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Radfield  Canada. May 30 2012 10:02. Posts 2681 | Profile # |
| He's got spider mines.... you're in trouble.... |
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| kitaman27 United States. May 30 2012 10:22. Posts 4576 | Profile Blog # |
| Role PMs will be going out shortly. Please no posting until the game has begun. Thanks! |
| | Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff. |
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| kitaman27 United States. May 30 2012 11:41. Posts 4576 | Profile Blog # |
Selection Phase
"Today! We, explorers unite!"
"YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!"
"Let's Party!"
"Everybody now dance! Everybody now yell!"
"Ughhhhh..... AM I DRUNK PEWPEL?!!!!?!? AMIDRUNK?!??!!?!?? UGHBGFDHUSGSKUHD"
Anyway, after the festivities the explorers (who recently found something) is soon(tm) going to FINALLY enter a random portal they found, there was some Portal 2 loving guy in the explorers raving everytime about
"PEOPLE! GLADOS FRY US IF WE GO THERE!"
But everyone simply ignored him, even though, he was serious as well. The portal they found was oddly colored blue, making the Portal 2 loving guy rave even more, but, they found something else when they entered it.
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they found a Black Portal! Anyway, from some random tower in the plains a witch was madly giggling about some people FINALLY going into his trap! (note: yes he is a male witch). The fail the witch is, the traps in the portal were decided by the people in it, oh and I forgot to mention, they can't get out. only way is to eliminate the baddies from the group or the baddies eliminating the goodies!
Also, for some reason the baddies could pick some hillarious powers and vice versa, we wish them luck! may the worst man lose!
By the way, don't derp this up, some reporters got dem hidden cameras! we'll be watching you and giggling aside everyone! (note: its being broadcasted in every TV channel till one side wins ;D)
So, good luck!
Credit to bluelightz for the flavor text. (I question his sanity)
It is now the role picking phase. You have less than 23.5 hours to submit your role section votes to Bluelightz and Myself. Additionally, you must vote in the voting thread for the day one poison. Your options include:
-Lynch locks once majority is reached.
-Voting is done using a secret ballot
-The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote
-The lynch is replaced with a mayoral election who decides the days lynch
-The role and alignment for the lynch are hidden
-Majority + 1 is required for a sucessful lynch
-The day cycle is shortened to 24 hours
Last edit: 2012-05-30 11:45:36 |
| | Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff. |
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| talismania United States. May 30 2012 11:50. Posts 2364 | Profile Blog # |
An idea I had pregame:
1) It is useful to know which mafia role we elect, yet
2) Deciding ahead of time publicly gives them an advantage in picking the town roles.
To get around this quandary, I suggest we encrypt our vote selections for mafia role, and post the encrypted results. I haven't exactly googled but I assume there are websites that do that (I heard this technique referenced in the pick your poison game). Then after the selection phase we post the keys, and we can subsequently tally the votes. The primary usefulness is that it reveals what mafia role is in play. Secondarily it has the benefit of forcing scum to lie, which could be situationally useful later: e.g. we elect GF as scum role with RB in close second. Then someone gets RB'd (for the sake of argument, let's say it's an innocent child for best case scenario). Now we know that someone who voted GF is scum, as the scum can't vote for their own role, and therefore their vote wouldn't count.
Thoughts? |
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| HiroPro United States. May 30 2012 11:52. Posts 2151 | Profile # |
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.
Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between.
For the poisons, since there are 7 poisons, and without medic saves the longest the game can go is 5 days, certain poisons should never really be considered. "Voting is done using a secret ballot" is really bad for town and is probably the one poison in my opinion that should never be chosen. "The role and alignment for the lynch are hidden" is a pretty bad poison for town and except when the upcoming day is lylo, it shouldn't be voted for.
"The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority+1 is required for a succesful lynch" are two poisons that are really bad in late game scenarios and tolerable early on, so they should be among the first poisons to be picked. One of them should be considered today, personally.
"The lynch is replaced with a mayoral election who decides the days lynch" and "The day cycle is shortened to 24 hours" are personally ones that are ok later on, but really bad in the beginning as later on people will have strong town reads to vote for mayor and in the case of an innocent child being in the game they are a perfect mayor candidate and day shortening is not as bad when there are less people to analyze and choose from.
"Lynch locks once majority is reached" isn't too bad - people just have to remember to not vote until the very end, just say what you are thinking about voting for when you would normally make a vote, but don't actually do it.
Also, epic bluelightz flavor is back from LIII lol. <3 |
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| Zephirdd Brazil. May 30 2012 11:52. Posts 4520 | Profile Blog # |
K lets do this.
first of all, pick Godfather or Framer as the mafia role. Framer is 2-shot so its hard to be used effectively, as well as forces mafia to pick DT roles for us. Godfather only works on one player and forces a tracker pick. IMO framer is the weaker by a thin margin.
also, pick majority+1 for poison IMO. Its up to discussion, but I believe that is the weakest of the poisons forday 1.
now I'll go to sleep. |
| | ♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥ |
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| HiroPro United States. May 30 2012 11:56. Posts 2151 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 11:50 talismania wrote:
An idea I had pregame:
1) It is useful to know which mafia role we elect, yet
2) Deciding ahead of time publicly gives them an advantage in picking the town roles.
To get around this quandary, I suggest we encrypt our vote selections for mafia role, and post the encrypted results. I haven't exactly googled but I assume there are websites that do that (I heard this technique referenced in the pick your poison game). Then after the selection phase we post the keys, and we can subsequently tally the votes. The primary usefulness is that it reveals what mafia role is in play. Secondarily it has the benefit of forcing scum to lie, which could be situationally useful later: e.g. we elect GF as scum role with RB in close second. Then someone gets RB'd (for the sake of argument, let's say it's an innocent child for best case scenario). Now we know that someone who voted GF is scum, as the scum can't vote for their own role, and therefore their vote wouldn't count.
Thoughts?
I think it's a good idea. I had the same issue with the votes for mafia roles, and wasn't sure how to approach it. I don't know how much we can really figure out whether people are scum or not using this, but it's definitely good to have an idea of what mafia role is in the game. |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 30 2012 12:09. Posts 7942 | Profile Blog # |
I think we should have a mayoral election for day 1, or maybe even day 2.
We'll probably have to use it eventually since it looks like one of the least mafia-favored poisons on the list. I don't mind the mafia +1 secret vote as well, as long as we find out where it went after lynch.
If we choose the secret vote for mafia option, do we find out where the vote went after the lynch?
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| HiroPro United States. May 30 2012 12:11. Posts 2151 | Profile # | |
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| Navillus United States. May 30 2012 12:13. Posts 1120 | Profile # |
| Yeah we'll have to use it eventually but if it's one of the least mafia favored then we should probably save it for a day when we can't risk anything worse. Personally I think we should either use mafia get a vote or it takes majority +1 today |
| | "TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa |
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| HiroPro United States. May 30 2012 12:14. Posts 2151 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 12:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
I think we should have a mayoral election for day 1, or maybe even day 2.
We'll probably have to use it eventually since it looks like one of the least mafia-favored poisons on the list. I don't mind the mafia +1 secret vote as well, as long as we find out where it went after lynch.
If we choose the secret vote for mafia option, do we find out where the vote went after the lynch?
I don't really agree with having a mayoral election early on. Early on is personally when it's hardest to identify someone as being town, especially in a setup like this, where so much time is going to be spent discussing setup in the beginning. This is when it's easiest for mafia to appear town, without actually doing anything. |
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| slOosh May 30 2012 12:15. Posts 1921 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 11:52 Zephirdd wrote:
K lets do this.
first of all, pick Godfather or Framer as the mafia role. Framer is 2-shot so its hard to be used effectively, as well as forces mafia to pick DT roles for us. Godfather only works on one player and forces a tracker pick. IMO framer is the weaker by a thin margin.
also, pick majority+1 for poison IMO. Its up to discussion, but I believe that is the weakest of the poisons forday 1.
now I'll go to sleep.
I want to discuss this. At first it seemed like a novel idea that had good merits - pick to force scum to choose for us. However, if they have godfather, tracker is a role we don't want, as they can just send their kills through the gf and tracker can only track the other blue maybe.
Roleblocker is an interesting that shouldn't be immediately dismissed in my opinion. If someone is a strong blue, why wouldn't you immediately shoot them?
As for the poisons, I'm in general consensus with HiroPro that you can kind of allot them according to game phase (early, mid, late) to reduce the damage each poison costs. |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 30 2012 12:17. Posts 7942 | Profile Blog # |
well, I think it might be hard to predict, but if we think all the poisons will be used then the optimal play would be to use majority+1 for today.
That option becomes more mafia favored as the days go on, getting to the point where it's an auto loss in any lylo situation.
If we think we can win without using all the options then we should never consider that and use the most town favored ones. |
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| Navillus United States. May 30 2012 12:17. Posts 1120 | Profile # |
| Also I'm fine with the encrypt idea but to be safe everyone needs to choose a real word or phrase as their key because if scum wanted to really put the work in they could choose a gibberish key, post the result, then figure out what gibberish key would take that result into the other vote, so make the key an actual word or phrase. Also make sure your vote isn't just the name of the position obviously because then they just count the letters, make it something longer like "my vote is for X as mafia position". |
| | "TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa |
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| Navillus United States. May 30 2012 12:19. Posts 1120 | Profile # |
| That's not as bad as no flip or secret ballot, I think those should not be used, other than those I think we should get rid of the worst late game ones we have left. |
| | "TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa |
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| slOosh May 30 2012 12:24. Posts 1921 | Profile # |
| WBG could you explain how we should approach the use of the mayoral lynch poison when/should we use it? |
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| HiroPro United States. May 30 2012 12:24. Posts 2151 | Profile # |
So something like this is what I think the poison order should be (I say 1a and 1b because I think they have similar effects early on and are both not too bad):
1a. Majority + 1 is required for a sucessful lynch
1b. The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote
2.Lynch locks once majority is reached.
3.The lynch is replaced with a mayoral election who decides the days lynch
4.The day cycle is shortened to 24 hours
5.The role and alignment for the lynch are hidden (ok, since it's lylo 
NEVER: Voting is done using a secret ballot
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| slOosh May 30 2012 12:48. Posts 1921 | Profile # |
The majority + 1 can be considered the "no-poison" option, as right now majority is defined #players/2 rounded up, opposed to the usual (or at least what I'm used to) #players /2 + 1. We want to reduce the total damage for the poisons, not just pick the least damaging for each day, since as WBG has pointed out, some poisons get stronger as the days go on and picking them early on to avoid having to use them later on is a viable strategy.
I'm thinking about the lynch-lock poison. As long as people are aware the poison is in effect, and we use FOS for D1 to denote intent, and the additional benefit of the selection phase discussions will help avoid the dangers of the poison, which I think gets stronger over time with the potential of dangerous hammers (basically a killer at lylo as one wrong vote = lose). |
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| HiroPro United States. May 30 2012 12:49. Posts 2151 | Profile # |
So thinking about the difference between "The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority + 1 is required for a successful lynch", I think "The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" should be the choice for day 1. Why?
"The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" is personally not that strong when there are an even number of voters (like tomorrow) since votes will generally be at their closest 7-5, assuming that people don't no-lynch. Incidentally no-lynches are REALLY bad in this setup, as it increases the chances of us getting the awful "Voting is done using a secret ballot" poison. In a 7-5 situation, the secret hidden vote is worthless and does nothing.
In a situation with an odd number of voters (which can happen as a result of medic saves, vig shots, no-lynches), eg. 4-3, the secret hidden vote can be powerful as it can lead to a no-lynch.
So I think people should be choosing between these two poisons for tomorrow: "The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority + 1 is required for a successful lynch", but "The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" is my choice for tomorrow, with "Majority+1" being for day 2. |
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| slOosh May 30 2012 13:04. Posts 1921 | Profile # |
I like that reasoning HiroPro, but it makes the assumption that we will be split between 2 candidates. No doubt that mafia will play to the poison, adopting a playstyle that abuses said poisons for their advantage. The secret hidden vote poison is most powerful when there are multiple suspects / lynch candidates, and weakest when the town as a total is consolidated and not near lylo.
I'm inclined to think that D1 is the easiest day to fissure the town and bring up multiple lynch suspects and split votes, and potentially drive the fear of no-lynch into guide town into a mislynch. It will probably be a weaker poison on D2 where it is more difficult to bring up serious lynch candidates, opposed to D1 when bringing up anyone is all cool and no reason for suspicion.
Right now it is even number, and unless we get a medic prot (which is great), then with one lynch and one night kill we will have even number D2. Thoughts on the lynch lock?
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