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| Sein United States. May 30 2012 04:47. Posts 1653 | Profile Blog # |
On May 30 2012 03:10 NiNETAiL wrote:Thanks guys makes me feel better <3 sorry its just i got really upset over it , cause its like getting to jail when you didn't do anything  See ya guys! thanks for cheering me up!
Hm....still offended?
I bet you're still really upset though, because you basically got exposed by bringing attention to yourself.
Well, you're gonna follow this up with the excuse that every hacker and cheater love to use, so I'm just going to say it before you do.
"It was my stupid brother. I'm so sorry and I won't let him near my computer again". |
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| JackDT May 30 2012 04:50. Posts 705 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 04:44 Mendelfist wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:04 iaretehnoob wrote:
On May 29 2012 23:52 thebig1 wrote:
Running a replay on 8x doesn't have anything to do with things... In order to run the game at 8x you either need to run the game logic at 480fps (60*8) and then drop frames... Sure there are tricks you can use to help with this, but it's still not going to be great. So yeah, if people can only manage 70fps running the game normally, they are only going to get like 9 at 8x speed.
You don't need to dispose a unit every time it leaves the fog of war. You would try to keep as much in memory as you could... Y could just ou do something like get the server to stop sending info and send a hide bit, then the units can be completely kept in memory and not updated on the map. That gives you the same result of it being compeltely stateless. Both ways you could get total count of units, and their last position. If you were really worried about memory in team games you could send death messages globally to tell clients when to dispose units when they died. However, on modern computers that shouldn't really be an issue. Most of the memory is taken up by things like assets anyways.
I am in a rush to type this post (like always, life too busy), but programming in games (and other projects tbh) is all about taking shortcuts. You very rarely do it the "correct" way, such as trying to make your stateless game. The correct way is too slow. You get something that works nearly as well, but is way faster and use that instead.
Content: OpenConflict: Preventing Real Time Map Hacks in Online Games So preventing maphacks is possible even in P2P games, without moving the simulation to a 3rd party.
My understanding of that is that it requires parts of the gamestate to be sent over the net, and the suggested protocol solves the problem of what to send without revealing something the other client shouldn't know. I don't think it's possible to implement with any reasonable effort though. The first reason is the network bottleneck. Imagine a scan going off. Suddenly all units within that area should be sent within one game tick to the other client. The second reason is that it would be extremely hard to keep the game states in sync. This is already very hard as it is, even when feeding all clients exactly the same input. Now the game engines would get information on a "need to know basis", ie no client runs a full simulation of the complete game. I think it would be a mess to try to implement.
Dota 2 does it. And Diablo 3 to a lesser extent. Everything happens server side. There's no map in memory to hack. |
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| Eifer United States. May 30 2012 04:53. Posts 123 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 03:55 ZweiGaming wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:51 las91 wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:41 Caliber wrote:
On May 30 2012 02:56 NiNETAiL wrote:
as i've said i feel really offended by this , beacuse i can prove that im not a maphacker , and he didn't even post a single replay of me playing with a "maphack" .... so i kind of feel bad.
care to explain this? http://drop.sc/188346
It is very subtle but after watching the replay it's interesting to see such incredible "starsense" as responding to a 2 stargate phoenix play within several seconds of Rocker placing his stargates as well as going to the "correct" watchtower instead of the one closer to your base with your phoenixes. Albeit not blatantly obvious it is suspicious.
Not blatant? has to be a joke... who goes fast expo in pvp and doesn't even scout the opponent base in a 15 min mark game (GM players that is)? As previously said, the 10:15 timing is obvious hacks as well.
Just going to say that some of my builds are no-scout pvp and I might never see their base if I expand and defend an allin, so it's a possibility that (gm level) players might not see their opponent's base occasionally. They make reads off what units they see and don't see to make the correct economically superior response for a win.
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| NiNETAiL Poland. May 30 2012 04:53. Posts 6 | Profile # | |
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| KeeN Canada. May 30 2012 04:59. Posts 82 | Profile # |
| can we talk to twitch.tv to possibly ban maphackers from streaming? lol |
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| ROOTT1 Canada. May 30 2012 05:02. Posts 5630 | Profile Blog # |
ty for plugging ur shit but u cant get away from this
On May 30 2012 04:02 Furlqt wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:51 ZweiGaming wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:41 Caliber wrote:
On May 30 2012 02:56 NiNETAiL wrote:
as i've said i feel really offended by this , beacuse i can prove that im not a maphacker , and he didn't even post a single replay of me playing with a "maphack" .... so i kind of feel bad.
care to explain this? http://drop.sc/188346
After looking at this replay, I am 100% convinced that he hacks. I'd be worried if I were you ninetail lol. Apart from 0 scouting, 100% copying the oponent strat, the 10:15 timing where you send your phoenix on his threw fog of war is pretty obvious. Thanks for this replay caliber
There's also a blink on the 15 hp stalker without any corresponding selection at 15:56.
that has nothing to do with gameplay, its a hack |
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| Furlqt United States. May 30 2012 05:03. Posts 22 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 04:50 JackDT wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:44 Mendelfist wrote:
On May 30 2012 04:04 iaretehnoob wrote:
On May 29 2012 23:52 thebig1 wrote:
Running a replay on 8x doesn't have anything to do with things... In order to run the game at 8x you either need to run the game logic at 480fps (60*8) and then drop frames... Sure there are tricks you can use to help with this, but it's still not going to be great. So yeah, if people can only manage 70fps running the game normally, they are only going to get like 9 at 8x speed.
You don't need to dispose a unit every time it leaves the fog of war. You would try to keep as much in memory as you could... Y could just ou do something like get the server to stop sending info and send a hide bit, then the units can be completely kept in memory and not updated on the map. That gives you the same result of it being compeltely stateless. Both ways you could get total count of units, and their last position. If you were really worried about memory in team games you could send death messages globally to tell clients when to dispose units when they died. However, on modern computers that shouldn't really be an issue. Most of the memory is taken up by things like assets anyways.
I am in a rush to type this post (like always, life too busy), but programming in games (and other projects tbh) is all about taking shortcuts. You very rarely do it the "correct" way, such as trying to make your stateless game. The correct way is too slow. You get something that works nearly as well, but is way faster and use that instead.
Content: OpenConflict: Preventing Real Time Map Hacks in Online Games So preventing maphacks is possible even in P2P games, without moving the simulation to a 3rd party.
My understanding of that is that it requires parts of the gamestate to be sent over the net, and the suggested protocol solves the problem of what to send without revealing something the other client shouldn't know. I don't think it's possible to implement with any reasonable effort though. The first reason is the network bottleneck. Imagine a scan going off. Suddenly all units within that area should be sent within one game tick to the other client. The second reason is that it would be extremely hard to keep the game states in sync. This is already very hard as it is, even when feeding all clients exactly the same input. Now the game engines would get information on a "need to know basis", ie no client runs a full simulation of the complete game. I think it would be a mess to try to implement.
Dota 2 does it. And Diablo 3 to a lesser extent. Everything happens server side. There's no map in memory to hack.
Dota 2 and Diablo 3 don't have to support a fully extensible Modding/Mapmaking API. |
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| Mendelfist Sweden. May 30 2012 05:03. Posts 286 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 04:50 JackDT wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:44 Mendelfist wrote:My understanding of that is that it requires parts of the gamestate to be sent over the net, and the suggested protocol solves the problem of what to send without revealing something the other client shouldn't know. I don't think it's possible to implement with any reasonable effort though. The first reason is the network bottleneck. Imagine a scan going off. Suddenly all units within that area should be sent within one game tick to the other client. The second reason is that it would be extremely hard to keep the game states in sync. This is already very hard as it is, even when feeding all clients exactly the same input. Now the game engines would get information on a "need to know basis", ie no client runs a full simulation of the complete game. I think it would be a mess to try to implement.
Dota 2 does it. And Diablo 3 to a lesser extent. Everything happens server side. There's no map in memory to hack.
Yes, but if we are to believe the statistics in the game, there are 6000 games on the EU servers at the moment. You would have to run 6000 game engines at the same time. The network traffic would also increase enormously, since you couldn't just send the user inputs between the clients. |
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| stevarius United States. May 30 2012 05:04. Posts 1368 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 05:02 mTwTT1 wrote:ty for plugging ur shit but u cant get away from this
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:02 Furlqt wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:51 ZweiGaming wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:41 Caliber wrote:
On May 30 2012 02:56 NiNETAiL wrote:
as i've said i feel really offended by this , beacuse i can prove that im not a maphacker , and he didn't even post a single replay of me playing with a "maphack" .... so i kind of feel bad.
care to explain this? http://drop.sc/188346
After looking at this replay, I am 100% convinced that he hacks. I'd be worried if I were you ninetail lol. Apart from 0 scouting, 100% copying the oponent strat, the 10:15 timing where you send your phoenix on his threw fog of war is pretty obvious. Thanks for this replay caliber
There's also a blink on the 15 hp stalker without any corresponding selection at 15:56.
that has nothing to do with gameplay, its a hack
The hack is part of the most popular maphack out there. He was just adding to the evidence. |
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| Get.Midikem Sweden. May 30 2012 05:04. Posts 312 | Profile # |
| Cant somebody make a list of all the hackers somewhere? |
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| StreetWise United States. May 30 2012 05:05. Posts 515 | Profile # |
| Seems to me map hacks on ladder are becoming more and more prevalent. I realize people do care more about hackers in GM, which is why this thread wasn't closed, however, I think its a concern about the quality of the ladder overall. I wish they would publicly announce their bans and how many accounts they closed like they did with WC3. It just feels like they do nothing about hacking. I know they do, but I just wish they would be a little more proactive. |
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| ZeromuS Canada. May 30 2012 05:06. Posts 8291 | Profile Blog # |
On May 30 2012 05:02 mTwTT1 wrote:ty for plugging ur shit but u cant get away from this
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:02 Furlqt wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:51 ZweiGaming wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:41 Caliber wrote:
On May 30 2012 02:56 NiNETAiL wrote:
as i've said i feel really offended by this , beacuse i can prove that im not a maphacker , and he didn't even post a single replay of me playing with a "maphack" .... so i kind of feel bad.
care to explain this? http://drop.sc/188346
After looking at this replay, I am 100% convinced that he hacks. I'd be worried if I were you ninetail lol. Apart from 0 scouting, 100% copying the oponent strat, the 10:15 timing where you send your phoenix on his threw fog of war is pretty obvious. Thanks for this replay caliber
There's also a blink on the 15 hp stalker without any corresponding selection at 15:56.
that has nothing to do with gameplay, its a hack
That ninetails guy sure knows how to find proxy pylons pretty well and he sure knows how to ignore ones that go up in the usual places that people generally scout in base. |
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| stevarius United States. May 30 2012 05:07. Posts 1368 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 05:05 StreetWise wrote:
It just feels like they do nothing about hacking. I know they do, but I just wish they would be a little more proactive.
Given I have seen reported maphackers play since the 1.4.3 patch consistently, it isn't a bad bet to make that they're doing practically nothing. They're either publicly showing inaction because of something big planned or they just aren't doing shit. |
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| ZweiGaming Canada. May 30 2012 05:09. Posts 323 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 05:04 Get.Midikem wrote:
Cant somebody make a list of all the hackers somewhere?
I am currently taking care of this over here, though only top ranked players or else the list wouldn't have an end (only doing this with replay support).
Just added a replay of GameOfDrone on the main page from someone who sent me it, thanks for your contribution guys
On May 30 2012 04:53 Eifersuchtig wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:55 ZweiGaming wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:51 las91 wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:41 Caliber wrote:
On May 30 2012 02:56 NiNETAiL wrote:
as i've said i feel really offended by this , beacuse i can prove that im not a maphacker , and he didn't even post a single replay of me playing with a "maphack" .... so i kind of feel bad.
care to explain this? http://drop.sc/188346
It is very subtle but after watching the replay it's interesting to see such incredible "starsense" as responding to a 2 stargate phoenix play within several seconds of Rocker placing his stargates as well as going to the "correct" watchtower instead of the one closer to your base with your phoenixes. Albeit not blatantly obvious it is suspicious.
Not blatant? has to be a joke... who goes fast expo in pvp and doesn't even scout the opponent base in a 15 min mark game (GM players that is)? As previously said, the 10:15 timing is obvious hacks as well.
Just going to say that some of my builds are no-scout pvp and I might never see their base if I expand and defend an allin, so it's a possibility that (gm level) players might not see their opponent's base occasionally. They make reads off what units they see and don't see to make the correct economically superior response for a win.
Yes, but if you watched replay that's not whats going on there
On May 30 2012 04:59 KeeN wrote:
can we talk to twitch.tv to possibly ban maphackers from streaming? lol
More like let's talk to twitch to save the VODS before the hacker removes them prior to blizzard watching.Last edit: 2012-05-30 05:12:28 |
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| DrPhilOfdOOm Sweden. May 30 2012 05:10. Posts 351 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 05:02 mTwTT1 wrote:ty for plugging ur shit but u cant get away from this
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:02 Furlqt wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:51 ZweiGaming wrote:
On May 30 2012 03:41 Caliber wrote:
On May 30 2012 02:56 NiNETAiL wrote:
as i've said i feel really offended by this , beacuse i can prove that im not a maphacker , and he didn't even post a single replay of me playing with a "maphack" .... so i kind of feel bad.
care to explain this? http://drop.sc/188346
After looking at this replay, I am 100% convinced that he hacks. I'd be worried if I were you ninetail lol. Apart from 0 scouting, 100% copying the oponent strat, the 10:15 timing where you send your phoenix on his threw fog of war is pretty obvious. Thanks for this replay caliber
There's also a blink on the 15 hp stalker without any corresponding selection at 15:56.
that has nothing to do with gameplay, its a hack
u know all about it
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| Plansix United States. May 30 2012 05:12. Posts 5391 | Profile Blog # |
On May 30 2012 05:07 stevarius wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 05:05 StreetWise wrote:
It just feels like they do nothing about hacking. I know they do, but I just wish they would be a little more proactive.
Given I have seen reported maphackers play since the 1.4.3 patch consistently, it isn't a bad bet to make that they're doing practically nothing. They're either publicly showing inaction because of something big planned or they just aren't doing shit.
Or Diablo 3 was released and destroyed their servers. From what I have heard, it is all hands on deck to keep that game moving. |
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| iAmJeffReY United States. May 30 2012 05:15. Posts 3388 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 01:49 NiNETAiL wrote:I have no affilation with Impa and i am not a "smurf" of him. Delete my name from this list beacuse i feel offended right now. And please don't post any names when you aren't 100% sure and you don't have any kind of proof (i.e Replay) its bulls^%t how someone can destroy your name with just 1 post. Also if you search my nickname here check for people who have opinions and facts. like CCalms , or just search my name , there are 2 people who are 100% sure i don't hack , so don't say this stupid stuff. Thanks  "ninetail sounded familiar so I checked and I did play him in a PvP. He 4gated me and it failed so he tried to expand and got a robo and sentries and I swooped in with sentries and 4gates and killed him. He certainly was not maphacking in that game (robo lol). Just saying, if your accusatory trigger finger is a bit too happy you better watch it, calling people out on maphacking with such certainty on teamliquid if you dont know for sure is very very very bm. Of course, maybe he just didn't have his maphack on that game ^^ Just playing devil's advocate during the witch hunt I guess! ^^" I Agree with CCalms , its BM to call out people maphack without any proof.
Had to requote after watching that replay.
...hahaha...... Love the army movement, and blink control. so fucking fast it doesn't even register!!! With that blazing 109 apm, that's insane!Last edit: 2012-05-30 05:16:35 |
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| InDaHouse Sweden. May 30 2012 05:21. Posts 854 | Profile # |
| Can someone give some insight how maphacking even can occur with bnet 2.0? I remember before sc2 beta they said maphacking would be almost impossible. |
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| Uni1987 Netherlands. May 30 2012 05:22. Posts 387 | Profile # |
| Hacking.. It's so pathetic. How does one enjoy winning but not really. >.< |
| | ............. | |
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| Danglars United States. May 30 2012 05:25. Posts 1923 | Profile Blog # |
Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 16:48 Danglars wrote:
So are we taking one guy, musing about the possibility for 3 and more trickling into GM as spots become available, or are we tracking accounts in GM that generate replays suspicious of maphacking? I hate to play devil's advocate here, but what we got is a livestreaming maphacker GM (hilarious to be sure) and maybe one other familiar name that is known to do fishy things. I don't see linked the other 6 (or 5) unknown maphackers that the us.battle.net poster alleges are in GM (read the OP link).
So umm ... are these GM maphackers growing in the sense that I just bought a block of cheese ... so refrigerator cheese blocks are growing (to 3!!!!)? Or are these GM maphackers swelling in rank from 8 to 9 to 10 ... ...
I do reailze that GM isn't as much as skill entry as is it being at the right place, right time in a very high masters position. I just see two accounts spoken of, one replay, and a lot of conjecture. There has already been a thread for investigating maphacker replays, perhaps now is the time to focus in on what average population of the top-200 players maphackers make up?
I did not name the other because I do not have replays saved vs them and I do not like to accuse without solid proof for everyone. I surely will start saving every hacker replay from now on, as I intend to clean GM out of hackers.
Perhaps it would even serve your purposes better for soliciting replays from others that ladder a lot and regularly play GM players. I'm not the only one that saw
It seems like this phenomena is getting out of control, I can list a minimum of 7 GM on NA that are using maphack blatantly.
And read on to see 1 replay and 2 players talked about and went ... what? Expecting more to this story in the coming weeks other than the stated word that these players exist from a guy I don't recognize on the eSports scene. If they are the blatant maphacker variety, unconcerned with hiding their gameplay assistance, it shouldn't be anything beyond a matter of contacting community GM members and soliciting their replays.
And yeah I get why you don't mention names of your 7 indefensible GM maphackers. I'm simply pointing out that that claim (of reporting them to blizzard and knowing who they are beyond a shadow of a doubt) and saying, "They're growing!!" doesn't resonate so much without proof of their numbers or a timeline of finding new ones everyday. EX. These 7 are clearly maphacking, check these replays dated here. And here's 2 more I've just seen surface last week, they're growing, guys. |
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