On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
It's not really a big deal. Half the reason I considered not claiming at all was just because I didn't think it was worth considering whether or not I was a Miller. I am sure if I continue being alive they will try to make me suspciious because of that. Or killing me, whatever. There is a chance that a medic could be on me because I claimed and they would be wasting their first hit.
There is a number of things they have to take into account. Ultimately, I'm not really worried and whether I die or not its not that big of a deal.
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RebirthOfLeGenD USA. June 12 2012 06:06. Posts 5342
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? Let's start the wifom machine lol.
And here comes that suspicion thing I was talking about. It's the only downside I perceived of claiming regardless of timing. Idiots will always over-analyze shit for no reason. However that wasn't something I could articulate without just saying people are dumb and we can't work around them being suspicious of a miller claim regardless of how illogical it is for any non-town person to do it.
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On June 12 2012 06:01 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Can we agree right now to not go rogue and shoot without discussion? There needs to be some deliberation behind peoples shots. If everyone just goes rambo then we'll never actually get a chance to scumhunt.
this..
if we dont holda public vote for each shot and require EVERYONE to vote we will lose a ton of information. I hope we can all conclude that shooting without votes first is incredibly anti town
RebirthOfLeGenD USA. June 12 2012 06:08. Posts 5342
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? Let's start the wifom machine lol.
I'm going to shoot toad if I survive. I remember several other retarded things said as well. Any issue with that?
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wherebugsgo United States. June 12 2012 06:10. Posts 7932
On June 12 2012 02:17 FreelanceSatan wrote: ok I just woke up got my role and went over thread. Apparently you guys are trying to find a way to take advantage of millers and that sounds like a good topic to start discussion on but I dont exactly see how pressuring millers to claim is gonna confirm them or anything with a GF that can be miller and shoot in game it reduces authenticity of any miller claim.
I think you guys need to slow down with trying to put together odd ball plans that rely on so much unknown variables and just focus on the one thing town does best. scum hunting.
( also why did chaos threaten to shoot a claimed miller when like 90% of thread is indicating that they approve of the plan on some level??) that just doesnt feel right.
I would FOS chaos for that.
Anyway im not a miller however..
I will volunteer to take the first shot if you guys have a plan other than "shoot your biggest scum read so your confirmed townie" cause honestly how accurate are scum reads on day 1. (not very) and the last thing we need is townies offing townies during the day and scum offing townies during the night.
I'm Bart Simpson, who the hell are you?
marvellosity United Kingdom. June 12 2012 06:12. Posts 11372
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
It's not really a big deal. Half the reason I considered not claiming at all was just because I didn't think it was worth considering whether or not I was a Miller. I am sure if I continue being alive they will try to make me suspciious because of that. Or killing me, whatever. There is a chance that a medic could be on me because I claimed and they would be wasting their first hit.
There is a number of things they have to take into account. Ultimately, I'm not really worried and whether I die or not its not that big of a deal.
If it isn't that big of a deal why did you make a really big post justifying it to yourself?
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? Let's start the wifom machine lol.
I'm going to shoot toad if I survive. I remember several other retarded things said as well. Any issue with that?
It would probably be best to hold off on this discussion till after night dont give scum any info to create wifom and chaos with their shots tonight unless absolutely necessary. ( altho it looks like the damage is done at any rate)
Toadesstern Germany. June 12 2012 06:54. Posts 6103
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? Let's start the wifom machine lol.
I'm going to shoot toad if I survive. I remember several other retarded things said as well. Any issue with that?
It would probably be best to hold off on this discussion till after night dont give scum any info to create wifom and chaos with their shots tonight unless absolutely necessary. ( altho it looks like the damage is done at any rate)
just look at LV. Wifom is good for town not good for mafia
Toadesstern Germany. June 12 2012 07:32. Posts 6103
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? Let's start the wifom machine lol.
I'm going to shoot toad if I survive. I remember several other retarded things said as well. Any issue with that?
This makes no sense from your point of view Either you really think your move was a good one: In that case you don't care about what I posted becaue you either get shot or don't when apparently all you want to do is shoot d1, while I am protecting you. So why don't you like me protecting me like that if you're really a miller? Or you think your move was retarded, in which case you should probably not have claimed.
Either way you should be happy about that post if you're really a townie. Why are you not?
2)http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=39#773 That post I did was obviously bullshit. Yeah I don't have a strong townread on wiggles but the fact that he ended up being mayor probably makes him town or at least dead soon enough anyways. However I am no medic and getting people to doubt him this night is a nice thing because it makes mafia less likely to shoot him. Kind of a beggars way to medic someone. And well I have a mason partner so I have all the proof I need to tell people that was bullshit on purpose the next day and just yell "shut the fuck up, that was on purpose" :3
It's originally from my mason QT but I posted it d2 in the thread so it should be okay because everyone has that information.
Toadesstern Germany. June 12 2012 07:33. Posts 6103
The biggest problem with setups where so many people have guns is the town's lack of organization. It eventually ends up in a trollfest, where townies shoot each other, while the scum team sits in the background without attracting much attention. If you are town, don't forget to submit your vote for a 48 hour day cycle.
If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two. If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot
I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return.
I support a miller claim on day one. If they fail to claim on day one, then they get shot if they claim miller at any point after d1. Millers shouldn't claim night one as it assists the mafia team with blue sniping.
It seems very unlikey that the mafia team has two godfather type roles. Based on the way the shot cooldown works, they would be able to day kill four consecutive days. Combined with the six night kills that come with their deaths and lynches, thats a 2:10 trade, assuming there isn't a SK or town night vig role. I like chaoser's plan of forcing certain players to shoot, but I wouldn't leave it up to them to decide their own target. By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will.
Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
VisceraEyes United States. June 12 2012 07:57. Posts 9691
On June 12 2012 07:56 kitaman27 wrote: The biggest problem with setups where so many people have guns is the town's lack of organization. It eventually ends up in a trollfest, where townies shoot each other, while the scum team sits in the background without attracting much attention. If you are town, don't forget to submit your vote for a 48 hour day cycle.
If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two. If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot
I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return.
I support a miller claim on day one. If they fail to claim on day one, then they get shot if they claim miller at any point after d1. Millers shouldn't claim night one as it assists the mafia team with blue sniping.
It seems very unlikey that the mafia team has two godfather type roles. Based on the way the shot cooldown works, they would be able to day kill four consecutive days. Combined with the six night kills that come with their deaths and lynches, thats a 2:10 trade, assuming there isn't a SK or town night vig role. I like chaoser's plan of forcing certain players to shoot, but I wouldn't leave it up to them to decide their own target. By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will.
So much right about this post, I agree completely. Combating disorganized townies is top priority and our best chance at victory. Once day rolls around we can start deciding who to shoot and by whom.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
Toadesstern Germany. June 12 2012 08:10. Posts 6103
On June 12 2012 07:56 kitaman27 wrote: The biggest problem with setups where so many people have guns is the town's lack of organization. It eventually ends up in a trollfest, where townies shoot each other, while the scum team sits in the background without attracting much attention. If you are town, don't forget to submit your vote for a 48 hour day cycle.
If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two. If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot
I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return.
I support a miller claim on day one. If they fail to claim on day one, then they get shot if they claim miller at any point after d1. Millers shouldn't claim night one as it assists the mafia team with blue sniping.
It seems very unlikey that the mafia team has two godfather type roles. Based on the way the shot cooldown works, they would be able to day kill four consecutive days. Combined with the six night kills that come with their deaths and lynches, thats a 2:10 trade, assuming there isn't a SK or town night vig role. I like chaoser's plan of forcing certain players to shoot, but I wouldn't leave it up to them to decide their own target. By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will.
yeah that's what we kind of came up with. What do we do with people who already broke a rule? I already mentioned that a claim prior to n0-d1 deadline is helping mafia if they want to bluesnipe and therefore pretty much everyone agreed to make the miller claimes either on the n0->d1 deadline to prevent that or just claim d1 because there's no benefit in claiming n0 from a townie point of view but some from a mafia point of view. Even a late D1 claim is np, It's not like DTs will claim d1 anyways due to sanities. Surely we can't just shoot RoL now that he just claimed some hours ago but I agree that we should hold those standards in general to ensure noones going full retard on the thread in rambo-fashion (sup Wiggles )
Toadesstern Germany. June 12 2012 08:18. Posts 6103
On June 12 2012 07:55 marvellosity wrote: Toad dearest, let's not be talking about ongoing games
I'm not talking about ongoing games. I merly stated that he should be happy no matter if I really meant that or not and should not answer that if he's a scared townie who wants to survive n0. That principle works no matter of what game and no matter of my alignment because again, no matter if I really mean it or not, the result is still the same.
kitaman27 United States. June 12 2012 08:30. Posts 4544
I'm also shooting the first player whose filter reaches 20 pages.
*cough cough*
Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
VisceraEyes United States. June 12 2012 08:31. Posts 9691
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote: Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...
yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?
about 0. I actually thought there's no way that's really a claim because that would be stupid. Maybe it's a trick to survive d0? Let's start the wifom machine lol.
I'm going to shoot toad if I survive. I remember several other retarded things said as well. Any issue with that?
It would probably be best to hold off on this discussion till after night dont give scum any info to create wifom and chaos with their shots tonight unless absolutely necessary. ( altho it looks like the damage is done at any rate)
just look at LV. Wifom is good for town not good for mafia
On June 12 2012 07:56 kitaman27 wrote: The biggest problem with setups where so many people have guns is the town's lack of organization. It eventually ends up in a trollfest, where townies shoot each other, while the scum team sits in the background without attracting much attention. If you are town, don't forget to submit your vote for a 48 hour day cycle.
If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two. If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot
I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return.
I support a miller claim on day one. If they fail to claim on day one, then they get shot if they claim miller at any point after d1. Millers shouldn't claim night one as it assists the mafia team with blue sniping.
It seems very unlikey that the mafia team has two godfather type roles. Based on the way the shot cooldown works, they would be able to day kill four consecutive days. Combined with the six night kills that come with their deaths and lynches, thats a 2:10 trade, assuming there isn't a SK or town night vig role. I like chaoser's plan of forcing certain players to shoot, but I wouldn't leave it up to them to decide their own target. By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will.
I think this is what we've already agreed on initially.
This is another thing I've thought of:
Medics, try to protect our claimed VTs that already shot as much as you can instead of blues
Reasons:
There are a bunch of VTs (valid assumption), and most likely 1 GF like kita said. If someone shoots, it's very likely that player is VT and not GF (i.e you won't protect a mafia)
Because of that previous thought, it's very likely that we can "confirm" said player as town (if he doesn't act like a scummy idiot), therefore having him in the game longer is better for us
I already mentioned that if all our VTs die, we have like a 99% chance of losing this game because we can't "lynch" at all. Having at least 1 VT alive throughout the game ensures that we'll always have a shot to use, meaning we have a chance to win
Who would you protect otherwise? Someone random? There's a chance he's either blue or mafia
If he's blue...then if he's Medic (like yourself) or Cop he's mostly useless since it's likely he doesn't know his sanity, and there may be framers and shit around (in the case of the Cop) or he could even kill someone (in the case of the medic)
If he's mafia you wasted your ability (unless you are Insane Doc, or the one that can RB his target) or could have saved a vig shot on him (if we have a vig)
If you have to choose someone to protect, then I'd say choose watchers and trackers, since the checks from those are confirmed (i.e they know their "sanity"). Cops and other Medics need lots of days to figure out their alignment, so in early game they are not useful.
So in N1 I'd suggest the medic protects the VT/Miller that used his shot. Kind of like if the one that shot was a claimed blue that confirmed his action of sorts (and needs protection at night).
Although....figure out your sanity first. Tonight protect someone and see the result of your action (e.g the guy you protected claimed RBed, etc). Anyways, damn, I really want to start some analysis, but this whole night is just a bunch of discussion about plans
@Marv: What do you think of RoL's claim? Do you think it's legit or not?
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