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| SmexMyPocky Canada. May 29 2012 01:32. Posts 31 | Profile # |
Hi there ! I'm a high masters Zerg on North America by the name of iMoEpitaph. I've always struggled with the Zerg mirror match up, getting my third too early/late. Dealing with Mutas incorrectly, everything that makes you want to 6pool when you see a Zerg queued up against you.
This build was created by ME. Inspired by nydus plays from coL.CatZ against terran ( saw it last summer and thought it was cute)
Also, i'm sick today, and it's also my first post. So please don't flame at me if it looks disgusting. I'll edit it after if you have any complaints on how the format is.
About me
+ Show Spoiler + I've been playing around with this build for about a month, it's still really rough but a lot of my zerg buddies that i've been playing this against have been asking me about my BO, so instead of delaying any longer I've decided to post my style before someone else steals it. 
How ZvZs are these days
+ Show Spoiler +
-Zerg baneling ling all in's you
-Zerg ling all ins you
-7pool
-Mass roach
-Muta play
Basically, almost every Zerg vs Zerg is the same. Mass roach + Infestor/Hydra force that you multi-prong attack with, etc etc. I feel that this isn't that fun, and if you weren't safe enough/not greedy enough you lose then and there. A 15 minute game could be decided in the first five minutes of the game by just who droned harder, did more damage, etc. The style that I'll be talking is introducing something that I barely ever see in ZvZs, rather, any game at all, the Nydus Worm.
Idea behind my build.
+ Show Spoiler +A quick overview of the build is
-Fast expo
-Mass roach on two base
-Hit at 1/1 with speed
-Utilizing Nydus
-Nydus all game, explained more later.
The Opener
+ Show Spoiler +The opener for this build will be 16h, 15p. I like this opener because I used to be a huge scrub (gold league) until I saw Spanishiwa's opener and used it to date. (masters) like I already stated, this will be the Spanishiwa opener, 4 queens, 4 gases at 40 supply, lair at first 100 gas, but NO SPEED. IF you don't know the Spanishiwa build, I'm sure you can find it on the forums.
Tips on the Opener
+ Show Spoiler +
-I do not drone scout, but you can if you feel you need to know if the pool is before 12.
-If I don't see a hatch first, I match their ling count while using my 18th drone to make a spine crawler on the edge of the creep in my main.
-4 queens asap, don't rally drones to natural if they're still on 1 base
-If they take an expo, stop ling production
-Never make more lings than they have, you won't be getting speed, they probably will.
Third Timing
+ Show Spoiler +
Many Zergs take a third relatively early, you can punish this with either speedlings, or move out on two bases with roaches. However, if they have a decent force to hold , then you cannot punish them for the early third leaving your third delayed and behind theirs. I take my third after killing their third, or main. (explained later)
Preparing the Execution
+ Show Spoiler +
This is the 'how it works' part of the build. You will begin roach production after each of your bases have the optimal drone count. 16 for minerals, 6 for gas per base = 22 drones. That is two lines of drones + 4 (two will be in gas so you can not see them when double clicking / boxing the drones working at the base). Once you have your 1/1 half way done, start a Nydus worm , deny all scouting of it which is quite simple with the 4 queens you have from the opener. Put the nydus in a place which would be impossible for them to scout with an overseer. When complete, rally all your roaches into the nydus, and place it either at their third, have an overlord in a close unspotted position, or main if they have no vision(rare). You may think that this is 100% luck that the opponent is bad, but even pros don't have perfect overlord positioning, and if they do, place it a bit further . :D just not too far from the third.
You will also want to start your third once your nydus finishes, and an infestation pit.
Now the fun begins.
+ Show Spoiler + Your roaches are going to be unloading in either his main, or third. If you chose the third click here + Show Spoiler +
His roaches should be in between his main and third, a bit infront of his second base, quickly snipe the third with all your roaches and retreat to the nydus. If you don't manage to snipe it that's ok. You're down 100/100. Once you begin the nydus at the third, you need to queue a nydus to make in his main. If he didn't have vision than ezpz. If he did, then he won't have forces there to quickly kill the nydus, and more times than not, he will be preoccupied dealing with your whole army at his third. You will want to then unload all your roaches into his main and snipe his lair/tech/drones.
if you chose the main click here + Show Spoiler +
Snipe his lair/tech you want another nydus starting close to his third once the one in his main completes so you can pull out when his forces come and kill the third/drones, then retreat to the nydus where you can either attack the main again once he goes for the third, or just pull home and get your third up and running.
Dealing with a counter attack
+ Show Spoiler +If he decided to just counter you with everything he has, then you'll need to pull most of your roaches back, leave around 7-10 to snipe his main/ third. You're going to want at least 4 spine crawlers and if this is before your infestation pit/infestors pop you'll want a few more. If you manage to get infestors up (this being a later counter done by him after you've already sniped either his main or third, then you'll be 100% fine. 4 infestors 4 spines and a few roaches will destroy his entire counter attack, which is the easiest way to win the game.
Later game use of the nydus.
+ Show Spoiler + After you've either successfully killed his third and main. Which is really easy against any opponent. I wouldn't say i'm the best zerg, by far. But I've honestly not lost a ZvZ against Any Zerg in a long time since i've started working on this build. (Other than the occasional 10p or 7p that I failed to defend). Anyways, even if you didn't manage to do any damage, just double expand and connect your 4th base using a nydus worm, that way you can defend every single one of your bases with a few infestors in the nydus worm, instead of leaving a few infestors PER base, making the supply with your army larger.
The counter
+ Show Spoiler +Muta play hard counter this. Not to the point where you lose, but to the point where your third is a lot later than you want it, and you have a useless nydus. To come back after this is to drop a hydralisk den as well as a infestation pit and move out at 200/200 with hydra roach infestor on 2/2 upgrades. His 20ish mutas will be make him lose the game, also, get overlord speed to save your overlords if you scout a spire with your overseer. The 100/100 will save you 800ish minerals if you actually spread your overlords.
Notable Replays.
+ Show Spoiler +I will edit this to include a lot of my games later.
NMxHendralsk Rank 16 Grandmaster Zerg
Replay -http://drop.sc/187560 Last edit: 2012-05-29 01:54:49 |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. May 29 2012 01:33. Posts 31 | Profile # |
| If you have any questions or comments feel free to ask ! |
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| ArcticRaven France. May 29 2012 01:37. Posts 1168 | Profile # |
| I didn't see the rest, but.... no speed gasless expo ? If the opponent sees no gas up to 44 and heavy turtle from you can't he just expand everywhere on the map ? |
| | [EatThePath] I call assassins as my faction. Please tell me we can all agree that in the version of history, Steppes of War will be Jerusalem. |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. May 29 2012 01:42. Posts 31 | Profile # |
If he decided to expand everywhere on the map, he'd be so spread out you could just send a few roaches to attack his expos. But if he did have a decent amount of defence a nydus filled with all your roaches could kill it. Also, no zerg would get 4+ expos before 8minutes in a zvz. ^^ If he did, you could easily snipe them with roach speed, or the nydus play explained in the guide because his roach count will be VERY low if he decided to take that many expansions hehe.
I also get my gases at 40, so 32 drones when I drop all four gases.Last edit: 2012-05-29 01:53:41 |
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| ThomasjServo May 29 2012 02:08. Posts 2294 | Profile Blog # |
| Ice Fisher is an interesting choice for an opening, Think there would be any leeway for an 18 hatch of 14 pool 14 gas or vice versa to stay a bit safer |
| | I mean, it's a fact, sure as day follows night, sure as eggs is eggs, sure as every odd-numbered Star Trek movie is shit. @callmetomservo | |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. May 29 2012 02:12. Posts 31 | Profile # |
| I believe that yes, it is quite possible to do a pool first, but I find it useless because I opt. to skip speed and defend purely with queens and spines. If you're scared of a bling/ling / early pool you can just scout earlier with a drone and drop a few more spines get a few extra queens, sim city earlier. |
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| ThomasjServo May 29 2012 02:24. Posts 2294 | Profile Blog # |
On May 29 2012 02:12 SmexMyPocky wrote:
I believe that yes, it is quite possible to do a pool first, but I find it useless because I opt. to skip speed and defend purely with queens and spines. If you're scared of a bling/ling / early pool you can just scout earlier with a drone and drop a few more spines get a few extra queens, sim city earlier.
Agreed its much more viable with the patch to forgo drone scouts, 2+ year of metagame in my head are saying its not viable on the smaller maps. |
| | I mean, it's a fact, sure as day follows night, sure as eggs is eggs, sure as every odd-numbered Star Trek movie is shit. @callmetomservo | |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. May 29 2012 05:25. Posts 31 | Profile # |
| I open hatch first on metal, which I feel is the smallest map on ladder at the moment, the overlord should be able to scout the pool timings, and if he's not close by air you can always see when the lings are coming with your two overlords . (: |
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| AndySCWilson June 03 2012 09:35. Posts 41 | Profile # |
Can you provide some standard timings?
I looked at the replay, but it looked like the timings had to be decided a bit on the fly, with all his ling/baneling aggression.
Can you give us some good general bookmarks?
And maybe some bookmarks when against different types of play?
-Andy |
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| michaelhasanalias Korea (South). June 03 2012 10:10. Posts 1230 | Profile # |
| How do you hotkey your nyduses? or do you use camera hotkeys? |
| | KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players |
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| TommyP United States. June 03 2012 11:14. Posts 5065 | Profile # |
| Lately ive seen most people refraining from Muta play and now infestors are seen in like every zvz. |
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| will.pity Australia. June 03 2012 11:51. Posts 88 | Profile # |
| Thanks for posting this, it looks pretty solid and I would love to incorporate more nydus in my game. Whilst I feel like this build is something which if scouted can be stopped it is not easy to stop, and most players will not be expecting the speed with which you can snipe key infrastructure. Looking forward to giving this a go and using nydus lategame in many more matchups. |
| | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2202857/1/pity/ |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. June 05 2012 01:46. Posts 31 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 09:35 AndySCWilson wrote:
Can you provide some standard timings?
I looked at the replay, but it looked like the timings had to be decided a bit on the fly, with all his ling/baneling aggression.
Can you give us some good general bookmarks?
And maybe some bookmarks when against different types of play?
-Andy
Haha, yeah. I originally didn't plan on using it in the game, It was from a tournament in was in and the build isn't fully refined yet, so I felt it would've been risky. General timings are, 2 gas first around 5:20, until you can get enough queens 2-4 and around 2 spines to secure your expo so you won't lose to mass ling, and you'd want to sim city your natural around 6minutes, earlier if your overlord scouts no/little drones in his expo.
Start your lair at first 100 gas from the two gases in your main. Second 100 and 150 gas should go towards your roach +1/1 . While waiting for your lair to finish, just pump roaches from your fully saturated 2 base, with 4 gases. You'll want to start roach speed next, and after about 16+ roaches, start the nydus. This is because incase he did a roach ling push, you won't have 200 wasted gas on a nydus, instead of 8 roaches to defend the early push.Timings are static because ZvZ is really aggression based.So if he attacked you with a heavy ling push early on, you wouldn't want to be getting all your gases at 5:20, maybe wait a bit until you have more drones, etc. You should have your nydus finished in either their third area/main base with +1/1, speed, burrow, and constant roach production.
This is just an outline of what I currently use, the build isn't fully refined yet. But as I improve it, i'll update the guide. Comments on your successes using certain timings, etc. are appreciated too.Last edit: 2012-06-05 01:48:36 |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. June 05 2012 01:49. Posts 31 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 10:10 michaelhasanalias wrote:
How do you hotkey your nyduses? or do you use camera hotkeys?
I use 5 for my nydus, It just feels comfortable to me. |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. June 05 2012 01:52. Posts 31 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 11:51 will.pity wrote:
Thanks for posting this, it looks pretty solid and I would love to incorporate more nydus in my game. Whilst I feel like this build is something which if scouted can be stopped it is not easy to stop, and most players will not be expecting the speed with which you can snipe key infrastructure. Looking forward to giving this a go and using nydus lategame in many more matchups.
It's hard to scout while you have 4+ queens out, and even if scouted, the third is really easy to snipe most of the time just because you can basically place it anywhere close-by, but not in vision of the hatch. Many overlords are placed over paths for lings, seeing your roaches, etc. But if they do manage the appropriate scouting, perfect overlord spread, etc. You can just get a little later third, expand to a forth before him, and connect your 4th base with a nydus, so if he ever tries to harass it, you'll have the ability to pull your army from a counter attack, and back to your 4th/3rd via nydusing beside your army after you kill his third while he moves out to attack you. The nydus can be placed at the third too if you feel like you won't be able to unload fast enough at the 4th with his army there, but if you have spine crawlers + infestors you're golden. |
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| SmexMyPocky Canada. June 05 2012 01:55. Posts 31 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 11:14 TommyP wrote:
Lately ive seen most people refraining from Muta play and now infestors are seen in like every zvz.
Yeah, I've noticed that recently too, but it's been unstable for a long time. There will always be Mutalisk players. I like to get infestors so that when you unload, unload the first so you can fungal-field the ramp, stopping all movement of their army while you clear out the main. ^^; Only works after the first couple of nydus harass though, as you want to spend all your initial gas on the mass roach/upgrade/nydus. I tend to start the infestors after establishing a saturated 3rd, finished 4th. |
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| Probe1 United States. June 05 2012 02:32. Posts 16445 | Profile Blog # |
I just tried this on ladder and it was a lot of fun. Read that again. It was fun. Wow, zvz I never knew you could be like this 
Thanks for the interesting use of a underused building. |
| | 우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by | |
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| Turbogangsta Australia. September 20 2012 14:56. Posts 305 | Profile Blog # |
I imagine that a hard counter to this build would be having map control and just patrolling 3-4 lings around your main and outside your 3rd so they have no where to place their nydus. Since its not in the meta game I don't think anyone would do this if they didn't actually scout the nydus. Defiantly a great build to abuse in our meta game still.
Tells of this build would be the delayed 3rd in which you would want to send an overlord in and then if you cannot scout any tech patroll those lings around your base and you would also have to build extra queens to prepare for the possibility of mutas. I imagine the nydus hits before the enemy has speed for his roaches? This would make it very difficult to defend should e nydus get up but if it did then patrolling a unit or two in the main/at 3rd would have to be a top priority to kill the follow up nydus. |
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