 2012 01:32. Posts 5538 | Profile Blog # | |
| | Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul. |
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| VisceraEyes United States. June 12 2012 01:38. Posts 9768 | Profile Blog # |
The scum GF is going to have a lot of power. He can shoot teammates for towncred if they get a big enough lead.
Anyway, this setup speculation is fun and everything, but I'm mostly interested to hear from people who haven't posted yet. |
| | Come on and give it to me. Come on and die. ****TL MAFIA LI - NEVER FORGET**** |
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| marvellosity United Kingdom. June 12 2012 01:39. Posts 11826 | Profile # |
| If the dude is playing badly and he's townie and under suspicion, he's probably going to misfire... is it really worth a likely townie death in the hope they may magically start playing better next cycle? |
| | I disagree with myself - kushm4sta |
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| MrZentor United States. June 12 2012 01:49. Posts 1541 | Profile # |
| Yeah, having the two people whom we think are most suspicious shoot each other seems much better than allowing a bad townie choose who lives and who dies. |
| | Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination. |
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| chaoser United States. June 12 2012 01:54. Posts 5538 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
The scum GF is going to have a lot of power. He can shoot teammates for towncred if they get a big enough lead.
Anyway, this setup speculation is fun and everything, but I'm mostly interested to hear from people who haven't posted yet.
That's why we take everything with a grain of salt? Or do you guys just not re-evaluate ever as game goes on lol? There's no such thing as absolute towncred; If someone is killing it and destroying mafia left and right and yet still making it to endgame, you can be sure, when stacked up with the other remaining survivors, that he's mafia. |
| | Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul. |
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| FreelanceSatan June 12 2012 02:17. Posts 36 | Profile Blog # |
ok I just woke up got my role and went over thread. Apparently you guys are trying to find a way to take advantage of millers and that sounds like a good topic to start discussion on but I dont exactly see how pressuring millers to claim is gonna confirm them or anything with a GF that can be miller and shoot in game it reduces authenticity of any miller claim.
I think you guys need to slow down with trying to put together odd ball plans that rely on so much unknown variables and just focus on the one thing town does best. scum hunting.
( also why did chaos threaten to shoot a claimed miller when like 90% of thread is indicating that they approve of the plan on some level??) that just doesnt feel right.
I would FOS chaos for that.
Anyway im not a miller however..
I will volunteer to take the first shot if you guys have a plan other than "shoot your biggest scum read so your confirmed townie" cause honestly how accurate are scum reads on day 1. (not very) and the last thing we need is townies offing townies during the day and scum offing townies during the night. |
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| FreelanceSatan June 12 2012 02:19. Posts 36 | Profile Blog # |
| just to be clear in case yall didnt catch it im claiming vanilla townie. |
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| FreelanceSatan June 12 2012 02:20. Posts 36 | Profile Blog # |
| I feel dirty like ken pachi now. |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. June 12 2012 02:22. Posts 4169 | Profile Blog # |
| I agree with the "reduce oddball plans" sentiment FS although I'm a bit confused by your FoS. Care to explain why it doesn't feel right? |
| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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| FreelanceSatan June 12 2012 02:23. Posts 36 | Profile Blog # |
| well it feels like chaoser was threatened by the prospect of town possibly working together to find a usefull way to handle millers. |
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| chaoser United States. June 12 2012 02:26. Posts 5538 | Profile Blog # |
( also why did chaos threaten to shoot a claimed miller when like 90% of thread is indicating that they approve of the plan on some level??) that just doesnt feel right.
When did I say this? |
| | Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul. |
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| FreelanceSatan June 12 2012 02:27. Posts 36 | Profile Blog # |
wait did I get you confused with someone else?
Lemme go back |
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| FreelanceSatan June 12 2012 02:29. Posts 36 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 00:22 MrZentor wrote:
Show nested quote +With that in mind let me categorically state I will shoot anyone claiming miller after our starting phase
Is anybody else bothered by this? There's no reason you should "veto" a decision because you can shoot. Regardless of the topic, it stunts discussion, which is really scummy.
this was what i was reading. sorry i had thought it was chaoser for some reason.. i think it was gonzaw actually. lemme go re read his wall of text |
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| MrZentor United States. June 12 2012 02:30. Posts 1541 | Profile # |
He was trying to copy my reason for being suspicious of Rastaban, but he confused Rastaban with chaoser.
FAIL |
| | Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination. |
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| FreelanceSatan June 12 2012 02:34. Posts 36 | Profile Blog # |
I just woke up bro. And im not trying to "copy your reason" im agreeing with it. highlighting it and supporting it.
You dont like when people support your reads?? |
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| MrZentor United States. June 12 2012 02:35. Posts 1541 | Profile # |
There's nothing wrong with copying as long as you do it accurately and add on your own ideas.
I have an irrational fear of being misquoted. >.< |
| | Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination. |
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| rastaban United States. June 12 2012 02:40. Posts 2225 | Profile Blog # |
You guys do understand I was referring to shooting people claiming miller in later stages of the game future and not ones claiming now (which i was for). I just point this out since FreelanceSatan's quote below references wanting to shoot the claiming millers.
also why did chaos Rastaban threaten to shoot a claimed miller when like 90% of thread is indicating that they approve of the plan on some level??
What i was saying was |
| | Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!" |
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| rastaban United States. June 12 2012 02:42. Posts 2225 | Profile Blog # |
wow how did my post get so mangled...
What i was saying was basically Millers can claim or not claim now but once the game progresses their is no use in claiming miller as at that point they should be shot. |
| | Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!" |
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