[Interview] KTF Coach Jung Soo Yeong - Page 17

On June 06 2012 23:04 Sawamura wrote:

Well they are pretty smart since they can spend their hard earn money on other things beside sc2 . So in my book they are pretty wise.

But I thought Koreans had inherently better taste in games? How can they go from something so perfect like brood war to a dumbed down moba?

wassbix Canada. June 06 2012 23:07. Posts 496

On June 06 2012 23:02 Calis5 wrote:
So what you two are saying is, that no matter what game, it only becomes successful if its free? What does that say about Korea?

It means Korea adopted the Free to Play model earlier than the west (they came up with it after all), and have done a well enough job that now that many great games are free of charge. Not sure what you're trying to imply.

jpak United States. June 06 2012 23:10. Posts 3648

On June 06 2012 23:02 Calis5 wrote:
So what you two are saying is, that no matter what game, it only becomes successful if its free? What does that say about Korea?

Barring Blizzard games (because of BW), YES!!!

What does it say about Korea? If the game is not free-to-play, it better be REALLY DAMN good. It doesn't mean that Koreans are not willing to pay. Just look at Diablo 3, for instance, and see how much hype that got prior to opening day and how many people still play it in PC Bangs.

But overall, that mentality of paying $60 for a new game every year like the Call of Duty franchise doesn't really fly in Korea.

CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL! I am not jpak of jpak and friends, so stop asking me please.

Sawamura Malaysia. June 06 2012 23:10. Posts 7233

On June 06 2012 23:05 Calis5 wrote:

But I thought Koreans had inherently better taste in games? How can they go from something so perfect like brood war to a dumbed down moba?

Nope broodwar has been losing popularity already even before sc2 and LoL pop up into the market to MMO games .Which is kind of reasonable since MMO are much more sociable although the grinding and craziness that ensue when you get too addicted to the games have force some kids to spend lot of $$$ on in game items.

Last edit: 2012-06-06 23:13:26

BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..

Calis5 June 06 2012 23:10. Posts 26

On June 06 2012 23:07 wassbix wrote:

Brood war only got popular because it was free, not becuase it was full of depth and life changing like everyone on here would like to believe.

And now LoL is the next new thing that is free to play and will soon supplant brood war.

jpak United States. June 06 2012 23:13. Posts 3648

On June 06 2012 23:10 Calis5 wrote:

but BW wasn't originally free. You had to purchase a CD with a CD-Key in order to play on the Bnet Ladder back then.

CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL! I am not jpak of jpak and friends, so stop asking me please.

Calis5 June 06 2012 23:16. Posts 26

On June 06 2012 23:13 jpak wrote:

but BW wasn't originally free. You had to purchase a CD with a CD-Key in order to play on the Bnet Ladder back then.

Yes, 'originally' but do you know how easy it was to get around that? Same with WC3 in china, why do you think blizzard created this restrictive bnet 2.0 crap in the first place?

jpak United States. June 06 2012 23:18. Posts 3648

On June 06 2012 23:16 Calis5 wrote:

Yes, 'originally' but do you know how easy it was to get around that? Same with WC3 in china, why do you think blizzard created this restrictive bnet 2.0 crap in the first place?

4.5 million copies were sold in Korea anyway, with 9.5 million copies sold worldwide.

And yes, I agree that Bnet 0.2 is crap.

CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL! I am not jpak of jpak and friends, so stop asking me please.

FATJESUSONABIKE June 07 2012 00:13. Posts 184

On June 06 2012 20:13 Elroi wrote:

this is how we feel about sc2.

... and this is how you should feel about sc2, both cases are similar in a lot of ways.
who would watch sports if sports were as easy to learn as a moba and an -almost tool-assisted- rts like sc2?

I enjoy watching sc2 more than i enjoy watching LoL though.

iky43210 United States. June 07 2012 02:16. Posts 1952

f2p is going to be the future of global gaming. Either adapt to the global economy or be prepare to be phased out

asians aren't willing to pay for video games, or software in general.

smekz Portugal. June 07 2012 03:05. Posts 477

On June 07 2012 02:16 iky43210 wrote:
f2p is going to be the future of global gaming. Either adapt to the global economy or be prepare to be phased out

asians aren't willing to pay for video games, or software in general.

so asians dont play wow or diablo3? seems weird..

makes me kinda sad bw fanatics saying lol is better to watch than sc2. i started watching bw because whenever i saw pros playing i was like "how can he do that, how is that even possible?!" and i would just drool watching them play. for me watching things like jangbi storms or stork's shuttle micro is like watching lebron/kobe slam dunkin' or ronaldo/messi dribbling through a bunch of players. i think i will never have that feeling again, at least not as epic but in sc2 you can have some nice things like timings and micro showdowns. i like to watch lol but it's not as exciting as watching sc2. that said if i lived in korea i'd watch both i don't see any reason to have to choose just one..

RavenLoud Canada. June 07 2012 03:28. Posts 1069

I'm pretty surprised at the reaction to John's post...then again maybe not that much.

This community has definitively seen better days than recently.

Hundisilm Estonia. June 07 2012 06:39. Posts 85

On June 06 2012 03:28 mustaju wrote:

On June 06 2012 03:12 Hundisilm wrote:

On June 05 2012 15:34 mustaju wrote:

On June 05 2012 15:22 Hundisilm wrote:

On June 05 2012 14:03 mustaju wrote:

On June 05 2012 11:50 JunkkaGom wrote:
A true gamer should never despise a game or its fans.

Such act will not put 'your' game above other games.

It is equally as bad as racism, sexism or any other discrimination.

I call bullshit. Despising games for destroying ideas and ideals is a valid source of emotion. It's not supposed to put a game above others. It's supposed to give opinions about worrying trends, and through criticism improve them, which is what a lot of the "BW-elitist" crowd are trying to do.

Your "True gamer" monicker makes your argument even worse, and I despise you as a human being for comparing differences in opinion about games to ideas that have caused ethnicide.

I might have been too harsh, in my wording, but you REALLY pissed me off.

I agree it's probably not very accurate to say it's equally as bad as them 'ism's. There are a some similarities, but you can't really put them quite on the same level of stupid (they are on entirely different levels of stupid). I'm kind of curious though, how can a game destroy ideas and ideals? Wouldn't it be the people who play it or other entities rather than an inanimate piece of code (maybe you can elaborate a bit on what you mean by a game destroying ideas).

On another off-topic thing - I can't really say I find it particularly interesting or surprising that similar reactions pop up to League of Legends from Starcraft 2 community than from Broodwar community to Starcraft 2. It seems like a rather normal reaction in our current state of society (I would've rather been surprised if it didn't happen to be honest). I'm curious though - do people think the reaction from Starcraft 2 to League of Legends is correct or the reaction from Broodwar to Starcraft 2 is wrong?

A game is more than a piece of code, it's an interactive experience for the gamer. Games can either promote or destroy ideas or ideals, like any art or entertainment medium, and the same arguments that can be used for games can be used for the others.
Isn't a movie a roll of film? Isn't a book a few sheets of paper? Don't these things promote ideas and lead to the destruction of others?

Ok, I think I get what you mean - I don't think I quite agree with it though. They can probably promote an idea, but not really destroy another one. You can probably despise something for promoting a bad idea, but even then a game like Starcraft 2 or Broodwar are a lot less about promoting an idea than the medium of a book or a movie.

If games change the way people think about things, they are responsible for the promotion of the idea and the destruction of the idea they replaced. As Falling eloquently put, the idea that a video game could survive the Next Big Title was destroyed with the events that followed SC2. I do not agree at all that games stimulate people less or change their behaviour less than movies or books, and I think that the degree that games influence peoples way of thinking will even increase as time advances.
The degree that SC2 or BW did this specifically can and will be argued about, but I think that one can justifiedly despise SC2 for some of it's design choices.

I think you can really destroy an idea only by limiting it's exposure. I also didn't mean to say that games as a medium for spreading ideas are necessarily worse than books or movies (games are more difficult to execute, but have a lot higher potential in that regard), but rather that the purpose of BW and SC2 is not really on the "idea" side (it's a platform for enterntainment not a statement of some sort). Books and movies are more often used to present ideas, but that's mostly because it's generally easier to do it with them and they are somewhat more limited as mediums. It seems to me that despising a game is somewhat similar to despising hammers because someone bludgeoned someone else to death with one.
I also think despise is a rather strong word - "dislike" is pretty much how far I'd let a person go while still being rational. But it's an adjective so it might mean something different to you.

rasers Sweden. June 07 2012 06:52. Posts 611

On June 07 2012 03:28 RavenLoud wrote:
I'm pretty surprised at the reaction to John's post...then again maybe not that much.

This community has definitively seen better days than recently.

yeah because it was a post from John we must all agree with him and he is right. sure sure.

Elroi Sweden. June 07 2012 07:14. Posts 3884

On June 07 2012 06:52 rasers wrote:

yeah because it was a post from John we must all agree with him and he is right. sure sure.

... I don't even know who he is.

On June 07 2012 03:28 RavenLoud wrote:
I'm pretty surprised at the reaction to John's post...then again maybe not that much.

This community has definitively seen better days than recently.

How do you know? You signed up here in 2011.

Last edit: 2012-06-07 07:15:25

"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong

AsymptoticClimax United Kingdom. June 07 2012 07:36. Posts 246

I'm genuinely entertained watching the inevitable end of BW and its fans boycotting sc2 while I sit back and enjoy GSL, Proleague and a bit of OSL when it becomes pure godly sc2.

User was temp banned for this post.

i wish my motherboard would find a fatherboard so i could have anotherboard

rasers Sweden. June 07 2012 07:40. Posts 611

On June 07 2012 07:36 AsymptoticClimax wrote:
I'm genuinely entertained watching the inevitable end of BW and its fans boycotting sc2 while I sit back and enjoy GSL, Proleague and a bit of OSL when it becomes pure godly sc2.

And you talk about people being pathetic in the OGN thread

) the irony.

TommyP United States. June 07 2012 07:43. Posts 5064

I feel as if there is quite a bit of truth in this statement.

AsymptoticClimax United Kingdom. June 07 2012 07:47. Posts 246

On June 07 2012 07:40 rasers wrote:

And you talk about people being pathetic in the OGN thread

) the irony.

Well yeah, but for being subjective without any conclusive cases. anyhow I need to stop reading through these BW vs SC2 threads and arguments because they're driving me mad! T_T

i wish my motherboard would find a fatherboard so i could have anotherboard

Lightwip United States. June 07 2012 08:19. Posts 5497