[H] PvT Beating the 1-1-1 or Mech Compositions

Note: THIS IS NOT A THREAD ASKING HOW TO BEAT 1-1-1.

So I can usually hold off the 1-1-1 when it comes at me. What I have trouble with is defeating the same comp off of 2 or 3 bases (basically mech with some banshees mixed in). The comp is mostly siege tanks with a few banshees mixed in, as well as a few marines.

Ex Game: http://drop.sc/187829

In this game I hold it off for a long while but it runs me over after he keeps coming with reinforcements and multiple attacks. Is my comp good for this, or should I be focussing on some other unit. (I know I had lots of gas and need to work on my macro, but his macro was about the same. I am not looking for a "Macro Better" Answer, I know that, and I am working on it, I am looking for what comp I should be going for in this situation).

NOTE: I know I am horrible and built my stuff out in front of my base, and I should not do that... I thought he was zerg

Last edit: 2012-05-29 05:00:24

IHertz United States. May 29 2012 05:50. Posts 66

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Help please!

Foks United States. May 29 2012 07:32. Posts 71

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Your opening is a bit awkward, especially your building placement vs T. 2g expand has little value unless ur being aggressive w/ it. 1g xpo or die trying imo. At 10 minutes into the game here is roughly wher eyou are:

-30 - 35 probes ~. You should have anywehre from 47-60 at thsi point in the game.
-Your tech is robo/charge and no collossi. Collossi is the answer to this compoisition with mostly lstalkers, some zealots despite blue flame, and archons/immortals off 3 base.

Then you didnt A-move into the engagement despite you and your oopponent being relatiely equal.

GrassEater Sweden. May 29 2012 07:53. Posts 416

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I watched the replay and there is not much else then macro better then i could tell you. He had horrible, but better macro and was ahead in food in most fights but your composition kept you alive some times.

Toss air is not allways good because of the possibility of vikings. Zealots immortals and ht when they have to many marines or banshees which wasn't the case this game.

One other tips is to scout his buildings with the observer just seeing a tank and 10 marines don't tell everything like if he 1-1-1 or expanded banshees? And do some standard opening your would die to 2 rax and is as economical as an 4 gate that expands instead of attacks.

You can see his race in the top right corner.

I sometimes see that you right clicks enemy units with your entire army. You can select only all immortals by controllclicking them, so you dont need to disturb the rest of the units.

-Kira May 29 2012 08:06. Posts 352

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On May 29 2012 04:59 IHertz wrote:
I am looking for what comp I should be going for in this situation

HT's with storm, zealots with charge and stalkers with blink If he's going marine/tank/banshee.

Also include your league/rank next time please, because up to diamond your composition doesn't really matter.

User was warned for this post

IHertz United States. May 29 2012 08:16. Posts 66

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On May 29 2012 07:32 Foks wrote:
Your opening is a bit awkward, especially your building placement vs T. 2g expand has little value unless ur being aggressive w/ it. 1g xpo or die trying imo. At 10 minutes into the game here is roughly wher eyou are:

-30 - 35 probes ~. You should have anywehre from 47-60 at thsi point in the game.
-Your tech is robo/charge and no collossi. Collossi is the answer to this compoisition with mostly lstalkers, some zealots despite blue flame, and archons/immortals off 3 base.

Then you didnt A-move into the engagement despite you and your oopponent being relatiely equal.

My opening is not my default opening, I always try to 1 gate expand, but like I said I thought it was Zerg so it came off extremely awkwardly.

When I go collosi I tend to outright lose to this composition, I do not know why, however this is the best chance I have had against beating it.

On May 29 2012 07:53 GrassEater wrote:
I watched the replay and there is not much else then macro better then i could tell you. He had horrible, but better macro and was ahead in food in most fights but your composition kept you alive some times.

Toss air is not allways good because of the possibility of vikings. Zealots immortals and ht when they have to many marines or banshees which wasn't the case this game.

One other tips is to scout his buildings with the observer just seeing a tank and 10 marines don't tell everything like if he 1-1-1 or expanded banshees? And do some standard opening your would die to 2 rax and is as economical as an 4 gate that expands instead of attacks.

You can see his race in the top right corner.

I sometimes see that you right clicks enemy units with your entire army. You can select only all immortals by controllclicking them, so you dont need to disturb the rest of the units.

I know you can see race, I was just not quite thinking then for some reason.

On May 29 2012 08:06 -Kira wrote:

Show nested quote +

So no Immortal?...and I will try this out.

My rank Platinum Rank 2, I play diamond about 60% of the time though, so I am getting into the diamond levels.

Crow! United States. May 30 2012 01:52. Posts 144

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The reason most Terrans don't make higher tech stuff in TvP is that Protoss tech beats it. Zealot charge, blink so you can avoid the choke points that the Tanks are actually protecting, Colossi parked just outside of siege range so the tanks can only move across the map at a snail's pace, warp prisms to drop anything (Zealots and Immortals are the usual suspects) on top of a tank cluster. Heck, even Phoenixes do pretty well, especially if he's going heavy on the Banshees (unless he starts adding Thors, in which case you can go carriers for the win (I have), which is hilarious). Templar are less good as they're pretty easy to pick off, but Archons are still game.

There is a critical mass beyond which tanks can laugh off massed Immortals by just shelling them to death as they try to get in range. You can still go the Immortal route, just don't go charging into the most entrenched Terran position unless you can get an epic spread to avoid splash (and maybe have Zealots to tank until you get in range to shoot). And don't send Immortals in unless you have an answer to the marines and banshees alongside them.

Just don't forget basic strategy - if the opponent turtles, punish with expanding, teching, and harassing. Tanks are strongest when defending, so make sure your opponent has to work hard to move them out.

HoMM Estonia. May 30 2012 02:47. Posts 561

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Scout how heavy on banshees he is going. If he is getting a higher banshee count (2starport or more) I strongly recommend you to get a starport or two depending on the state of the game.
If you scout a fast armory, he will add thors into the mix, which means using your robo for immortals is great. Adding a 2nd robo is also a good idea vs mechy styles.
Charge is kind-of a must-have if he is doing anything off of 2bases and has more than 2 tanks.

I watched the replay, other than the basic macro mistakes which other people pointed out already (and he did outmacro you which is also a huge reason why u lost) you also had a bad engagement.

By the time the push arrives you could have with good 2base macro (and im underestimating):
- 2 or 3 colo with range upgrade done and 20 gateway units
- 4 immortals, at least 20-25 gateway units, charge done
Try to have a few sentries (3-5), and try to get a bit fewer stalkers if possible, just make sure you're always just able to deal with the threat of air units.

You lost a lot of your army by movecommanding it, your sentries didnt guardianshield and died fast, and a few other things.
1.) Prepare army before battle: position your zealots in the front, sentries/immos in the middle, stalkers in the back. If you have colo then just make sure they are in the back if your opponent has vikings.
2.) Guardianshield, a-move
3.) The rest of the micro, such as unclumping units, microing back injured colossi, forcefield if needed

Hopefully this was helpful. (:

Last edit: 2012-05-30 02:55:20

HoMM.998 | Masters protoss, I'm looking for a clan/team/practise partners, msg me (:

Brolettuce United States. May 30 2012 21:05. Posts 45

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as a protoss,
i feel like this is the time that you need to be the aggressor,
if hes on 2+ base and is going w/ a mech/air comp,
i feel like the best thing to do is while ur getting a good immortal/colossus/ht count depending on exactly what hes getting,
ur gonna have 30+ blink stlakers going around to his bases, harassing and denying his expansions, since his army will be very immobile, to taking 15-20 to his main and blinking up and the other half of ur stalkers to 3/4, even if he has a pf, u can snipe the gases which is very important for mech players and also sometimes even the pf if u blink back etc and snipe scvs

u need to widdle him down
also u need to make sure u have a good amount of obs w/ ur army, as a good terran whose banshee heavy, will scan and snipe ur only obs w/ his thors, so his banshees will rain hell on you when u have no obs

the only time u will have trouble verus terran will be somebody whose all bc/ghost

also,
DONT BLINK ON TANKS
worst possible thing u can do
just concave and surround if u only have stalkers

Last edit: 2012-05-30 21:09:10

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sircoolguy United States. May 31 2012 16:38. Posts 47

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Plat Terran, so take this for what you will. So the build I've tried is a gasless 1rax FE into 2 gas 1 more rax and then factories away. So at first it looks kinda standard with lots of rines except I get some tanks for defense. Well something I had issues with when doing a TvP mech with a buddy (and by issues I mean I got raped) were pheonixes. This might seem a bit odd, but I was going pure mech after my opening and suprisingly Thors don't destroy pheonixes too fast (granted in the match we played he had quite a few of the pheonixes). The frustrating thing was the graviton beam did a great job of lifting and making the sieged tanks useless. Naturally this allowed him to do push into my army, because he doesn't have to worry about gateway units getting destroyed by tanks, they are dead and he can now comfortably push into my army. These might also help with banshees a bit if you have an obs in the area. Just make sure he doesn't mass up vikings and ravens as these could make this idea pretty bad (I'm assuming PDD stops pheonix shots), but I don't think anyone can afford a big mech army with banshee, viking, and raven until very late game as these units besides hellions are pretty gas intensive and would require quite a few production facilities to effectively pump a good amount of all these units out. A few things about HT and immortals, I would ditch immortals if he adds even a few ghosts because your hardened shields can die from well placed emps which would probably get them killed pretty fast with tanks and Thors and basically everything they are supposed to counter. Be careful with HTs, they can be great with FB and storm if you get them off (storm killing scvs/damaging hellions tanks a bit FB for thors/energy units) but tanks out range everything you have and HT move slow so a few things could happen to them. 1) Tanks kill them, though this might be avoided if you send some immortals up front first to take the blows from siege, but if he has mass tanks I wouldn't risk it. 2) BFH, basically will destroy HT if you are a little lazy with the micro. From a terran stand point it's better to sac a few hellions to fry your HT becasue they cost only mins and can be made fast. Plus they move a lot faster than HT so it's pretty easy to snipe them if you move them outside your death ball. 3) Emp, this is standard to emp HT in bio but I think emping HT isn't as big of a deal because storm isn't as powerful versus mech due to high HP and so I'd worry less about HT being emp'd than saw all your units becasue this makes die a lot faster to tank splash. Lastly I'm not claiming to be good at mech TvP at all so again take this advice for what you will. All this is stuff I've either experienced or thought about when practicing with a diamond protoss, so by no means was it high level play, but I think it did a good job of showing problems with the standard PvT army vs bio and the issues with TvP mech. I can add replays if you want but they really aren't that great.

Last edit: 2012-05-31 16:42:05

Yoshi Kirishima United States. May 31 2012 16:49. Posts 9002

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On May 29 2012 08:06 -Kira wrote:

Show nested quote +

doesn't "really" matter?

we could all wish we somehow could focus our effort on macro'ing perfectly during a game, but it just doesn't happen
a person conciously choosing to pick lets say, making ghosts instead of vikings vs colossi... he's going to have think about it either way

but macro'ing better? that takes more effort

Last edit: 2012-05-31 16:49:27

Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."

-Switch- Canada. May 31 2012 17:12. Posts 423

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collosus, immortal, zealot , pheonix ( only enough to deal with banshee ) or ht if they are going thors as well.

User was warned for this post

Last edit: 2012-05-31 17:13:40

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